A World PvP Toggle Next Expansion!?

[Wildberry]

ANd now they are making it so I can choose when I want to participate in it or when I do not want to.....You are just mad that everyone with the flag on will be wanting to PVP and will likely know how to PVP and you can not go kill carebears that are on the server because their friends/raiding guild is there. Also you are likely scared that now you will not be on a server that is 90% one faction and have no fear of true retaliation. SO GROW A SET OF BALLS AND MAN UP.

You already made a choice to PvP by rolling on a PvP server. That's the choice. The opt-in/opt-out system already exists, roughly, they're called PvE servers.

Now don't get me wrong, I am a bit miffed that I can't kill people who are hilariously bad, then spam them with "PvP happened on a PvP server" when I get RealID friend requests. Toxic? Perhaps, but it's a legitimate form of gameplay.

More importantly than that, though, this is a negative change that's going to have a number of consequences aside from morons who rolled on PvP servers now being able to avoid PvP.

First, you seem to be under the impression that faction balance is going to be fixed. I would love it if that were to happen, but it's not, and it doesn't matter what Blizzard says. H/A ratios are skewed when looking at PvP realm population (which is the best metric we have). There's absolutely no reason to assume that opt-in PvP shards will be remotely balanced. There's simply no data to support that, only wishful thinking.

Beyond that, let's look at the opt-in/opt-out system itself. Now, Blizzard says they want to "incentivize people to opt-in." Okay, fair enough, but we do have to factor in that they have historically under-rewarded PvP. Given that they've gone on to say that they don't want to punish players for opting out, I don't think it's terribly unreasonable to assume the rewards are likely to be lackluster. With lackluster rewards, what incentive do people have to opt-in? What's to stop someone from completing all of their daily content, and quests, and then opting in when they're specifically looking to PvP? Such a change essentially removes the organic and dynamic aspects from WPvP and transforms the world into a quasi-battleground.

That's what bothers me. World PvP is ultimately being gutted. There's no reason to assume we're getting faction balance or anything of the sort. We're likely to see World PvP bastardized, etc. And for what? To cater to people who are salty that they got ganked on a server they made a conscious decision to play on?

Catering to bads, crybabies and the lowest common denominator is why this game is in the dismal state it is. But I obviously just need to "grow a pair" right? You can't possibly be wrong.

[Chaelexi]

You already made a choice to PvP by rolling on a PvP server. That's the choice. The opt-in/opt-out system already exists, roughly, they're called PvE servers.

Now don't get me wrong, I am a bit miffed that I can't kill people who are hilariously bad, then spam them with "PvP happened on a PvP server" when I get RealID friend requests. Toxic? Perhaps, but it's a legitimate form of gameplay.

More importantly than that, though, this is a negative change that's going to have a number of consequences aside from morons who rolled on PvP servers now being able to avoid PvP.

First, you seem to be under the impression that faction balance is going to be fixed. I would love it if that were to happen, but it's not, and it doesn't matter what Blizzard says. H/A ratios are skewed when looking at PvP realm population (which is the best metric we have). There's absolutely no reason to assume that opt-in PvP shards will be remotely balanced. There's simply no data to support that, only wishful thinking.

Beyond that, let's look at the opt-in/opt-out system itself. Now, Blizzard says they want to "incentivize people to opt-in." Okay, fair enough, but we do have to factor in that they have historically under-rewarded PvP. Given that they've gone on to say that they don't want to punish players for opting out, I don't think it's terribly unreasonable to assume the rewards are likely to be lackluster. With lackluster rewards, what incentive do people have to opt-in? What's to stop someone from completing all of their daily content, and quests, and then opting in when they're specifically looking to PvP? Such a change essentially removes the organic and dynamic aspects from WPvP and transforms the world into a quasi-battleground.

That's what bothers me. World PvP is ultimately being gutted. There's no reason to assume we're getting faction balance or anything of the sort. We're likely to see World PvP bastardized, etc. And for what? To cater to people who are salty that they got ganked on a server they made a conscious decision to play on?

