Why WoW: Classic Needs the Tweaks.

[dd614]

There are only some tiny QoL tweaks I'd like to see. There were some quests where you had to loot an item from a quest object that would respawn once every 5 minutes. A couple of them were in dungeons as well. Change these to loot for everyone.

[Azadina]

I'm not saying they should balance the specs, because honestly I don't know what they should do with it in this case, but this is just wrong. Their philosophy has NEVER been to have half the specs be almost unplayable. In vanilla they just didn't have time to do the rebalancing. With TBC the situation improved dratstically.

Still, I think keeping the vanilla specs the way they were is the right decision. At first at any rate.

You say that because you've clearly never understood the design philosophy. Up until Wotlk, they did NOT intend all specs to be raid viable. They did NOT intend all specs to be PvP viable. You call them broken because you don't understand this. Each class had atleast one spec with design intended for PvP. Whether the spec was successful for PvP or not, is another story. Each class also had a spec designed for raiding.

The "all should be viable for everything" was idea for Wotlk (mostly because of the constant complaining from the Arena crowd, an addition Blizzard multiple times later said was a bad mistake). Even in late BC the classes had specs for PvE, and atleast one spec designed for PvP. Whether PvE spec was viable in PvP and vice versa, was coincidence, not by design.

[Zamfix]

So you don't want classic WoW. Ok. This will be the new norm.

[Bigbazz]

Way to be misleading. The reason warriors and rogues are at the top is because it's a bunch of people with world buffs and better gear doing farm content. Meaning all the fights are short and benefit them greatly.

This is what the runs you're talking about look like

So what you're saying is that I'm being misleading because sometimes a mage creeps into the top 10 in your video? Most of that video is dominated by dps Warriors, which is what I expected anyway. There is a mage in the top 100 on those ranking lists too btw, but just the one. The list I posted was for a different private server too, the most popular current one if that means anythng to you.

I have no idea of the quality/accuracy of Anathema so I can't really take anything more from it, I've never played there.

[Bigbazz]

I'm saying it's misleading because you're using extreme speed runs as a showcase for how classes are balanced.

But your video shows the exact same thing, so how is it misleading? Warriors and Rogues are objectively the best raw dps in Vanilla and when it comes to minmaxing they really do pull far ahead.. It's not misleading to point out that fact, and it gets even worse in Naxx because of how hard melee dps (and Warriors especially) scale with gear.

[Hashcrypt]

Leave classic alone. If you start fucking with shit then Vanilla suddenly becomes some Frankenstein monster that ultimately satisfies no one.

Also, Blizzard will not have the time or resources to update, tweak, and implement balance changes for two concurrently running versions of WoW. They have been trying to "balance" the game for over a decade, so I doubt they will achieve this with an experimental Vanilla server release.

No, every spec wasn't balanced. But all classes were respredented in endgame and quite frankly that's enough.

If you want to play Vanilla, then youre going to have to accept the good with the bad. That's what makes Vanilla...vanilla.

[AeneasBK]

But your video shows the exact same thing, so how is it misleading? Warriors and Rogues are objectively the best raw dps in Vanilla and when it comes to minmaxing they really do pull far ahead.. It's not misleading to point out that fact, and it gets even worse in Naxx because of how hard melee dps (and Warriors especially) scale with gear.

When a boss dies entirely within the duration Potion of Mighty Rage, Death Wish and Recklessness then yeah, its gonna make your DPS warriors look insane.

This isn't complicated.

[Marc7]

You say that because you've clearly never understood the design philosophy. Up until Wotlk, they did NOT intend all specs to be raid viable. They did NOT intend all specs to be PvP viable. You call them broken because you don't understand this. Each class had atleast one spec with design intended for PvP. Whether the spec was successful for PvP or not, is another story. Each class also had a spec designed for raiding.

The "all should be viable for everything" was idea for Wotlk (mostly because of the constant complaining from the Arena crowd, an addition Blizzard multiple times later said was a bad mistake). Even in late BC the classes had specs for PvE, and atleast one spec designed for PvP. Whether PvE spec was viable in PvP and vice versa, was coincidence, not by design.

I'm not saying they wanted all the specs be viable at everything. By no means. You are trying to make me a strawman for something I do not agree with.

But I am saying they didn't want some of the specs completely unplayable, like some are in vanilla. There are specs with literally no reason to exist, at least before the changes made to the talent system later in vanilla. Basically they were trap specs that anyone in the know would never put their points into, but people with less knowledge could have easily though that getting a melee bleed dot for their hunter is a good idea.

