Vanilla changes & community

[Deleted]

Tyrian cutest mage in FC.

Very cute.
The stuff that comes from hes mouth make me want to pet him, while wiping hes tears away and whispering "Its aaaall gona be ok" to hes ears.

[Nehezbegar]

Just release it as it was, no changes except fixing game / server breaking exploits and bugs. Nothing above that ? Don't like vanilla ? Play retail, simple as that. Just f off from the classic

[Armourboy]

Everyone remembers something different from Vanilla because the game lasted for two years—and yet the final patch only existed for three months before TBC replaced it.

Some people played at the very start of Vanilla and got fond memories of how difficult it was to level, which was changed multiple times over the course of those two years. Personally I'd be sad if they just used the TBC pre-patch (1.12+) and called it a day. It had huge changes to Rogues, which affected PvE and PvP and were not reflective of the actual Vanilla Rogue experience, including diminishing returns (which were only added in 1.12)

It wasn't just rogues, everyone got changes in that pre-patch, which is why they won't use that version, my guess is they go with the class version that most private servers use.

- - - Updated - - -

Classic WoW isn't going to be copy of what it used to be. I was just reading some interviews at blizzcon and the guy said himself they are kind of watching what classic fans want, 10 man or 5 man UBRS. That statement alone tells me that they are going to make small changes to the game for the better of it. He also said that eveyones nostalgia is about the game design, exploration, and social interactions of the game. Not his exact words but I summed it up. Sounds like they are going to keep the core gameplay and social aspect of the game intact while making small improvements for the better of it. Blizzard is smart about it. Why keep everyone playing 25% of the available specs in raids when 75% of specs out there are unused. Tweek the numbers and let everyone enjoy wow and not just he purist. What a fraction of the 25% of playable specs are purists that will leave if there are changes to class balance and then your left with a much larger player base with the amount of people that get to actually play their favorite specs. Blizzard is about making money and this is probably a no brainer to them.

Frankly if I was them before I changed a thing class wise I would try removing the buff/debuff limit and see what happens. There may be some specs that open up nicely when you could use dots and things. That said, I'm not one that is wanting them to change anything class/spec wise tbh.

[mrsohta]

I think the book name was implying forums rather than next expansion now

[Smashley]

TBC prepatch were 2.0.x

1.12 were mainly about adding world PvP objectives.

1.12+ was called Drums of War and it revamped Rogues entirely. They changed so much that they refunded our talent points and gave us a discount on our spell training. Druids, Warriors, Paladins, Mages, and Warlocks also had many spell and talent changes.
It added Cross-realm BGs and Diminishing Returns. They also made changes to riding licenses and to how Haste and Slow were calculated.

Also:

* Temporary item buffs (e.g. poisons, sharpening stones and shaman weapon buffs) will no longer persist through zoning or logging out due to technical issues. This feature is anticipated to be activated once more with the expansion.

1.12 was released at the end of August '06.

Patch 2.0.1—Before the Storm—the Dark Portal opening event was released at the beginning of December '06.

2.0.1 lasted a month and then TBC was officially released.

[Solitare-sp]

It wasn't just rogues, everyone got changes in that pre-patch, which is why they won't use that version, my guess is they go with the class version that most private servers use.

I think people are saying 1.12 as that is the most 'feature complete' version of Vanilla, (prior to 2.0 which they certainly can't use). The actual class basis should be another matter of discussion.

[Drpizka]

If you don't like vanilla difficulty, and you are a crybaby:

DO NOT PLAY IT.

Classic is not going to be the main game, BfA is going to be. Play that instead of classic.

[Armourboy]

I think people are saying 1.12 as that is the most 'feature complete' version of Vanilla, (prior to 2.0 which they certainly can't use). The actual class basis should be another matter of discussion.

Sure and frankly for most people it's probably the point where they want most classes, well unless you want Blizzard to adjust things. I kind of figure what we will get is Classes being in one spot with content being in another, and it wouldn't shock me if they don't adjust some of the specs at least numbers wise, although I would just assume they air on the side of caution with that.