Catering to bads, crybabies and the lowest common denominator is why this game is in the dismal state it is. But I obviously just need to "grow a pair" right? You can't possibly be wrong.

What you are currently labeling as "World PVP" is actuallyherp derp I just killed this new 110 ilvl 820 Warrior that is working on getting gear with my 935 ilvl, RAWR I AM SO STRONK. DOn't get me wrong I have done it too but I am more than happy that this aspect of the game is leaving. And not all of us have the really chosen to be on a PVP server because it is PVP. Many people are there because I have friends who play there or found a PVE raiding guild that plays on a PVP server but are not overly interested in when out in the world. Now this will allow people to have a choice of when to PVP. This will also kill the horrible practice of waiting at portal locations(Kara) and killing people before they have loaded in, because that is REAL WORLD PVP, look at my leet PVP SKILLZ, I killed you when you could not do anything about it.

Where as you say world PVP is being gutted, I see it as World PVP is being saved as people will have a true outlet to participate in it and not just rolling up on joe blow and killing them and /spitting. You are saying that this game is in a dismal state. The dismal state is created by the community if anything, and trolling and toxicity are half the issue. IF this gets rid of a form of trolling all the better.

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As for the ratio balance they can use the incentives to promote balance. Doing thing like call to arms where if the balance is off they can offer a bigger bonus to the faction that needs more people to flag PVP in a zone, either increasing drop rates of items, crafting mats and/or experience.

[Exodice]

Why do people need the option to make the choice again? Are these people too stupid to have made a decision they're happy with the first time?

This comment ignores the fact situations change, and in the past few years servers have changed drastically. A few years ago my PvP server was fairly well balanced - I initiated as many fights that were brought upon me. When servers merged we went from 50/50 Ally/Horde to 75-80% Horde. Being piled on constantly was not the PvP experience I was there for - sad for me and sad for my long term foes that we couldn't really do battle anymore because I was never anywhere in the world where there weren't about ten of them vs. only me.

I guess I am a moron for not predicting this would happen, but it never really felt like PvP if you were just being one shot or crushing an opponent through strength of numbers.

[Wildberry]

@Exodice Server transfer then, don't support a feature that kills PvP Servers (Which won't fix faction balance anyway).

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What you are currently labeling as "World PVP" is actuallyherp derp I just killed this new 110 ilvl 820 Warrior that is working on getting gear with my 935 ilvl, RAWR I AM SO STRONK.

Doesn't matter how you want to dismiss it, that does qualify as WPvP. Not everything has to be le ebin Southshore vs Tarren Mill.

And not all of us have the really chosen to be on a PVP server because it is PVP. Many people are there because I have friends who play there or found a PVE raiding guild that plays on a PVP server but are not overly interested in when out in the world

Doesn't matter, they consciously chose a PvP server, they should have to deal with the consequences. There's no reason to get rid of the concept of a PvP server because whiners want to have their cake and eat it too.

Now this will allow people to have a choice of when to PVP. This will also kill the horrible practice of waiting at portal locations(Kara) and killing people before they have loaded in, because that is REAL WORLD PVP, look at my leet PVP SKILLZ, I killed you when you could not do anything about it.

Are people who camp at spawns annoying? Yeah, and I'm saying that as someone who's far more toxic than average. That stuff bothers me. It's still World PvP. This is the problem with you types, you want to impose some high-minded, arbitrary definition onto an already defined concept, or pretend that WPvP is a measure of skill. It's not, and nobody is under the impression that it is (Skill in PvP outside of 3s is a bad meme). Nobody killed you at the Kara spawn to prove they were good, they did it because it was fun and funny.

Where as you say world PVP is being gutted, I see it as World PVP is being saved as people will have a true outlet to participate in it and not just rolling up on joe blow and killing them and /spitting.

No. This isn't a "glass half full/empty" scenario. There aren't different perspectives to this. It's very clear what the outcome is going to be. People are largely going to opt out while leveling and doing daily content, and opt-in only when they specifically want to PvP. That's neither dynamic, nor organic. There's no decision-making, no tenuous peace, no escalation, etc. We just turn things into a very large battleground with no objectives.

