Would you prefer faction neutrality over all out war?

[Hotsforyou]

I would love it if they allowed is to "defect" on a toon. It would have to be leveled from lvl 1 or whatever level they start at. Then a lengthy quest chain at max lvl to defect to the other faction. All i want is a Human paladin on Horde. I hate the Horde Paladin races

[Omedon]

I would love it if they allowed is to "defect" on a toon. It would have to be leveled from lvl 1 or whatever level they start at. Then a lengthy quest chain at max lvl to defect to the other faction. All i want is a Human paladin on Horde. I hate the Horde Paladin races

Let us arrange a trade. I desperately want an alliance elf paladin haha!

[Echiyo]

Other: I want conflict, but not outright war.

[Detheavn]

Can't we just implement the faction betrayal april fools thing?
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Betrayal-Quest

[Camthur]

I play both. My main is Alliance and 8 out of my 12 characters are, but I try to look at things from both sides. (I usually fail horribly and end up on the Alliance side of whatever the argument is)

The thing I wanted rid of was the weird middle ground crap they've done for a while. (not really fighting, not really friends) I wanted it either to just be completely over or for them to go at it full speed again. I'm happy they decided to finally go in a solid direction with the story again. Like I said, I wouldn't have been heartbroken if the next expansion had started with "Peace has finally broken out between the two sides and a new era of cooperation has begun." If done right, all out war could be fun too though.

I'm gonna be ticked off though if we do some little dance around being enemies and go back to status quo by the end of the expansion. Just how many people have to die and places get destroyed before they realize it's never gonna be good between the two sides?

[Lane]

Wish you'd added an option for those of us who play both. I prefer everyone having their own principles and agenda. It's why I favored the DK (DH to a lesser extent) and rogue campaigns in Legion, they had their own thing going on and faction lines be damned. That's what I'd like to see more of, so I'm disappointed it's back to the simplistic Red vs. Blue. The world is far more complex than that and has been for a long time.

[SylviaDragon]

I play both sides. My main is ally because that's simply the faction that was tied to my favorite race but i have no loyalty to either side of that coin. Its a game. A game where i will swap out colors depending on which friends need me at the moment.

From a gameplay standpoint I never cared about the faction divide. Honestly I would prefer races to start out neutral and then you could choose your faction regardless of race + could group up/talk cross faction with your friends.

from a RP standpoint my characters are mercenaries looking for new thrills. They have fought enough faction wars to have lost interest in them by now in favor of more interesting challenges. They would roll their eyes in exasperation at the sight of seeing the two factions throwing tantrums again.

from a story standpoint it just makes no sense to me. After working together in Legion, having shared encounters like the broken shore event, the Aliance being ruled by a peace loving king, and having peaceful, successful class halls that span the devide- hearing that we are back to faction war again while the planet is literally bleeding out just sounds bad. I mean i'm sure near the end they will pull back a curtain and be like "haha! tis me, a old god! I pull strings whole time!" but still....bleh. not again.

[Adamas102]

The big two faction war is fucking stupid, but rogue militias/tribes and racial conflicts centered around particular regions can certainly be interesting.

[Omedon]

I play both. My main is Alliance and 8 out of my 12 characters are, but I try to look at things from both sides. (I usually fail horribly and end up on the Alliance side of whatever the argument is)

The thing I wanted rid of was the weird middle ground crap they've done for a while. (not really fighting, not really friends) I wanted it either to just be completely over or for them to go at it full speed again. I'm happy they decided to finally go in a solid direction with the story again. Like I said, I wouldn't have been heartbroken if the next expansion had started with "Peace has finally broken out between the two sides and a new era of cooperation has begun." If done right, all out war could be fun too though.

I'm gonna be ticked off though if we do some little dance around being enemies and go back to status quo by the end of the expansion. Just how many people have to die and places get destroyed before they realize it's never gonna be good between the two sides?

Sorry to tell you, but that dance around is crucial to the life of the game. The faction war cannot be the whole story arc because it can't end in either side losing. We have to turn to a PVE focus (hopefully for good) by the end of the expansion because neither group of PCs (Player characters or Paying customers) should be told they "lost ultimately," particularly given the necessarily choice-less flow of the story.

[Camthur]

Sorry to tell you, but that dance around is crucial to the life of the game. The faction war cannot be the whole story arc because it can't end in either side losing. We have to turn to a PVE focus (hopefully for good) by the end of the expansion because neither group of PCs (Player characters or Paying customers) should be told they "lost ultimately," particularly given the necessarily choice-less flow of the story.