[Solitare-sp]

Sure and frankly for most people it's probably the point where they want most classes, well unless you want Blizzard to adjust things. I kind of figure what we will get is Classes being in one spot with content being in another, and it wouldn't shock me if they don't adjust some of the specs at least numbers wise, although I would just assume they air on the side of caution with that.

Yeah indeed. As long as they keep the 'spirit' of the vanilla classes, and close to maybe 90% of the exact feel/experience then that won't be too bad. No one can remember exactly how it all was anyway, so as long as the talents and abilitities etc are there if ability X does 3% more than it did (to make the game work better) no ones going to even notice.

[Smashley]

Sure and frankly for most people it's probably the point where they want most classes, well unless you want Blizzard to adjust things. I kind of figure what we will get is Classes being in one spot with content being in another, and it wouldn't shock me if they don't adjust some of the specs at least numbers wise, although I would just assume they air on the side of caution with that.

The problem is that 1.12 was only playable for three months!

No one in their straight mind would say that these massive class changes reflect players' experiences of leveling and questing in Classic WoW. Rogues were straight up given full talent refunds because of those changes.

Rogues got new talents: Serrated Blades and Dirty Deeds, Chain Heal became a smart heal, Ranged Elemental weapons were overhauled, Threat reduction was redesigned, etc.

The idea that this patch is where “people want most classes to be” seems silly when you realize that most classes didn't play like that for the two years Vanilla existed.

[Slashnox]

While the Classic community is quite vocal and has been asking for Classic for a long time, the casual WoW retail players are a lot more. So how would you select whose whose votes matter?

This is actually a real thing. And I fucking hope Blizzard doesn't give in to ANY adjustments and just releases a pure nostalgic experience EVEN if it's hard as fuck and a constant grind to achieve anything and the casual players complain. Because that's just fun

[Armourboy]

The problem is that 1.12 was only playable for three months!

No one in their straight mind would say that these massive class changes reflect players' experiences of leveling and questing in Classic WoW. Rogues were straight up given full talent refunds because of those changes.

The idea that this patch is where “people want most classes to be” seems silly when you realize that most classes didn't play like that for the two years Vanilla existed.

Yeah but it's one of those things where Blizzard is going to need to make a choice on things and just run with it. You are right, but my guess is being that is what most have grown used to on private servers over the years that they will probably chose that.

I'll be honest I played for most of it and I couldn't tell you just exactly what changed class wise from patch to patch with Holy Paladin, other than a talent or two and them adding greater blessings obviously.

People remember certain things, mainly broad type things, I'm not sure most people can remember every little detail of how their class felt or played from one patch to the next at the end. I've know I've played on private servers and nothing seemed out of whack.

[Drpizka]

You mean, leave Vanilla alone as in "don't change anything" or "Let us have Vanilla and all the QoL improvements that we like"? Because if it is the second statement, that is already the hypocrisy: Some of the QoL requests include LFG...apparenly something that ruined the community.

Honestly, I am happy for everyone who wanted Classic servers. In all the threads it is always about the amazing community etc. About how EVERYTHING was back then. What is it with the requests to now change almost every aspect of it?

Everyone that wanted vanilla all these years, were clear "Vanilla; don't change anything".

No QoL at all. We are seeking the higher difficulty and we love the challenges.

[Armourboy]

You mean, leave Vanilla alone as in "don't change anything" or "Let us have Vanilla and all the QoL improvements that we like"? Because if it is the second statement, that is already the hypocrisy: Some of the QoL requests include LFG...apparenly something that ruined the community.

Honestly, I am happy for everyone who wanted Classic servers. In all the threads it is always about the amazing community etc. About how EVERYTHING was back then. What is it with the requests to now change almost every aspect of it?

It would be hard to prove without doing some serious diving into post histories and trying to line things up, and even then on polls it would be almost impossible, but I would be interested to see an honest look into how many that have wanted Vanilla servers and championed them line up with this idea of adding the current QoL stuff. I have a strange feeling that they mostly aren't the same people.

[RobertMugabe]

Mate, I am trusting Blizzard's verdict more and more on this, after seeing all the changes they want to it.

