I don't think people realize how easy the raids will actually be.

[equus80]

I think you'll be surprised. Yes the mechanics were easier, but the work and prep needed for raids was much higher. Food, Pots, Buffs, and just access to gear make it a very different beast.

Not to mention grouping up 40 people and organising them correctly.

You're confusing difficult content with time consuming chores to get ready for the content though. While the chores were very much necessary in Vanilla in order to even attempt to raid, and many many hours had to be spent each week farming and preparing for that, doesn't mean the content was hard or even good by today's standards.

I mean unless, the mindless preparation and farming is what really made Vanilla good for you. Vanilla was 90%+ farming and 10% actually doing content (which was basically only raiding or nothing at all). You are very much correct the prep was very difficult, and I personally think once people remember just how obscenely time consuming it was to just prepare yourself to even attempt to raid today, not to mention hoping that 39 other people had that much time to do it too, will be a bit of a shock for most. I don't think many who played in 2005 can play in 2017. 13 years later, people have more active and demanding jobs, families, many more real life obligations. In 2005 you really had to no life this game in many instance in order to have the time to spend just preparing for the content.

[kenoathcarn]

ZG actually had allot more good gear then you seem to recall *cough* ZHC

Also you seem to think people will be fully decked out in mc/bwl gear? which just is not the case. gear is a drip feed from 40mans, theres barely any to go around, you wont have 40 people decked in raid gear and this is assuming you don't have to replace people who quit or leave for other guilds.

[Tech614]

The challenge with raids in vanilla is maintaining a 40 man roster geared. You got less loot per boss for 40 people then you currently get for 20.

So in reality I think people like the OP are in for a gut check as hype dies and you lose players good luck reaching nax when you have to regear another new 10 recruits every few weeks, then your currently geared players get tired of re gearing new players and either quit or jump ship.

Have fun if it stays true to classic, good luck you'll need it. MC is whatever and even BWL is not that bad but once you start trying to maintain a roster for AQ40 and later Naxx good fucking luck. Those are flat out gear checks you will not meet without a 40 man roster that has grinded the content forever.

[Heathy]

ZG actually had allot more good gear then you seem to recall *cough* ZHC

Also you seem to think people will be fully decked out in mc/bwl gear? which just is not the case. gear is a drip feed from 40mans, theres barely any to go around, you wont have 40 people decked in raid gear and this is assuming you don't have to replace people who quit or leave for other guilds.

its not going to take that long though, ppl think the entry to molten core is a lot higher than it actually is. once you start killing bosses in there its not going to take long to gear up ppl in t1.

this is another reason why i think zg should exist on day one, it helped create raiding guilds, you can start small with 20 and build up to 40. its content that helps create guilds. at the end of the day i don't see the game doing too well if they hold back zg for a year or more. not having a 20 man raid size is going to be one thing, shit. just one more arbitrary cock block on what is otherwise a fun game.

[vsb]

Paragon can clear mythic content in few weeks and they'll kill most mythic bosses in very few attempts except the last ones. I'm wiping on every mythic boss for weeks, Goroth took around 100 attempts, for example. I'm not really listening to Paragon in terms of difficulty. It's probably easy for top raiders, too bad for them. It'll be fun and hard enough for me, that's for sure.

[Alienshroom]

Why do people keep thinking things need to be difficult? Vanilla WoW is a raw grind... Its what people want. You cant have something be too difficult while expecting 40 people to farm it every week. The farming has to be effective for 40 people to get gear at a rate that is attractive enough for them to return aka keep paying that subscription. MMOs can thrive on a perfected grind model and thats just what vanilla WoW is.

[equus80]

The challenge with raids in vanilla is maintaining a 40 man roster geared. You got less loot per boss for 40 people then you currently get for 20.

So in reality I think people like the OP are in for a gut check as hype dies and you lose players good luck reaching nax when you have to regear another new 10 recruits every few weeks, then your currently geared players get tired of re gearing new players and either quit or jump ship.

Have fun if it stays true to classic, good luck you'll need it.

