J. Allen Brack and UBRS

[Sastank]

It used to be like that you know. In Vanilla. Bring 5, 10 or 15, up to you.

So not 20 or 30 ok

[Jyggalag]

If you don't want the classic vanilla experience, nothing prevents you from experiencing the content right now in retail (most of it remains untouched by cataclysm). You ll get all the QoL you need and some more. Nobody says classic servers are for everybody but I can guarantee you people who are asking for vanilla servers (myself included) are those who cannot cope witth your so called "QoL" improvements that ruined wow.

If you actually read any of my comments on this exact thread you'll see I've already debunked this stupid idea that vanilla can't be enjoyed unless it's the broken unbalanced shit fest it was when it moved to TBC. I've also given a list of QoL improvements that could be made without taking away from the magic that the original experience offered. The live version of the game is so far removed from what made WoW great originally that your suggestion to play it because a classic server would be completely ruined by some bug fixes, UI and graphical improvements, class balancing so that players can tank as more than 1 spec is beyond retarded.

I'm also a staunch advocate of legacy servers, but to imply they're perfect as is is complete garbage. That would imply that if TBC had never came out, even if wow went FTP, that there wouldnt be a single bug fix or QoL improvement, which is just ridiculous. That's like saying you would have complained if any changes that didn't involve LFG, LFR and the countless other systems that ruined the immersion and community had been implemented instead of the release of a new expansion and you would have stopped playing the game. Whereas in reality if you used your fucking brain and thought about that for one second, you would agree that you would have loved a few changes back then - I know I would have. Even if you didn't, there's a much broader audience than you that Blizzard are trying to please with a classic option, and QoL improvements will be vital to attracting players who don't play private servers today for the very reason that a lot of vanilla was a complete mess with regards to class and spec viability and a ton of other things I CBA to list.

[Lolsteak]

In the latest patch of Classic it was 10 man. Argument over.

I do hope he and Blizzard do ample consulting with the community if they really remember Classic this poorly.

Indeed.

I find it hard to understand the people saying "You can't even decide what patch of Vanilla you guys want!", It's kinda obvious that it would be the last true vanilla patch (1.12.2).

[Not Againnn]

Why would it be a 1.0 server? No one would want to play on that. They are going to want all of the systems that we had in place. This means all of the various class balance patches they did, the raids, the quest chains. Most of that wasn't even available in 1.0.

even still, what is there to work on from 1.0-2.0?

nothing. the work is already done in ANY case; unless...

they are starting from the ground up and making a vanilla server(s) that incorporates systems from the current live game. i dont see them rolling it back to 1.whatever. it wouldnt make a lot of business sense, seeing as once people learn that most classes only have one viable spec, they will stop playing. if they are expecting tons of people to play vanilla, they are going to make sure that they cater to the crowd and not the hardcore ~1% that will be raiding full time.

[Deleted]

If you actually read any of my comments on this exact thread you'll see I've already debunked this stupid idea that vanilla can't be enjoyed unless it's the broken unbalanced shit fest it was when it moved to TBC.

Say who exactly ? Who are you to say that your changes would make the game better for the majority ? If you start making changes, where do you draw the line ?

Also, nobody is saying vanilla is perfect, but nobody knows how to actually improve the experience. Not you, not me, not even blizzard (one just have to see how flawed the current game is).

People asked for vanilla, vanilla it must be. Not hybrid retail/vanilla or I don't know what.

The live version of the game is so far removed from what made WoW great originally that your suggestion to play it because a classic server would be completely ruined by some bug fixes, UI and graphical improvements, class balancing so that players can tank as more than 1 spec is beyond retarded.

And what is class balancing for you ? Who are you even to say the class weren't balanced ? (which is a common misconception from misinformed players) If it is to make every single class dealing the same damage then it is already a flawed change and why the current game is so dull (basically each class is the same).