They have said themselves a long time ago that they didn't have time to prioritize fixing unusable specs before TBC rolled around because they were putting out fire most of vanilla's lifetime. TBC was the sweet spot to me in that there was a lot of synergy and identity to specs, as well as clear advantages to playing a certain spec over another in certain situations. As I said in the post you replied to (well, a sentence picked from which and then clearly misinterpreted is what you responded to), I'm not advocating for changing the talents. I don't know what they should do.

[Kalerender]

WoW: Classic needs to be Classic. Needs to be exactly as it was before 2.0 landed. No more, no less. Some major bug fixes obviously should be corrected (things that would bring down the server, like instance limits due to gold farmers causing so many instances to be open the servers went kaput - happened a lot after the release of Dire Maul) but none of this crying for balance junk.

Exactly the same. You wanted classic, make it classic, not "classic but with a few tweaks cause these parts of classic were bad/inconvenient."

[valky94]

With current WoW science, leaving the imbalance in the game would lead to tremendous class imbalances. There would only be a few classes "viable" for raids. This is why I think class balance should be addressed in Vanilla. They should at least tweak the numbers, but keep abilities the same. People played a wide variety of classes in the 2004 version simply because they didn't know any better.

while i do agree with you, that wont happen, cuz if they rebalance the classes, it wont be vanilla and if i remember correctly, on world first naxx they used a fury warr to dps, so you have that

[Anoregon]

Spec balance/design is the main reason a classic server has no appeal to me. There is a lot about classic that is worthy of the nostalgia people have for it, but that end of it really left a lot to be desired. I'd be much more interested in a TBC server, as there were significant strides made there to improve spec playability across the board while still maintaining class/spec identity and uniqueness.

[anon5123]

you have to figure that the market Blizz wants isn't 30 year olds that want to play but people that want to join and see "what all the hype is all about".

People who have never played vanilla before are way more likely to ragequit upon seeing how slow and grindy and frustrating it is.

"30 year olds" are the people who actually played it back in the day and want an official, non-pirated way to play it.

[Bigbazz]

I'll spell it out for you then. A 23 minute MC run isn't the norm. They're stacking classes that can cleave and burst, that's why you see so many warriors in there. They have damage CDs and can cleave down trash. Baron Geddon doesn't even live long enough to see the end of a warrior's recklessness CD.

Seriously look at their Naxx kill videos. Mages and Warlocks are consistently at the top. So stop claiming they get stomped by warriors and rogues because they aren't suited for speed runs.

Their Naxx kill videos? They have one, Kel'thuzad progression kill. A fight where melee gets little/no uptime for a great deal of the fight and yet the top 5 has 2 Warriors and a Rogue by the end of the fight... Maybe you're being more than misleading in your example?

[Laqweeta]

Play live if you want changes/qol.

Let classic stay classic please. Nostalrius didn't get popular because they had QoL changes.

[micwini]

People should stop whining about "change this, fix that". You want vanilla, you get your fucking vanilla. Im getting sick of seeing these whine threads from people who want changes made to Classic so that they might like it, while they were strongly against it just a few months ago.

If they are going to make any changes to classic, this will happen: People who want a pure vanilla experience won't even play it. The people who want to try it and have never played it before will quit in a few months because they dont like the grinding, chores etc.

[Nico3337]

Raids werent hard, the mechanics were for simpletons. The new raid mechanics are a million times more immersive... also: hit and elemental resistance gear=yaaaawn...

[Bigbazz]

There you go.

Yeah that's not really falling in line with what you say either, it's an isolated raid (so no benefit of pooling data from many guilds like raid stats) where Rogues, Warriors, Locks and Mages are all fighting for the top spot. Thaddius at the end, Mage, Warrior, Warrior, Warrior, Warrior.. If we look at raid stats we see the top dps on that fight is Warrior.

And what have we proven here? That only 4 specs/classes can do dps.

[Wildberry]

No, fuck off. If you want balanced classes go play retail.

That's hilarious.

[Allenseiei]

Tbh i laught at most of your arguments about how vanilla was so great when most of them you either still have them now and many others are just exaggerations, but lets keep it on topic.

This is why blizzard is in a crossroads. Purists vs non purists will be the new flame war. Before vanilla was announced all enthusiasts were all united in their little emotion war vs blizzard. Now the civil war between them will start, when some will demand vanilla to be as it was, because they want vanilla, not vanilla and cream. Others will demand QoL changes to the game and tweaks to make life easier or enjoyable from their PoV.

This quick divide between the vanilla enthusiasts, one that was early pointed out when the whole crywar started, is one of the reasons why even though i dont mind them getting their servers, I was still skeptical of their success.

[Lochton]

Sorry, all tweaks there should be on the classic server, is the fixes of bugs and exploits.