It's better for Joe Blow to get steamrolled and cyberbullied on forums than it is to kill world PvP because Joe Blow doesn't want to transfer.

You are saying that this game is in a dismal state. The dismal state is created by the community if anything, and trolling and toxicity are half the issue. IF this gets rid of a form of trolling all the better.

No, the dismal state we're in has been created by God awful developer decisions having horrible impacts on gameplay mechanics, and a larger sense of community. "Mean people ganking" isn't the reason this game is in decline.

As for the ratio balance they can use the incentives to promote balance. Doing thing like call to arms where if the balance is off they can offer a bigger bonus to the faction that needs more people to flag PVP in a zone, either increasing drop rates of items, crafting mats and/or experience.

No, you can't just dismiss this by pretending that magical incentives are going to fix the problem. We've tried that, and it's a Band-Aid at best. PvP server populations have already become drastically skewed when counted together. There simply won't be enough members of the opposing faction to create balanced shards. The best they can hope for is for things to be moderately skewed in one direction.

With regard to rewards, I've already addressed it, but apparently I have to repeat it. Blizzard consistently under-rewards PvP, this is simply inarguable. Beyond that, they've already gone on record as saying "they don't want people to feel punished for opting out." Given that quote, and their history on rewarding PvP, do you think they'll put in rewards that will motivate enough people to opt-in to fix faction balance? Even assuming they go forward with the CTA idea, it's extraordinarily unlikely. Especially if PvP shards end up going the route that they're likely to go: Open world Battlegrounds.

Getting experience, or crafting materials in such an environment really isn't going to be worth it. There's a ceiling to how much Blizzard is willing to reward opting in, and there's plenty of evidence to suggest that it's far lower than what would be efficient for players looking to level/gather mats/farm rep, etc.

tl;dr: Another bad design decision brought to you by the company that has been selling bad design decision for at least 7 years.

[Chaelexi]

[/QUOTE]

@Exodice Server transfer then, don't support a feature that kills PvP Servers (Which won't fix faction balance anyway).

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Doesn't matter how you want to dismiss it, that does qualify as WPvP. Not everything has to be le ebin Southshore vs Tarren Mill.

It is not entertaining game play for half of the party involved, which can lead to someone quitting the game and lowering population. Instead this person will have a choice of when and where he wants to participate. It give people the option without spending money to join a PVP shard or not. Since when is providing more options Bad?

Doesn't matter, they consciously chose a PvP server, they should have to deal with the consequences. There's no reason to get rid of the concept of a PvP server because whiners want to have their cake and eat it too.

What is the difference now except they can choose to come and go as they please. They have not gotten rid of the concept of PVP server they have just removed the cost limiting factor from people who do not want to transfer or can not afford to. Seems like you can have your cake and eat it too, you are just bitter that there will no longer be as many easy targets and you might get rolled a bit more(guessing your a 1750 arena player......)

Are people who camp at spawns annoying? Yeah, and I'm saying that as someone who's far more toxic than average. That stuff bothers me. It's still World PvP. This is the problem with you types, you want to impose some high-minded, arbitrary definition onto an already defined concept, or pretend that WPvP is a measure of skill. It's not, and nobody is under the impression that it is (Skill in PvP outside of 3s is a bad meme). Nobody killed you at the Kara spawn to prove they were good, they did it because it was fun and funny.

Did you just assume my type.......and yes much of WPVP is skill and you can get out played by a better player. And once again is it really worth angering a portion of the player base by allowing spawn camping to happen at portals..... Hmmm sounds like a working solution is to allow people to decide when they want to PVP and when they do not want to.....

No. This isn't a "glass half full/empty" scenario. There aren't different perspectives to this. It's very clear what the outcome is going to be. People are largely going to opt out while leveling and doing daily content, and opt-in only when they specifically want to PvP. That's neither dynamic, nor organic. There's no decision-making, no tenuous peace, no escalation, etc. We just turn things into a very large battleground with no objectives.