I don't mind if we aren't sending armies at the end of the expansion. I just don't wanna go back to the lie that "oh, we can totally be friends now and can forget all the awful stuff that happened". I don't want to be at the end of the expansion and magically, Teldrassil is somehow still the home of the Night Elves and somehow the Forsaken took back Undercity. While one side can never really "win" the war, there should be lasting signs that we fought.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

This is simply not true. I don't understand why it is brought up so much? Look at the games:
WC1 Orcs & Humans. A shitty game with 100% mirrored units. It was OK for the time. Is it fun to play today? NO. No story, bad gameplay, GFX that gets you eye cancer.
WC2 ToD & BtDP: Great game. Lot's of story. Faction war? Yes. But what was the story twist that made it interesting? Gul'dans betrayal. So Horde vs Legion. And even while WC2 was a really, really good game...i would not play it again. 100% mirrored units (except 2) do not make for intesting gameplay.
WC3 RoC + TfT: One of the best RTS of all time, even in current rankings that downgrade it for its outdated GFX. Still a lot of fun to play. Great story telling in the missions. It features slight faction rivalry, but NO FUCKING WAR. At the hear and soul of the game are the stories of Thrall, Jaina, Arthas, Tyrande, Illidan, Malfurion and Maiev. In the TfT Orc campaign is the most which you could call a "faction war"....except it is Jaina in the end that saves Orgrimmar. Something the Horde has been VERY grateful for ever since.

If Blizzard had made the movie about Arthas or even War of the Ancients it would have been a much, much larger success than the shitty retelling of a story that was shitty to begin with.

You're moving away from the thread, but let me assess something right off the bat: You're talking about Orcs vs Humans, not Alliance vs Horde - even if the movie tried to paint it as such. Orcs vs Humans is essentially... well, boring.

Horde versus Alliance, however, is a war filled with gray areas. The lore behind it thrives on that, if only you bothered to read about it. The whole origin of Thrall is bound to that very faction anymosity. In fact, his very name, Thrall, is the embodiement of his suffering as a slave within the keep of Durnholde. The alliance, being - borderline - zealous in their pursuit of the light, denied the forsaken a chance to prove themselves and shunned them as abominations.

I state these two because they're important to the lore behind BfA. Sylvannas vengeance was first toward the Lich King. Upon his defeat, her wounds related to the way the Alliance spat on her and her kin only burned stronger. Mix this with Greymane destroying her only chance to save her kindred...

But then, you have Jaina whom city was annihilated by the horde, people she considered as brothers and sisters. It doesn't matter if Garrosh was behind it all -- the leaders of the Horde all participated in it. Sure, it may not have been their choice, but the outcome is what it is. And then Anduin, whose father was slain because of the Horde... he, just like Jaina, held his hand out to the Horde and the Horde stomped on it. Add Greymane's who lost his city and his son to Sylvannas and her plague, Jaina who lost Theramore -- Two annihilated cities, family and friends annihilated by the same group: The Horde, now led by Sylvannas.

Horde Versus Alliance is not just about killing red or blue. It's about the very lives of these individuals, of which their whole is intricately connected in a way which one cannot truly get rid of the other, yet they cannot completely be together either, ever. And seeing this dynamic of pain but also of joy and concerted effort is what makes WoW what it is.

[Razion]

The reason I'd like to see the faction war put to bed (at least for a while) is because peace time can create a whole bunch of brand new conflicts rather than just doing the same thing over and over again. I'd absolutely adore it if one of the factions definitively won at the end of BfA, and the next expansion focused on the changes that occur as a result. You could have NPCs from one faction occupying the settlements of the other, racial leaders replaced with overseers from the other side, and all sorts of awesome little stories about benevolent overseers who face resistance from the conquered faction, cruel oppressors who want to make their defeated enemies suffer, and splinter groups that break off to terrorise and/or fight for freedom.

It would be such an interesting dynamic to push the Warcraft story forward if they did something like that. The boring thing about the faction war for me is that it never leads anywhere. Even in BfA, where it seems like they're tying to give it some serious consequences, there's still this forced balancing act of "The Horde lose Undercity, so the Alliance lose Darnassus".

Faction war is all well and good, but it's utilised so poorly in WoW that I wish they'd just put it to bed so that they can focus on the other things they do better. BfA feels like their last chance to actually go somewhere with it, but if the expansion ends in another stalemate then they'll have completely run the premise into the ground.

Garrosh was never interesting because of all the peace we had, would be my counter-point. The breadth up to Garrosh's fall was littered with conflict after conflict after conflict. Garrosh and Varian butting heads before Ulduar, ToC, Gunship, Garrosh being a wrecking ball all of Cata, Theramore's destruction, and then all of Mists he went off the crazy deep-end, grabbing the Divine Bell, the Heart, and eventually diving head-first into the crazy Sha soup. Garrosh, is, ultimately, the most villain we've ever had, but he didn't get compelling by sitting on the side-lines.

[Blamblam41]

Pure faction neutrality, like in every other competitive MMO on the market, is the only way for Blizzard to go forward.

Story wise, the 'faction war' is beat to death. Gameplay wise, nothing will ever change save for imaginary goal posts being shifted left and right. PvP-wise you're never going to completely dominate the other faction for some kind of faction-related game end.

The only way to resolve the faction conflict without deleting a faction from the game is for them to neutral out. The paltry faction pride bullshit they are pushing is not a smart direction for the game unless they are using it as a scapegoat for complete neutrality in the future, of which I doubt completely because Blizzard generally does not think two steps ahead for story. Big fucking Atrocity if anything proves everyones WoD fears right.

[Spryte]

The Horde must pay for its crimes!