"they"

MMOC has never been representitive of any community and especially not of the Vanilla one (since any thread about this topic gets a lot of shitposting)...

[Rhall]

I'm curious to see the changes. If we get patch 1.9 we should have alot of the QoL changes that are listed.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

TLDR: The more you discuss what could be changed in vanilla, the higher the chances are something will and you end up with LFR, 4k graphics and ElvUI. (listed these things as things which did not exist in vanilla, not that they are bad).

I find it quite interesting there are so many threads on this forum discussing possible vanilla changes. I have been playing since vanilla and still do every expansion. I love retail, I appreciate WoW's past. I have nothing against bring WoW: Classic - the more content there is for people the better.

However, if the goal is to preserve the authentic vanilla experience, outside of bug/crash fixes, nothing else changes. From classes to bosses to drops to systems - everything remains as in vanilla. If you attempt to discuss changes, authentic goes out the door. The only QoL changes must be bug fixes and nothing else.

Just have a look at the list of threads/polls now on this page:

"Poll: Vanilla WoW Yay or Nah to the new graphics?"
22% want new graphics

"Poll: What changes to classic would you be okay with?"
35% want modern addon/lua/macro support
34% want modern character models/animations
34% want modern graphics
32% want modern interface
15% want nerf to known gold farming spots
20% want class balancing
22% want spec viability
38% want auto loot as an option
30% want auto area loot
13% want quest helper
9% want premade dungeon finder
26% want stacking soulshards
22% want debuffs raised/removed
12% want limit stacking of consumables
17% want more challenging bosses
17% want guild bank
37% want no changes

"QoL needed for an amazing classic experience"
"Poll: Should Talents be Class-Specific rather than Spec-specific?"
"A change classic servers absolutely needs"
"Poll: Would you prefer no updates or updates?"
"Why WoW: Classic Needs the Tweaks"

Now, sure, some of these threads are clearly trolls and bait, but you realize Blizzard will poll the COMMUNITY. That means EVERYONE, people who love Classic AND people who HATE classic will vote. People who have never played Classic will vote for features they never experienced first hand.

While the Classic community is quite vocal and has been asking for Classic for a long time, the casual WoW retail players are a lot more. So how would you select whose votes matter?
This question is really important when it comes down to the intricate details of vanilla, such as the detailed poll I posted above in this post illustrates - stacking soulshards? debuff slots? spec viability? You can see a basic poll on mmochampion results in such high %s for things which are unthinkable for vanilla.

I think what these polls prove if nothing really has a clear majority? Of course I know if these results aren't what you want than it will be the "its just MMO champion not the whole WoW community thus really doesn't count but merely a sample" or if it is what you are looking for "god mode poll created and should be followed, deal with it".

Useless in either case.

[Edlarel]

I just want my old Twinks back!

*Excited Gasp* That's right! We can make broken, level 9 twinks again ! Now I'm genuinely looking forward to this again. They're right, Blizzard, change nothing! I want to get my friend's notes on his 9th-level rogue who can take on level 20s and win.

[Smashley]

I couldn't tell you just exactly what changed class wise from patch to patch with Holy Paladin, other than a talent or two and them adding greater blessings obviously.

Holy Paladins got their big rework in 1.9, which is what you're referring to.

In 1.10 Relics were introduced and all the Priest Racial abilities were changed, Druids' Rip became a bleed!

1.11 gave Druids Innervate baseline and replaced the talent with a new spell called Swiftmend. Mages got a new ability: Winter's Chill, Arcane Explosion because instant-cast, Arcane Power no longer stacked with Power Infusion. All durations for totems were increased and their mana costs reduced. Warrior's Shield Slam was completely redesigned from scratch.

And like I mentioned before, 1.12 changed Rogues too.

Over the course of Vanilla lots of classes had changes to their popular/viable builds because of class changes.

[Deleted]

"they"

MMOC has never been representitive of any community and especially not of the Vanilla one (since any thread about this topic gets a lot of shitposting)...

Indeed. I never got the "they are doing this" "they want that"
I mean this is a god damn forum with ppl behind nicknames, like anyone here is representing anything.