Why WoW: Classic Needs the Tweaks.

[MMKing]

Let's be realistic here

Reflecting how many you bring. Warlocks are sort of demanded for various fights, banishing during the Garr fight comes to mind. You also want to bring fewer melee DPS, as there are various mechanics that are more manageable with ranged DPS.

So 4-6 warlocks and 2-3 warrior dps is the usual composition. If you do bring 6 warlocks, you also tend to bring a shadow priest as well. It sort of depends on what is available on your server. Even if you're tryhard min/maxing, you still would rather bring 6 highly skilled warlocks rather than just 4, then maybe cut down on Mages if you can't find good ones.

The same goes the other way. If you can find 4 warrior DPS that all got off-tank gear, running through BRD 10 times a day to get the epic 1H mace, and running to Rend in UBRS 10 times a day to get the dagger. You will obviously make room for those people, and cut down on the less dedicated Rogues.

[Rizart]

Reasons Why Classic WoW was so great and lovable:

1) EXTREMELY REWARDING GAMEPLAY.
-Moneys were earned with the blood and sweat. The more enjoyment we got when we earn the gold.
-Profession were harder to level. The more enjoyment we got when we craft some good items for themselves or auction.
-Items were harder to get. The more enjoyment we got when we get some items from dungeons and professions.
-Dungeons and Raids were harder. The reward we got from bosses felt much more valuable.
-Quests were harder and required more time to do. The more we enjoy their completing and reward.
-Exploring. Hard content, professions and quests motivated us to explore the world which was greatly designed.
-Spell Design. The different level of spells was highly required for an effective healing. That made the class gameplay more interesting and flexible.

2)Focus on socialization.
-No LFG and LFR. People spend their time in chat finding people to do dungeons and raids.
-Hard quests and mobs that required more than 1-2 people to do them and kill them. That allows people to communicate more often and even create bonds.
-Leveling was slower that allows people to spend more time together during questing.
-WPvP was more rough. That makes people to group up and help each other.
-Profession were done the way people needed each other to craft some items or enchant them.
-Raids and Dungeons required communication. Crowd Control required the better coordination.

3)Sense of Progression.
-Talent tree allow people to spent 1 point of talent for 1 level. It makes every level felt earned and rewarded.
-Every new item we earned in dungeon or hard crafting made us significantly stronger.

4)Immersion.
-World Building was great. Location design, visual and music were and are top level.
-Quests had no map markings. That made us read the text and THINK where to go to do the quests.
-Leveling design was done the way that dont make people rush forward. We felt comfortable to do stuff slowly.
-Process > Result. WoW Classic had great pacing. Reaching the cap wasn't the main goal. That allow us to enjoy crafting, gathering, fishing, exploring, trash talking in the inn, do dungeons with friends and stuff.

Thats what made WoW Classic great and THATS WHY we always wanted Blizzard to bring us the Legacy servers.


Now, about the things that has nothing to do with WoW Classic Greatness:

-2004 yo settings. WoW Classic still looks very good and comfortable to stay in. So as do Legion. There are no reasons to not have the update graphic options. Be honest - the water textures until Cata looked really bad. As do cubic trees and bushes.

-Old Models. Left old models the same BUT add an option to use an updated models. Many people including me enjoy old models but there are also many people who liked Classic but prefer the updated models. Why not to do the thing that has nothing to do with WoW Classic greatness?

-Class Balance. I saw no one said: "You know, WoW Classic was great. Paladins were healbots who do shit in other specs, no one wanted Druids even if they went full Restoration, and Arcane mages sucked hard". I saw many people said: "Wow Classic was great because the content felt more rewarding and people communicated with each other much better".
So, there is NO sane reason to keep the Class Balance the same as it was in 2005. There are many people who loved Classic and played feral druids, retri pallies, enhancement shamans without Sulfuras. Why not to make them slightly happier? Did their utter shittiness make WoW Classic great? Absolutely no.
Blizzard should make all class specs playable. Im not asking for global changes like totally new spells and talents. Im asking for numbers tweaks and some changes of talent mechanic for some of the specs to make them competitive.

-Few small interface flaws. I want to see how much hp my teammates or enemy has without Xpearl. That doesnt ruin the gameplay but gives an essential comfort to gameplay.

The things i mentioned above are an essential updates Blizzard need to make in order to make WoW Classic THE SAME but BETTER.