My brothers guild went through that and was never able to progress beyond BWL in Vanilla. They would gear up 40, lose 5, 5 more would be poached to a higher level guild who lost 5 themselves, and now they were back in MC gearing up 10 more players. Re-enter BWL again with your 40 geared players and lose a few more players and a few more get poached and it was back to MC again. A lot of guilds back then had that issue, they basically were gearing factories that higher level guilds poached from or players themselves selfishly used to gear up and jump ship from, so many guilds were statically "stuck," so to speak, at what ever raid they were in at the time and never could move beyond.

[Seefer]

Raiding will be a joke because 1) our current addons are OP AF and are much more advanced than addons used back in Vanilla, so they will carry hard 2) mechanics of raid bosses in Vanilla are a joke compared to current 5 man dungeon bosses

Yeah um, who is to say we will have said addons? And if they are so piss easy why do you need them? Also, the mechanics might be less demanding but you will also have a lot less abilities and mana to deal with them.

[sonololo]

You realize some classes did double the damage of others, right? It wasn't like now where most classes are within 5-10%.
With the right setup and full load of consumables, I wouldn't be surprised at all that it was cleared first week with very few people.

A reminder to you all in this thread that damage in Classic raids does not matter at all.

THREAT matters.

It really matters even on bosses in raids.

If you deal a lot of damage, you will pull threat.

Pulled threat is a fault of a damage dealer, not a fault of a tank.

I remember so many warlock saying "oh shit i crit" with thier rolling crit abilities during trash mobs in raid and see them dying just after.

[Hawg]

Legion baby tank runs in and pulls 3 packs, cant hold aggro on more than 2 mobs, group dies, 1/2 the group leaves. I expect this theme to start asap.. like wailing caverns soon..

I wish mmo-champion still had a "like" button.

[kenoathcarn]

I mean unless, the mindless preparation and farming is what really made Vanilla good for you. Vanilla was 90%+ farming and 10% actually doing content (which was basically only raiding or nothing at all). You are very much correct the prep was very difficult, and I personally think once people remember just how obscenely time consuming it was to just prepare yourself to even attempt to raid today, not to mention hoping that 39 other people had that much time to do it too, will be a bit of a shock for most. I don't think many who played in 2005 can play in 2017. 13 years later, people have more active and demanding jobs, families, many more real life obligations. In 2005 you really had to no life this game in many instance in order to have the time to spend just preparing for the content.

Difference being that this mindless preparation happened on contested servers, and generally lead to player driven content like competing for gathering nodes, which lead to pvp, next thing you know you've spent hours having fun while your doing your "chores".

Maybe you like being on a server all by yourself with bots? hell, even most raids/dungeons i do may aswell be bots, noone talks, we just auto pilot through the game and never see/talk to each other again.

[epLe]

It was just a lot harder to raid, not that the average raid boss was any more complex.

But with all factors, the hardest vanilla bosses is the ones fewest ever killed for good reason.

[Irefusetodie]

Just because bosses are mechanically easy doesn't mean they're numerically easy.

[kenoathcarn]

Why do people keep thinking things need to be difficult? Vanilla WoW is a raw grind... Its what people want. You cant have something be too difficult while expecting 40 people to farm it every week. The farming has to be effective for 40 people to get gear at a rate that is attractive enough for them to return aka keep paying that subscription. MMOs can thrive on a perfected grind model and thats just what vanilla WoW is.

Most mmo players at the time of Wow's launch even considered wow to be rather casual by comparison, especially to some of the asian counterparts.

[Heathy]

Just because bosses are mechanically easy doesn't mean they're numerically easy.

if they are the same as they were they are going to be easier for various reasons, firstly not many ppl are clickers and keyboard turners anymore, secondly computer hardware and internet connections are substantially better than they were in 2004. knowledge of the game is a lot greater than it was. these things are going to have a profound affect on the difficulty. when the game runs at a smooth playable frame rate, when ppl aren't disconnecting all the time, and the server isn't churning out massive lag spikes. its going to be way smoother and stable. in some ways molten core without the massive lag spikes won't quite be the molten core i remember.

