Macro Functionality on Classic Servers [API Related]

[Veiled Shadow]

Prior to patch 2.0, macro functionality was much more extensive than it was now of course and led to degenerate 1-button gameplay in many cases - viz. macro conditionals making decisions for the player. A simple example would be something like this: /run if GetComboPoints()>=5 then CastSpellByName("Ferocious Bite") else CastSpellByName("Claw") end
where a single macro casts a combo point spender at the optimal point (5 combo points) and a generator otherwise.

I don't think anyone would really disagree that such macros are unhealthy for the depth of gameplay as a whole, which is why they are long gone. However, removing them wouldn't be agnostic to the concept of an untouched Classic server, so I am curious as to whether or not most players would support removal of conditional statements in macros like the above.

This doesn't seem to be as unsuitable to the concept of a Classic server as, say, rebalancing classes, but at the same time it's not wholly agnostic to the concept as mentioned above so I'm curious as to what opinions are on this particular issue.

Some addons from back then (such as some healing addons that cancelled spells if you got sniped etc.) wouldn't work either with the elimination of those API calls/logic.

[Tseng]

This is an interesting topic - its not only related to Macros, but the whole API in general.
In classic the whole LUA API was way more accessible to Addons (and also for macros as in your example), essentially allowing to fully automate the game by "official" means.

If I remember correctly the whole concept of "protected functions" did not exist in the early phases of vanilla and was gradually introduced and extended as more and more "creative automation possibilities" were discovered in the ingame APIs.

It will be interesting indeed how Blizzard decides on this "untouched Vanilla" vs "preventing well known abuse possibilities that were fixed later on" topic.
(My take on this is that they will have to apply those fixes because the community is way more technically inclined now, and everything that can be abused _will_ be abused.)

Its also interesting to take this thought a bit further and think about how they will handle the uncountable exploits that were discovered and fixed during WoWs lifetime.
Since they are all well known now it also seems that they would have to apply all the fixes for them, but again this will push the engine further away from "pure vanilla".

[Khiyone]

As was already said, I highly doubt they are going to open the floodgates and allow insecure code to call protected functions despite the aim of adhering to Vanilla. There is simply far too much potential for abuse.

[Kanariya]

The big question is: Will Decursive be nerfed?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I don't care. This is one of those things that if they end up changing i wouldnt get upset. If it stayed the same i won't be upset.

[Khiyone]

The big question is: Will Decursive be nerfed?

But then we run into the problem of people just creating addons that you can macro like '/roguerotation' which leads to them having to protect certain functions and in the process breaking a lot of the addons we had back then. It's a lot messier than people might think.

The point of the foregoing discussion is that such functionality (and the associated addons) should be removed by protecting the relevant API functions, like they are today. It doesn't interfere with the organic feeling of the Vanilla server due to affecting only third-party addons and would certainly aid in providing a proper gameplay (not being able to more or less automate the game, as Tseng said above).

[Zaeyla]

Indifferent personally, Most people in vanilla did not use these kind of macros and didn't know they existed but properly would now so its definitely a good point of discussion.

[Deleted]

Most people in vanilla did not use these kind of macros

Yes and no -how many folk raided MC without Decursive, for example (at least once they'd been made aware of it)?

[Zaeyla]

Yes and no -how many folk raided MC without Decursive, for example (at least once they'd been made aware of it)?

Yeah I mean I'm aware plenty of people did use them just a *decent* majority of players back then we're pretty unaware of addons or macros but you're right especially beyond MC almost everyone was using it, I really don't know how I feel about it to be honest though I could care less one way or the other.

[Echocho]

Yeah I mean I'm aware plenty of people did use them just a *decent* majority of players back then we're pretty unaware of addons or macros but you're right especially beyond MC almost everyone was using it, I really don't know how I feel about it to be honest though I could care less one way or the other.

With proper mouseover macros and raid frames that visually highlight the cursed it won't be needed, problem is we didn't really have those either back then. There was more work getting such a solution going than to just install decursive.

[Anahita]

That would be a good idea, however if they do that a lot of the legitimate addons from that era will stop working and may not even be possible to recreate to the way they were.

Hmm, which ones? The 'usual' addons like Bigwigs/Skada etc. that we are familiar would work, wouldn't they?

[mich4el]

No don't add the new macros functionality let us play the actual game i don't want macros and addons playing the game for me or you.
Vanilla require no changes and updates if you alter it in any way shape or form its no longer vanilla.