I'm also a staunch advocate of legacy servers, but to imply they're perfect as is is complete garbage. That would imply that if TBC had never came out, even if wow went FTP, that there wouldnt be a single bug fix or QoL improvement, which is just ridiculous. That's like saying you would have complained if any changes that didn't involve LFG, LFR and the countless other systems that ruined the immersion and community had been implemented instead of the release of a new expansion and you would have stopped playing the game. Whereas in reality if you used your fucking brain and thought about that for one second, you would agree that you would have loved a few changes back then - I know I would have. Even if you didn't, there's a much broader audience than you that Blizzard are trying to please with a classic option, and QoL improvements will be vital to attracting players who don't play private servers today for the very reason that a lot of vanilla was a complete mess with regards to class and spec viability and a ton of other things I CBA to list.

The point isn't to make every player play classic servers but rather provide players who want it with classic servers (for better or worse), which isn't the same thing at all. The watered down wow which tries to cater to everybody is retail.

Also, class changes aren't QoL changes at all and indeed 3.0 ruined wow for me, it simply wasn't the same game afterward.

ps: I don't care about graphical and bug fixes, but what you're proposing goes way beyond that. Changing the classes is changing the game.

[Zaeyla]

Yeah it did annoy me how he kept messing that up but I just hope he and Blizzard stay true to their word and the request of Legacy fans and deliver on giving us true World of Warcraft: Classic servers not Retail with vanilla content.

[Deleted]

How exactly can you call retail watered down, and then want to play vanilla? Retail has more to do then ever, and gives you different difficulties to do it on.

Only less than 1 % of the content is relevant in retail (mythic + and mythic raiding), everything else is casual content. In wow vanilla, the whole game is rather homogeneous (it is not a matter of difficulty but rather of how the gameplay is tuned, the group plays makes no senses at all in legion because basically each class do the same thing in one role).

Furthermore, classes are designed with group play in vanilla, when classes in wow retail have been designed with solo play in mind since 3.0 (group gameplay being an afterthought).

[Jyggalag]

Say who exactly ? Who are you to say that your changes would make the game better for the majority ? If you start making change, where do you draw the line ?

Also, nobody is saying vanilla is perfect, but nobody knows how to actually improve the experience. Not you, not me, not even blizzard (one just have to see how flawed the current game is).

Since you're incapable of an original thought, let's break down the most obvious one, shall we?
9 classes in vanilla - 3 specs per class = 27 specs, of which about 8-10 were viable end game depending on the content. There's 17-19 improvements that can be made without ruining the classic experience, just by tweaking some numbers.

Here's some more -
Modern addon/lua/macro support
Graphic/texture improvements
Modern interface/gui options
Bug/exploit fixes
Auto loot as an interface option
Auto area loot
Quest helper
Premade dungeon finder (not LFG) - an addon for vanilla wow currently offers this on private servers.
Stacking of certain items (like soul shards)
Debuff limit raised or removed - you don't have to bench your arms warrior friend because you exceed the buff limit.
Limit stacking of consumables
Boss tuning to make certain encounters more challenging - people will stomp all over those old bosses. An extra layer of difficulty would be welcomed by many looking for a challenge.

Taken from a poll on another thread.

Which of these QoL improvements would ruin vanilla? If anything, they would help a new classic server appeal to players who've never played vanilla and would entice those who have but won't play because it lacks all the points mentioned above. To suggest any of these would make the game unbearable for you is admitting you have masochistic tendancies and your opinion should not be viewed as anything other than irrelevant.

People like me, who played vanilla, remember fondly the rewarding gameplay, the social community and the immersion. People like me, who played vanilla, have bad memories of bugs, getting a class half way to 60 and realising you needed to respec or reroll, the awful default UI, the clicking of every corpse one by one, the list goes on. Improving on these things can only be good for the health of any classic server blizzard hope to release and support.

[Deleted]

Since you're incapable of an original thought, let's break down the most obvious one, shall we?
9 classes in vanilla - 3 specs per class = 27 specs, of which about 8-10 were viable end game depending on the content. There's 17-19 improvements that can be made without ruining the classic experience, just by tweaking some numbers.