I don't think any bosses really had any enrage timers either, there were soft enrages but i don't remember any hard enrage in classic. so you can take 30 minutes to kill a boss if you want.

[Netherblood]

Just because bosses are mechanically easy doesn't mean they're numerically easy.

People didn't min max back then as much as now. A lot of players were also clickers even in top guilds. It was not uncommon for a person to do half dps of another person of same class.

If everyone plays to near maximum potential dps checks will be easy. Remember current dps checks are difficult not because dpsing is hard but because dpsing while doing difficult mechanics is hard with all the the movement. Most people can do well on boss training dummy. Fewer and less difficult mechanics makes it easier to meet dps checks.

Gear can however slow people down, since gear acquisition rate was very slow in vanilla.

[Hammerfest]

I don't know. If the Molten Core LFR taught us anything, it's that most folks today aren't cut out for an old school Vanilla raid. If the Vanilla raids are really going to be as "easy" as the lot of you think, then surely an LFR that includes classes that didn't exist in Vanilla should have been able to steamroll that shit. If memory serves, it didn't exactly pan out that way.

[Deleted]

If im going to be honest here current wow is still easier.
Why because the game is 1000 times faster pace in general, classes aren't resource starved and gear so stupidly inflated.
Like if NH normal was naxx40 ToS mythic is Wotlk Naxx25 the saddest part is i'm not even exaggerating.

Can't wait to see all the whining threats in a days time when you remember alliance wont have Blood lust and they'll occasionally get one shot by wind fury enhancement shimmies.

[MrPaladinGuy]

Not here to complain, just don't see people playing it for that long.

I have no doubt the raids will be a joke because

The playerbase is older

People know what they're in for so that might drastically affect how many active players of a class there are, which could also make it harder.
I still see this as a positive as it may lead to even more tanks being created.

People are used to raiding

Finding enough tanks likely won't be an issue (but easily could be)

People know the content as well as quests and there are many different places to go for quest help, so everything will be sped up
considerably, especially questing.

Getting people to download a mod isn't hard anymore. Mods aren't required, but it wasn't uncommon back then for healers new to raiding to actually be used to healing via targeting the player instead of a raid frame.

We're using ridiculously powerful hardware and connections compared to back then

I don't think most people will be stuck with the MC curse this time for a multitude of reasons as I'm sure many competent people were stuck in
MC for various reasons back in classic.

[equus80]

Difference being that this mindless preparation happened on contested servers, and generally lead to player driven content like competing for gathering nodes, which lead to pvp, next thing you know you've spent hours having fun while your doing your "chores".

Maybe you like being on a server all by yourself with bots? hell, even most raids/dungeons i do may aswell be bots, noone talks, we just auto pilot through the game and never see/talk to each other again.

Oh, I must have forgotten how PVE only servers were hand given all their raiding mats, and didn't have to farm for it too, you know, the type of servers that more than half of them are, then and now. Forgive me for not knowing that farming and raiding only happened on contested or PVP servers and PVE servers were just entirely bots according to you. Man what ever did those PVE servers and players do when they hit 60 then? Ok, you had fun PVPing on a PVP server or having PVP toggled on while you farmed for your mats. Most servers were not contested/PVP and most people I knew then didn't have whatever experience you're describing either. Nor do many, if anyone, I know have a single fond memory of farming up mats for hours every week just so they could raid that week with everyone else gathering those same nodes and killing those same mobs.

Basically your whole comment makes no sense. You're describing a small fraction of the player base/servers. Being on a server by yourself? I don't even know what that means in context of my comment, let alone Vanilla itself. Who was ever on an empty server back then? Bots? There were bots then, there are bots today. They were on every server too, that's sort of how they functioned. So what's your point? None, that's what I thought.

You sound like someone bitter about the game and confusing basically Vanilla, with every other iteration of it, with most peoples memories, at least that I'm familiar with, of farming back then.