This is actually a VERY compelling argument. I see no reason why a couple of balance changes couldn't be made, or the debuff cap couldn't be removed. Hell, removing the debuff cap on bosses alone would mean that you bring specs that deal damage with DoTs to raids. Having more diversity in the raids and dungeons is a good thing.
Just as long as the core experience is authentic, I dont see a problem with a few small changes here and there. Honestly, whether small changes get made or not, im going to be happy either way, again, as long as the core experience that is on offer is the authentic vanilla experience.

[Taeldorian]

You asked for classic wow. Not “classic wow remastered”. So, now you get classic wow. Stop asking for changes when you’re getting exactly what was asked for.

This is coming from a Paladin main. I’ve been one for almost 10 years. I’ve heard and seen what it was like back then. Yep, there’s a ton of dead specs that nobody wants because others are just so much better. However, that’s the vanilla experience that’s been asked for.

[JustRob]

No, fuck off. If you want balanced classes go play retail.

[AztechZero]

Leave it as is. I managed as ret/enhance back then, I can do it again.

[Nozuka]

the imbalance of the classes in PVP made it sometimes really frustrating but also the most fun for me. can't wait to play it again.

[Perkunas]

You asked for classic wow. Not “classic wow remastered”. So, now you get classic wow. Stop asking for changes when you’re getting exactly what was asked for.

This is coming from a Paladin main. I’ve been one for almost 10 years. I’ve heard and seen what it was like back then. Yep, there’s a ton of dead specs that nobody wants because others are just so much better. However, that’s the vanilla experience that’s been asked for.

Totally agree. I mained multiple classes during Vanilla but I spent the majority of my time on my Holy Paladin. Which I leveled from 10-60 as Holy and loved my role.

[grexly75]

Put it like this if you want vanilla/classic WoW then you have to have it as it was back then, none of the QoL additions we have now, and no class balancing..

Pretty much you will have vanilla/classic WoW warts and all, because as soon as you start changing and adding things to make things better then you no longer have vanilla/classic WoW..

[Perkunas]

Put it like this if you want vanilla/classic WoW then you have to have it as it was back then, none of the QoL additions we have now, and no class balancing..

Pretty much you will have vanilla/classic WoW warts and all, because as soon as you start changing and adding things to make things better then you no longer have vanilla/classic WoW..

Which honestly might be a plan at some point though. Figure they build the hype for the Vanilla release as it was and when people who don't remember Vanilla give it a shot they like lots of the systems but hate the balance. Either create "Pristine Realms" some point down the line to cater to people who like the old systems but hate the balance or slowly slip the RPG elements back into WoW live proper.

[kamuimac]

In all honesty, everyone clamoring for classic/vanilla WoW should just get the last patch of vanilla and be happy with it. People that have begged, asked, and demanded for it talk about how great it is/was. Suddenly they want "improvements." No. That's not the classic WoW that people kept saying is amazing and people will flock to.

guess what - ill be a dick and tell openly

"told you so"

people were always so full of shit when claiming that they want vanilla

[Deleted]

So you don't actually want Classic. Okay, got it.

[Adamas102]

the imbalance of the classes in PVP made it sometimes really frustrating but also the most fun for me. can't wait to play it again.

I imagine the experience will be vastly different this time around since you won't have the same player demographics as true vanilla WoW. You're not going to have all the casual players trying out the hot new MMO that comprised the vast majority of the old playerbase. What you're going to get with Classic WoW is a much more condensed community made up of people who have been playing this game for many years, and I would wager that class imbalance will be even worse in that environment.

[Perkunas]

I imagine the experience will be vastly different this time around since you won't have the same player demographics as true vanilla WoW. You're not going to have all the casual players trying out the hot new MMO that comprised the vast majority of the old playerbase. What you're going to get with Classic WoW is a much more condensed community made up of people who have been playing this game for many years, and I would wager that class imbalance will be even worse in that environment.

The vast majority of people in Vanilla didn't make it to cap. Just as the (REDACTED) servers had people of all classes and specs running about we'll see that here too.

[Deleted]

No class balance/revamp. If you want "bring the player not the class", please go play retail.

[Hottage]

The only thing I feel that can be legit "tweaked" from classic is the graphics and server-breaking bugs.

Everyone wants vanilla gameplay - that's what you should expect.