What was everyone's favorite world PVP place, a very large BG with no objective....... If you are too thick to realize that this is TM vs SS.

It's better for Joe Blow to get steamrolled and cyberbullied on forums than it is to kill world PvP because Joe Blow doesn't want to transfer.

How is Joe Blow going to get bullied on the forums, the mods stop that anyways.....Not sure where you are going with this and it is possible that Joe Blow has friends or a guild but hey you are still just bitter you can not go kill him when you want because likely the guy you are going to try to kill if going to roll you and your lack of skill because gear no longer saves you.

No, the dismal state we're in has been created by God awful developer decisions having horrible impacts on gameplay mechanics, and a larger sense of community. "Mean people ganking" isn't the reason this game is in decline.

I never said that mean people ganking is the reason the game is in decline but the lack of community is the reason the game is in decline. This will help create community because groups of people who want to pvp will have an outlet to and a chance to meet more like minded people.

No, you can't just dismiss this by pretending that magical incentives are going to fix the problem. We've tried that, and it's a Band-Aid at best. PvP server populations have already become drastically skewed when counted together. There simply won't be enough members of the opposing faction to create balanced shards. The best they can hope for is for things to be moderately skewed in one direction.

Know you are throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. Yes populations are skewed but this may also pull some of the people who are on a PVE server because of the same reasons the option to try PVP in the open world. There are just as many PVE server people who are in the wrong place because of friends, guilds or whatever else.

With regard to rewards, I've already addressed it, but apparently I have to repeat it. Blizzard consistently under-rewards PvP, this is simply inarguable. Beyond that, they've already gone on record as saying "they don't want people to feel punished for opting out." Given that quote, and their history on rewarding PvP, do you think they'll put in rewards that will motivate enough people to opt-in to fix faction balance? Even assuming they go forward with the CTA idea, it's extraordinarily unlikely. Especially if PvP shards end up going the route that they're likely to go: Open world Battlegrounds.

Getting experience, or crafting materials in such an environment really isn't going to be worth it. There's a ceiling to how much Blizzard is willing to reward opting in, and there's plenty of evidence to suggest that it's far lower than what would be efficient for players looking to level/gather mats/farm rep, etc.

Now you are making assumptions before they have released the system

tl;dr: Another bad design decision brought to you by the company that has been selling bad design decision for at least 7 years.

tl;dr Another whiny "PVPer" that can not gank lowbies or undergeared players that is crying that they are taking his ball away and making him actually L2P like he has told so many undergearded people before him.... I am sorry but this is in a long list of good decisions that they have made in the last 14 years.....there is a reason why this is still one of the most recognizable and successful franchises in the MMO landscape......Blizzard does things well and is even better at reverting mistakes.

Pot meet Kettle, guess what you both are black and both need to L2P

[Wildberry]

It is not entertaining game play for half of the party involved, which can lead to someone quitting the game and lowering population. Instead this person will have a choice of when and where he wants to participate. It give people the option without spending money to join a PVP shard or not. Since when is providing more options Bad?

If you want to play the "X might unsub because of a minor inconvenience card," it's just as fair to suggest that players may quit over PvP realms being gutted.

And I'm not arguing against options, I'm just stating that these options already exist. You can opt-in to PvP on a PvE realm. Players who don't want to be permanently flagged should play over there.

What is the difference now except they can choose to come and go as they please. They have not gotten rid of the concept of PVP server they have just removed the cost limiting factor from people who do not want to transfer or can not afford to. Seems like you can have your cake and eat it too, you are just bitter that there will no longer be as many easy targets and you might get rolled a bit more(guessing your a 1750 arena player......)

PvP servers entail being permanently flagged. That isn't the case in the new system. Yes, they have gotten rid of the concept of a PvP server. If people found it too costly to transfer, perhaps they shouldn't have rolled on one to begin with?

Not to mention, coming and going as one pleases opens up the system to abuse and does remove organic PvP. It actually transforms World PvP fundamentally. But hey, if I giggle every time I 1 shot a lowbie, and oppose shortsighted design ideas from Blizzard, I'm obviously in the rat leagues, right?