Here's some more -
Modern addon/lua/macro support
Graphic/texture improvements
Modern interface/gui options
Bug/exploit fixes
Auto loot as an interface option
Auto area loot
Quest helper
Premade dungeon finder (not LFG) - an addon for vanilla wow currently offers this on private servers.
Stacking of certain items (like soul shards)
Debuff limit raised or removed - you don't have to bench your arms warrior friend because you exceed the buff limit.
Limit stacking of consumables
Boss tuning to make certain encounters more challenging - people will stomp all over those old bosses. An extra layer of difficulty would be welcomed by many looking for a challenge.

Taken from a poll on another thread.

Which of these QoL improvements would ruin vanilla? If anything, they would help a new classic server appeal to players who've never played vanilla and would entice those who have but won't play because it lacks all the points mentioned above. To suggest any of these would make the game unbearable for you is admitting you have masochistic tendancies and your opinion should not be viewed as anything other than irrelevant.

You have the flawed reasoning that the game was tuned around specs in vanilla when in truth the game was tuned around classes, specialization only being a way to improve some spells and aspects of the classes. It is only starting from WOTLK that specialization really started to bring new relevant things to most classes. Most classes used to have hybrid builds in vanilla, and in TBC they only were slightly more specialized due to the implementation of the last talent row. I ll say it again : if you want self contained specs that are all viable (because they are all the same), please play legion.

Also no the boss tuning shouldn't be changed and the debuff limit shouldn't be increased. Soul shards shouldn't stack (and I used to be a warlock in vanilla). consumables shouldn't be touched. As for the other changes I don't care as it doesn't change the gameplay. Vanilla should be vanilla, not a whole new game.

Which of these QoL improvements would ruin vanilla? If anything, they would help a new classic server appeal to players who've never played vanilla and would entice those who have but won't play because it lacks all the points mentioned above. To suggest any of these would make the game unbearable for you is admitting you have masochistic tendancies and your opinion should not be viewed as anything other than irrelevant.

I just know what I m asking for, eg vanilla with its good aspects and its flaw. Not a whole new game. And that's what was being asked for bby the legacy server community.

Some classes are hardly viable for anything in vanilla. Also, don't forget vanilla was the casual MMO of its time. This fake hardcore notion that people have of vanilla is mind boggling.

Nobody is saying that vanilla was hardcore. The way current gamers think the only thing that makes a game good or bad is whether it is hard or not is beyond me. Current legion wow isn't easy, the issue is that the gameplay is terrible on most of the content (be it hard or easy). Mostly because what made interesting (eg the interactions inside the groups) was removed from the game in 3.0 and only the micro gestion remained.

Also, no, all classes used to be viable and used in vanilla.

[Deleted]

No, what makes a good game is not a bug filled mess with broken ass classes and pointless nonsense like weapon trainers and weapon skills. Coming from someone who admits I was a terrible ret pally in vanilla who started about half though.

And I know very good ret paladins that are still playing wow in legion who were raiding in top guilds in vanilla (as ret paladins). You have the right to consider that vanilla was a terrible game but nobody ask you to play classic servers.

Also what you re calling pointless nonsense are RPG elements, but I understand that they cannot be for the gogogo mentality community.

[Jyggalag]

You have the flawed reasoning that the game was tuned around specs in vanilla when in truth the game was tuned around classes, specialization only being a way to improve some spells and aspects of the classes. It is only starting from WOTLK that specialization really started to bring new relevant things to most classes.

Also no the boss tuning shouldn't be changed and the debuff limit shouldn't be increased. Soul shards shouldn't stack (and I used to be a warlock in vanilla). consumables shouldn't be touched. Vanilla should be vanilla, not a whole new game.

I just know what I m asking for, eg vanilla with its good aspects and its flaw. Not a whole new game.

Nobody is saying that vanilla was hardcore. The way current gamers think the only thing that makes a game good or bad is whether it is hard or not is beyond me. Current legion wow isn't easy, the issue is that the gameplay is terrible on most of the content (be it hard or easy).

Also, no, all classes used to be viable and used in vanilla.