Vanilla grinding, vanilla balance, vanilla experience.
You want to play as a Fury warrior, Disc Priest or Affliction Warlock in raids? Too bad.
You want to PvP as a Fire mage or Assassination rogue? Too bad.

That's vanilla for you.

[Deleted]

With current WoW science, leaving the imbalance in the game would lead to tremendous class imbalances. There would only be a few classes "viable" for raids. This is why I think class balance should be addressed in Vanilla. They should at least tweak the numbers, but keep abilities the same. People played a wide variety of classes in the 2004 version simply because they didn't know any better.

That´s nothing new. You play Ret/shadow/feral? You wont get items until everyone else has them and on progress you will be benched if someone else shows up. Or remember the good old "we need one lock for curse of elements". Imbalances were also known in classic, we had good theorycrafting too.

[Perkunas]

The only thing I feel that can be legit "tweaked" from classic is the graphics and server-breaking bugs.

Everyone wants vanilla gameplay - that's what you should expect.

Vanilla grinding, vanilla balance, vanilla experience.
You want to play as a Fury warrior, Disc Priest or Affliction Warlock in raids? Too bad.
You want to PvP as a Fire mage or Assassination rogue? Too bad.

That's vanilla for you.

Totally agree with the first part. What I disagree with is Disc Priest not raiding. ZG+ Gear Power Infusion was super viable. I raided with it myself through BWL and into AQ40 before I rerolled Paladin. SM Ruin was a raiding Spec for Warlocks which had the majority of points in Affliction. Seal Fate was a great PVP build for Rogues as well and that was Assassination. 21-8-22 was a split between Assassination and Sub. So I think you got a few builds confused.

[Hottage]

Totally agree with the first part. What I disagree with is Disc Priest not raiding. ZG+ Gear Power Infusion was super viable. I raided with it myself through BWL and into AQ40 before I rerolled Paladin. SM Ruin was a raiding Spec for Warlocks which had the majority of points in Affliction. Seal Fate was a great PVP build for Rogues as well and that was Assassination. 21-8-22 was a split between Assassination and Sub. So I think you got a few builds confused.

I admit, it's been a really long time since I played Vanilla.

[Vofka]

Okay i felt like i finally should make an account and start answering these stupid suggestions about class changes.
What most people here seem do not understand is that there is totally different design philosophy when it comes to class balance. It's based on classes interdependence and on the support class concept. It roots heavily from the previous ancient mmos like Everquest and Dungeons&Dragons rpg system. In other words: classes/specs SHOULD NOT BE EQUAL IN TERMS OF RAW NUMBERS/PERFORMANCE but rather be niches with unique skills and abilities and this is exactly what vanilla handles very well.
So it looks something like this:
Warrior = primary tank/primary dps*
Mage = primary dps
Rogue = primary dps
Warlock = primary dps*/utility guy**
Hunter = primary dps*/utility guy**
Paladin = support
Shaman = support
Druid = support
Priest = primary healer/support

*some gear assembly may be required first
**Despite being pure dps class some very strong utility abilities are present.

So what does it mean to be a support class? It means that your role in a group is to SUPPORT you primary class buddy by providing unique buffs/debuffs or using special abilities. For example:
Retri paladin with nightfall = +1 greater blessing +1 aura +1 judgement debuff +wipe recovery +LoH/BoP +15% spell dmg increase
Shadow priest = 10% shadow spell dmg increase.

Also a good read which can give you an example of a proper support class gameplay:
Аn honest guide to enhancement pve in vanilla: imgur.com/ezeJZHx.jpg

Additional note on druid/paladin tanking:

You are able to tank EVERYTHING expect 40 man raids and you can be actually better than a warrior in some cases. Paladin vs Stratholme = ultimate undead purging experience.

[AeneasBK]

Reflecting how many you bring. Warlocks are sort of demanded for various fights, banishing during the Garr fight comes to mind. You also want to bring fewer melee DPS, as there are various mechanics that are more manageable with ranged DPS.

So 4-6 warlocks and 2-3 warrior dps

Just no. You might take 4 locks to Garr the first few weeks but that fight is infinitely easier to just OT all 8 adds away from the raid and burn Garr down during shield wall. Fact is Warriors and Rogues quite easily put out literally twice as much damage as a warlock in Vanilla. You had one or two locks top to apply CoE for the mages, who again would be doing literally twice as much damage as a warlock.