Did you just assume my type.......and yes much of WPVP is skill and you can get out played by a better player. And once again is it really worth angering a portion of the player base by allowing spawn camping to happen at portals..... Hmmm sounds like a working solution is to allow people to decide when they want to PVP and when they do not want to.....

Yes, you can get outplayed in WPvP, just like you can get outplayed in 2s. There's a reason that people who lean on their 2s rating are laughed at, though.

And again, you're breaking PvP servers to please a small minority of people who are apparently so sensitive, that a minor inconvenience at spawn portals needs to be done away with no matter the cost. First off, that's ridiculous. Second off, anyone who finds themselves in such a camp needs to take a long walk off a short pier. Third, why anger people who enjoy PvP servers by breaking them, when the people frustrated about spawn portals already have an alternative?

What was everyone's favorite world PVP place, a very large BG with no objective....... If you are too thick to realize that this is TM vs SS.

If you think Battle for Azeroth is bring TM v SS back, you're delusional. Beyond that, half the reason people see TM vs SS in such a light is because of nostalgia. I was there too, I enjoyed it, but it's not the entirety of World PvP.

How is Joe Blow going to get bullied on the forums, the mods stop that anyways.....Not sure where you are going with this and it is possible that Joe Blow has friends or a guild but hey you are still just bitter you can not go kill him when you want because likely the guy you are going to try to kill if going to roll you and your lack of skill because gear no longer saves you.

Yes, I totally lack skill because I'm not happy with World PvP becoming an inorganic, entirely voluntary experience. It's funny how in any World PvP discussion, you types always resort to claiming there's a skill deficit in the opposition.

I mean we've been over this before. World PvP doesn't take skill. People aren't good because they kill Joe Blow and his friends, they're not claiming that. Nobody who supports World PvP has ever been under the impression that it's a measure of skill. Skill comes from having a few 3s titles that aren't "Challenger."

Plus, I'm actually an advocate of going back to the PreBC system where, for example, 59s could kill 60s in low end raid gear. I don't like gear and level having the importance that they do, but nice try.

I never said that mean people ganking is the reason the game is in decline but the lack of community is the reason the game is in decline. This will help create community because groups of people who want to pvp will have an outlet to and a chance to meet more like minded people.

LFD and LFR totally had nothing to do with the decline of the in-game community, right? People who actively World PvP already have an outlet, they're called PvP servers. From what I recall, both Emerald Dream and Bleeding Hollow had a pretty healthy core community that focused on WPvP

Know you are throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. Yes populations are skewed but this may also pull some of the people who are on a PVE server because of the same reasons the option to try PVP in the open world. There are just as many PVE server people who are in the wrong place because of friends, guilds or whatever else.

Yeah, I'm going to need a citation for that last bit.

Now you are making assumptions before they have released the system

Yes, I am, because they've outlined the basics of the system, and it doesn't exactly take a Rick & Morty fan to figure out the broad strokes of impact from such a system.

tl;dr Another whiny "PVPer" that can not gank lowbies or undergeared players that is crying that they are taking his ball away and making him actually L2P like he has told so many undergearded people before him.... I am sorry but this is in a long list of good decisions that they have made in the last 14 years.....there is a reason why this is still one of the most recognizable and successful franchises in the MMO landscape......Blizzard does things well and is even better at reverting mistakes.

Pot meet Kettle, guess what you both are black and both need to L2P

Okay, so here we have some more comments about how I need to l2p (Again, hilarious how these discussions always come down to this. Apparently there's a negative correlation between reading ability and skill level or something. Whatever, I'm just going to trip into more elite gear and titles while I figure out how to play).

Then there's a bit where you pretend my only argument is that I like to gank lowbies (Admittedly, I do), and have pretty much ignored any of the other (far more strongly felt, on my end) arguments against this system. That's pretty typical for MMO-Champion posters.