[Palapop]

I play both. And i want WAR!
Just had 45 mins long AV (yes, I know it used to last for DAYS. I hope we get that thing back with "wow classic"). It was BEAUTIFUL BG with both factions having 200+ HKs. Such a lovely scene. <3
We (ally) won this time, and everyone got like 1500 honor from it

[Blamblam41]

You're moving away from the thread, but let me assess something right off the bat: You're talking about Orcs vs Humans, not Alliance vs Horde - even if the movie tried to paint it as such. Orcs vs Humans is essentially... well, boring.

Horde versus Alliance, however, is a war filled with gray areas. The lore behind it thrives on that, if only you bothered to read about it. The whole origin of Thrall is bound to that very faction anymosity. In fact, his very name, Thrall, is the embodiement of his suffering as a slave within the keep of Durnholde. The alliance, being - borderline - zealous in their pursuit of the light, denied the forsaken a chance to prove themselves and shunned them as abominations.

I state these two because they're important to the lore behind BfA. Sylvannas vengeance was first toward the Lich King. Upon his defeat, her wounds related to the way the Alliance spat on her and her kin only burned stronger. Mix this with Greymane destroying her only chance to save her kindred...

But then, you have Jaina whom city was annihilated by the horde, people she considered as brothers and sisters. It doesn't matter if Garrosh was behind it all -- the leaders of the Horde all participated in it. Sure, it may not have been their choice, but the outcome is what it is. And then Anduin, whose father was slain because of the Horde... he, just like Jaina, held his hand out to the Horde and the Horde stomped on it. Add Greymane's who lost his city and his son to Sylvannas and her plague, Jaina who lost Theramore -- Two annihilated cities, family and friends annihilated by the same group: The Horde, now led by Sylvannas.

Horde Versus Alliance is not just about killing red or blue. It's about the very lives of these individuals, of which their whole is intricately connected in a way which one cannot truly get rid of the other, yet they cannot completely be together either, ever. And seeing this dynamic of pain but also of joy and concerted effort is what makes WoW what it is.

Ahh yes, the Anduin has a reason for animosity against the Horde now because his father died to the Legion.

Did you people ever think for a second we have Draenei shaman that can scry out the fact that Edwin VanCleef has a daughter, but shit like the true purpose behind the Horde's retreat somehow remains a secret?

Defend it all you want, but this faction war is bullshit from the ground up, regardless of how they want to spin it. Most especially after Legion and most especial especially after the fucking planet got stabbed. Should be pulling a Panda starter zone and healing our planet not killing ourselves but you know, #blizzardmoney.

[Chernobyll]

They are showing what will happen but not why it will happen.
That is what we will have to see and take our sides.

[Kaldriss]

i would prefer having pve enabled players being able to communicate and group with the opposite faction, but it will probably never happen

[Archon14]

Well I played DH and DK in Legion, so for me this is all madness pretty much.

Like, why would I join the Alliance (or the Horde) in their fight? I'm the leader of the Ebon Blade ffs. There's no way death knights see their previous factions more important than the order itself.

And the Illidari. Shouldn't all DHs see this war as a giant waste of time? I'm pretty sure that I, as a DH, would just leave Azeroth if they can't be bothered to stop fighting, and lead Illidari to a Legion-controlled planet or something.

[Wondercrab]

Garrosh was never interesting because of all the peace we had, would be my counter-point. The breadth up to Garrosh's fall was littered with conflict after conflict after conflict. Garrosh and Varian butting heads before Ulduar, ToC, Gunship, Garrosh being a wrecking ball all of Cata, Theramore's destruction, and then all of Mists he went off the crazy deep-end, grabbing the Divine Bell, the Heart, and eventually diving head-first into the crazy Sha soup. Garrosh, is, ultimately, the most villain we've ever had, but he didn't get compelling by sitting on the side-lines.

I think Garrosh is a really good example of how you do faction conflict stuff right, but the problem with that was how it all ended. While the MoP storyline was great, it would've been far more interesting to have it end with the Alliance actually winning the war rather than just going home after a few stern words. This is kind of my point about the faction conflict never really leading anywhere. It would've been awesome to see the Horde reeling after SoO, having to slowly rebuild either under the occupation of the Alliance, or with the constant threat of conquest looming over them after having been weakened so severely. But instead nothing happened. We didn't even get a hint that the Horde were in a bad spot, they just went back to normal immediately after, and then two expansions later they're engaging in all-out war with the Alliance again apparently none the worse for wear.

If the faction war led to actual change and development in the story then it'd be awesome. MoP's story flirted with that awesomeness with the Horde civil war, but even that was mostly relegated to patch content and immediately got swept under the rug the moment the expansion was over. I'm really hoping that BfA actually takes some risks and pushes things forward in this regard, but based on the way they've handled this in the past my hopes aren't high. It the expansion ends in a stalemate then it'll have just been another tired excuse for jingoistic flag-waving that leads nowhere. If it ends in everyone learning to be friends again then it's just retreading the same ground as Pandaria. Something bold needs to be done to justify going down this route again. I really hope it's not just Pandaria 2.0 where one of the faction leaders becomes the clear villain and we have to team up to take them down. That idea was great once, but doing it again is just going to be cheap.