[Dergiab]

No don't add the new macros functionality let us play the actual game i don't want macros and addons playing the game for me or you.
Vanilla require no changes and updates if you alter it in any way shape or form its no longer vanilla.

If you don't want addons playing the game for you then you are not playing Vanilla. Did you forget Decursive and similiar addons?

If you don't want any changes and updates, you are looking at a game sold only physically, no bug or exploit fixes (remember Dire Maul gold farming? Remember broken pathfinding on mobs and pets? Charging and falling through the ground?) and a server population of 2500 max.

[Solitare-sp]

Hmm, which ones? The 'usual' addons like Bigwigs/Skada etc. that we are familiar would work, wouldn't they?

you would certainly want something like healbot (which was available in Vanilla if i remember). Healing using the default UI would be...rough.

[Tseng]

Don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate for a "pristine" vanilla server, but this topic is a very tricky one so let me try to sum my point of view up:

The APIs were very open back then, and as people discovered ways to use (or "abuse") them to automate things Blizzard gradually protected them (made them unavailable to addons and macros) and often introduced alternative ways to accomplish those things, but requiring more user interaction.

(Decursive is a good example - doing all the decision making automatically and decursing with a single button was deemed not OK so the APIs got protected, but as an alternative SecureFrames were introduced that allowed a modified Decursive variant that was based on clicking highlighted frames, which was deemed OK by Blizzard because it required more decision making by the player)

So there are 2 possibilities:

a) Keep the APIs as they were in vanilla
+ "pristine"
--- With the gathered knowledge of 10+ years we would inevitably see way more extreme automation addons than the ones we had back then (expect single button "perfect rotation" addons for each class - DPS and healers and, to an extent even tanks - to pop up in no time)

b) Protect the APIs
+ prevents automation addons
- no longer "pristine"
- A lot of work for blizzard - a lot of the mentioned "alternatives" to protected APIs (SecureFrames, macro conditionals, ...) were developed much later than vanilla, so they have to somehow backport them to the vanilla engine

(of course there is also the possibility to protect the APIs and provide no alternative, but as someone already mentioned this would take away features that were available back then and that are also available now through different means, so it seems like a negative - negative scenario)

[Blackmist]

It should be left in. That was Vanilla. You wanted Vanilla. You should get Vanilla.

You'll be wanting viable ret DPS, bear tanks and alliance shaman next.

[Lahis]

Keep it unchanged. Let Healbot and Decursive reign supreme!

[Tseng]

The problem is that while the game itself may be "vanilla", the creativity of addon authors is based on 2017 knowledge.

So you will not only have the Healbots and Decursives you remember from back then, but you will also get new "single button perfect rotation" addons that were technically possible back then, but addon authors had not yet built up the technical knowledge to make them before their APIs got protected.


Edit (and a bit off-topic):

Kind of the same argumentation can be used for exploits in the game engine itself (think of really bad stuff like item duping or server crashing) - that stuff got gradually fixed as it was discovered, but of course now in 2017 we have the gathered knowledge of all exploits that ever existed.

So it seems that Blizzard has to patch up their vanilla game engine with the fixes to those exploits to avoid complete chaos, but of course this again means going a step further away from "pristine vanilla".
(The good thing is that those fixes can be made "under the hood" and do not affect the "pristine experience" - unless you're a really mean guy and also consider crashing the server "pristine experience", while the macro/LUA API topic has an effect on players no matter what they decide to do )

But there is even some point of debate to non-critical game engine fixes - would you describe getting stuck in your looting pose or having unmineable ore nodes "vanilla experience" or rather have them fixed? (For those non-critical things I'm a hardliner - keep them as they were )

[owbu]

It should be left in. That was Vanilla. You wanted Vanilla. You should get Vanilla.

You'll be wanting viable ret DPS, bear tanks and alliance shaman next.

I think there is two things to this argument:
The new addons created wouldnt be vanilla. The most vanilla aproach would be to pick the most well known old addons and scripts and give those to everyone (with an off/on button in the character menu). And then take away the ability to add your own.
And second: I think exploit and bug fixes are okay. I would call this an exploit.

[Hypasonic]

This is literally a class example of something which is outdated but worked at the time, they will have to change it. I mean, imagine weakauras in classic, you'd be able to make a WA do literally anything.