There is a gem in there, I bolded it, I actually really like it Chaelexi. "Long list of good design decisions." Man, that's richer than everyone who had Garrisons for their alts in Warlords of Draenor! I trust you consider that a good design decision too?

Spoiler alert, though: The reason why this game is still the most recognizable and successful franchise in the MMO landscape is because all of the others have come too late. Obviously, nothing was going to really take momentum from WoW from Classic-WotLK. After Cataclysm though, it was really too late, even if the contenders hadn't been weak.

I mean congratulations to Blizzard, I guess? Yeah, you guys suck nowadays, but your competition sucks more, and the ones that don't are trying to capitalize on a market that really doesn't exist anymore, and this game is king of a shrinking hill because of inertia from Wrath and before. Hooray?

Come back with a better response next time, and not the usual tripe. I've dealt with that enough from the literal-1750s bads on the Official forums. If your next post is more intellectually dishonest garbage, I'm not going to be dignifying it with a reply.

[Chaelexi]

If you want to play the "X might unsub because of a minor inconvenience card," it's just as fair to suggest that players may quit over PvP realms being gutted.

And I'm not arguing against options, I'm just stating that these options already exist. You can opt-in to PvP on a PvE realm. Players who don't want to be permanently flagged should play over there.



PvP servers entail being permanently flagged. That isn't the case in the new system. Yes, they have gotten rid of the concept of a PvP server. If people found it too costly to transfer, perhaps they shouldn't have rolled on one to begin with?

Not to mention, coming and going as one pleases opens up the system to abuse and does remove organic PvP. It actually transforms World PvP fundamentally. But hey, if I giggle every time I 1 shot a lowbie, and oppose shortsighted design ideas from Blizzard, I'm obviously in the rat leagues, right?



Yes, you can get outplayed in WPvP, just like you can get outplayed in 2s. There's a reason that people who lean on their 2s rating are laughed at, though.

And again, you're breaking PvP servers to please a small minority of people who are apparently so sensitive, that a minor inconvenience at spawn portals needs to be done away with no matter the cost. First off, that's ridiculous. Second off, anyone who finds themselves in such a camp needs to take a long walk off a short pier. Third, why anger people who enjoy PvP servers by breaking them, when the people frustrated about spawn portals already have an alternative?


If you think Battle for Azeroth is bring TM v SS back, you're delusional. Beyond that, half the reason people see TM vs SS in such a light is because of nostalgia. I was there too, I enjoyed it, but it's not the entirety of World PvP.


Yes, I totally lack skill because I'm not happy with World PvP becoming an inorganic, entirely voluntary experience. It's funny how in any World PvP discussion, you types always resort to claiming there's a skill deficit in the opposition.

I mean we've been over this before. World PvP doesn't take skill. People aren't good because they kill Joe Blow and his friends, they're not claiming that. Nobody who supports World PvP has ever been under the impression that it's a measure of skill. Skill comes from having a few 3s titles that aren't "Challenger."

Plus, I'm actually an advocate of going back to the PreBC system where, for example, 59s could kill 60s in low end raid gear. I don't like gear and level having the importance that they do, but nice try.


LFD and LFR totally had nothing to do with the decline of the in-game community, right? People who actively World PvP already have an outlet, they're called PvP servers. From what I recall, both Emerald Dream and Bleeding Hollow had a pretty healthy core community that focused on WPvP


Yeah, I'm going to need a citation for that last bit.


Yes, I am, because they've outlined the basics of the system, and it doesn't exactly take a Rick & Morty fan to figure out the broad strokes of impact from such a system.



Okay, so here we have some more comments about how I need to l2p (Again, hilarious how these discussions always come down to this. Apparently there's a negative correlation between reading ability and skill level or something. Whatever, I'm just going to trip into more elite gear and titles while I figure out how to play).

Then there's a bit where you pretend my only argument is that I like to gank lowbies (Admittedly, I do), and have pretty much ignored any of the other (far more strongly felt, on my end) arguments against this system. That's pretty typical for MMO-Champion posters.