I have flawed reasoning about specs??? There were a ton of great and underutilized specs that weren't invited because of the stupid debuff limit. There's actually a thread on here with someone having 10 level 60 chars, 6 from live and 4 on private servers, has outlined each one and debunked any myth that only certain roles/class were designed to be viable. You haven't a clue.

What you're asking for already exists on private servers. Vanilla private servers are some of the best scripted and stable servers there are. Why would anyone who's invested time on a private server, which is free, make the switch to a classic server with all of the same bugs and issues, and suddenly start paying a sub to start from scratch with 0 QoL improvements? What's the incentive? What's the incentive for people not playing private servers, who know Vanilla is a shitfest, to want to make the swap from live, with 0 QoL improvements? That's right - there are none.

[Deleted]

What you're asking for already exists on private servers. Vanilla private servers are some of the best scripted and stable servers there are. Why would anyone who's invested time on a private server, which is free, make the switch to a classic server with all of the same bugs and issues, and suddenly start paying a sub to start from scratch with 0 QoL improvements? What's the incentive? What's the incentive for people not playing private servers, who know Vanilla is a shitfest, to want to make the swap from live, with 0 QoL improvements? That's right - there are none.

Because private servers are illegal ? (as much as I'd like to, I m not playing on private servers for that very reason) And the incentive is simply that the group gameplay and raiding used to be insanely fun in vanilla ?

Ans, I ll say it again, it has been stated in the eurogamer interview that the intent isn't to make every single player play vanilla.

You just simply doesn't seem to be the intended target for classic servers. Accept it and move on with your life on legion.

I have flawed reasoning about specs??? There were a ton of great and underutilized specs that weren't invited because of the stupid debuff limit. There's actually a thread on here with someone having 10 level 60 chars, 6 from live and 4 on private servers, has outlined each one and debunked any myth that only certain roles/class were designed to be viable. You haven't a clue.

You re doing it again. You're reasoning around specs when you should be reasoning around roles and classes (as "specs" used to be LoL like talent trees that used to have at most 2~3 specific spells in vanilla). Each possible role for each classes was invited, the only thing is that some used to be rarer than the other (due to some classes being more useful in one role than the other). When you wanted to heal as a priest you didn't ask yourselves "do I want to be disc of holy ?" you did ask yourselves "what talent do I need to take ?".

As an example as I played warlock in vanilla and as such I know a little about it, specialization didn't change a lot of things in vanilla. If you did put a lot of talent points into affliction your dot used to deal more damage, if you did put a lot of points in demonology you used to be more tanky and if you did put a lot of points in destruction your direct damage did deal more damage. And that's all, most spells were available to the three specs. However there used to be two cokie cutter specs for DPS in raid (either with demonic sacrifice and ruin, or shadow mastery and ruin, but they didn't change much of your gameplay).

It is only starting from TBC and WOTLK that people started to reason in terms of specs, as the latest talents in the tree were mandatory and as such required heavy specialization due to the number of talent points you had to commit to one tree to reach them.

But as the game wasn't about "bring the player not the class", it is natural that some cookie cutter setups were being used. Also, most current players seems to forget support classes used to be a thing in vanilla (shadowpriest, druid, shaman, paladin), they dealt less damage by themselves but did bring utility to the raid/group. People asking for a buff for theses classes simply forget about that and just want the "bring the player not the class" back, as support classes weren't a thing after 3.0.

[Xargoth6634]

What you're asking for already exists on private servers. Vanilla private servers are some of the best scripted and stable servers there are. Why would anyone who's invested time on a private server, which is free, make the switch to a classic server with all of the same bugs and issues, and suddenly start paying a sub to start from scratch with 0 QoL improvements? What's the incentive? What's the incentive for people not playing private servers, who know Vanilla is a shitfest, to want to make the swap from live, with 0 QoL improvements? That's right - there are none.

Because private servers can be shut down at any moment and all your time will be lost?

[Trend]

Original post is original. Stay salty my man

And saying something or someone is salty is so original. All you cool kids have already greatly surpassed your lifetime quota of using that stupid phrase already. Try something that isn't so much tired cliche.

[Ealyssa]

But if we get too many QoL improvements, it's not Vanilla any more. I specifically don't want them to make any QoL changes that weren't actually in Vanilla. It should be authentic. As soon as you start fixing and changing things to make life easier, you go down the same slippery slope as what brought us to casual wotlk.

I'm confused now. You wont vanilla or not ? Do you expect blizzard to tailor vanilla to your special request ?

[Edlarel]

No, what makes a good game is not a bug filled mess with broken ass classes and pointless nonsense like weapon trainers and weapon skills. Coming from someone who admits I was a terrible ret pally in vanilla who started about half though.

I only disagree with you on the point of weapon skills. Those need to come back if purely for the nostalgia of my mage with his staff skill maxed out and my rogue with everything, including unarmed skill. Also, leave bosses as they were because the game was different then. Even if it's easy by today's standards, that's not why people are going to play. Part of the challenge of vanilla was farming a bunch of resist gear to go into that particular raid, as well as raising reps for strange groups like cenarian circle so we could buy water to put out the runes in MC. Then it was nature resist for AQ and frost resist for Naxx (assuming we get them all).

I'm fine with keeping all of that, flaws and everything. But, I do concede that specs need to be approached in a way that lets them be playable without changing how talent trees worked. IF that can be done. If not, I'll suck it up and roll a warrior or hunter for the best chance at corrupted ashbringer.

[Jyggalag]

You just simply doesn't seem to be the intended target for classic servers. Accept it and move on with your life on legion.

I've already stated I'm currently playing private servers and have spent some time in Vanilla. You sir, are retarded, and can't see past your own desires. The game needs to come out as you want it, or bust. Can't wait to hear the devs announce all the QoL improvements they intend to make.

- - - Updated - - -

And saying something or someone is salty is so original. All you cool kids have already greatly surpassed your lifetime quota of using that stupid phrase already. Try something that isn't so much tired cliche.

Stay salty, Trend.

- - - Updated - - -

Because private servers can be shut down at any moment and all your time will be lost?

You'd have to be a moron to believe that Blizzard couldn't shut down any and all of those servers whenever they feel like it. They've done so on many occasions before, and always left the ones that don't turn a profit alone - especially the vanilla ones. Anyone who plays on them realizes this.

What you're effectively saying, is that Blizzard, a business, that has gotten the green light from some senior officials that this is a viable investment of resources, will now build a team from scratch, dedicated solely to a classic WoW experience, to cater only for a few thousand players who want an experience they can already get for free, without any effort on Blizzard's side, despite saying for years that it doesn't make sense for them to do so.

QoL changes are coming. Guaranteed.

[ReVnX]

I used to run it nightly 5-man for the pattern for robe of the archmage. The bosses were largely tank-and-spank, and only trash was an issue.

We are talking about the cap. Of course a lot of people 5-manned it

[Pensylvestor]

i think that if they're gonna do it, they should do it legit. do it at the latest patch of the game, so most bug fixes are in and shit, and then change literally nothing else.

will it be a shitty experience for anyone not familiar with it? fuck yes. no ele sham, no disc priest, crap like that. but that's what has been called for, so that's what they should get.

what i expect they will do, is do the latest patch, with some modern updates like making all specs viable. it's just going to piss off the people that wanted vanilla servers, and it still won't draw in people from the modern age.

Pretty much this... there is literally no way they can make these classic servers and not piss off thousands, if not millions of people.

I'd like to see it at the latest naxx patch (1.12 I believe it was?), with raids being slow released, maybe bgs as well just as it was back then. If they change anything more than that, such as class balancing, it won't be classic any more. And if you start changing things like that, where does it stop? You'll end up with a retail version of classic.

As much as people bitch about retail, just about every single one of the QoL changes that have been implemented into the game that supposedly "killed" WoW, have been things that the COMMUNITY asked for.

[Perkunas]

Oh man someone forgot the player cap for a dungeon that is years old......

I bet Blizzard will fire him tomorrow for it.

I say stick him in the stocks!