There is a gem in there, I bolded it, I actually really like it Chaelexi. "Long list of good design decisions." Man, that's richer than everyone who had Garrisons for their alts in Warlords of Draenor! I trust you consider that a good design decision too?

Spoiler alert, though: The reason why this game is still the most recognizable and successful franchise in the MMO landscape is because all of the others have come too late. Obviously, nothing was going to really take momentum from WoW from Classic-WotLK. After Cataclysm though, it was really too late, even if the contenders hadn't been weak.

I mean congratulations to Blizzard, I guess? Yeah, you guys suck nowadays, but your competition sucks more, and the ones that don't are trying to capitalize on a market that really doesn't exist anymore, and this game is king of a shrinking hill because of inertia from Wrath and before. Hooray?

Come back with a better response next time, and not the usual tripe. I've dealt with that enough from the literal-1750s bads on the Official forums. If your next post is more intellectually dishonest garbage, I'm not going to be dignifying it with a reply.

I have already won, you admitted you are the scum of the earth that gank and camp lowbies..... gut hey now we know your true motive to complaining about the changes. It removes you being a shitty person and make you actually have to fight people who will steamroll you......to quote you, TYPICAL MMO-CHAMP poster.

[Wildberry]

I have already won, you admitted you are the scum of the earth that gank and camp lowbies..... gut hey now we know your true motive to complaining about the changes. It removes you being a shitty person and make you actually have to fight people who will steamroll you......to quote you, TYPICAL MMO-CHAMP poster.

Then there's a bit where you pretend my only argument is that I like to gank lowbies (Admittedly, I do), and have pretty much ignored any of the other (far more strongly felt, on my end) arguments against this system. That's pretty typical for MMO-Champion posters.

What's it like being illiterate?

[Omaski]

Why do people need the option to make the choice again? Are these people too stupid to have made a decision they're happy with the first time? I swear, players like this are the reason I have to waste time in the "Are you sure you really want to delete this item?" window. Additionally, such a system poses a number of risks and has the potential to create more problems than it actually solves. For example, should the incentives for opting into PvP be underwhelming (And historically PvP rewards have been. Given that Blizzard stated they don't want to "punish" players for not opting in, there's no reason to assume the rewards will be adequate), what stops players from opting out of PvP while doing daily content and quests, and opting in only when they're actively looking to PvP? Such an outcome would basically kill the organic aspect of WPvP and remove dynamic elements from it, essentially turning the world into a quasi-Battleground.

As someone who probably has a better run in arena than you do, being ganked is PvP. You can dismiss it as cowardly, but it is PvP. Here's the OED definition of the word "versus":



There's nothing in the definition to suggest that the parties involved be comparable, or remotely on even footing. Only that they're against one another. I'm sorry, but mental gymnastics, and the projection of your own ideas onto words is a horrible look for someone describing others as having "simple brains."

My reply to your "versus" definition would be that the word "sport" carries an implied "even footing" with it. If you asked a gladiator to fight a child/woman, he would decline saying,"there is no sport in an uneven fight", i would assume that you agree, No?

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If you want to play the "X might unsub because of a minor inconvenience card," it's just as fair to suggest that players may quit over PvP realms being gutted.

And I'm not arguing against options, I'm just stating that these options already exist. You can opt-in to PvP on a PvE realm. Players who don't want to be permanently flagged should play over there.



PvP servers entail being permanently flagged. That isn't the case in the new system. Yes, they have gotten rid of the concept of a PvP server. If people found it too costly to transfer, perhaps they shouldn't have rolled on one to begin with?

Thats not always the case though, some players, myself included, didnt initially get into PvP soon as I downloaded WoW, but i joined a PvP server because all my friends, who were PvE'ers happened to be on that server. I also prefer servers in my timezone, and id like to think im not the only one, who looked at the Ally:horde ratio as well when it came to both PvP and PvE because of a wider pool of potential good players.

TLDR; there are many other factors involved in picking a server rather than just if you want to PvE or PvP

[Ragedaug]

World PVP is being fixed. Only people who actually want to partake in World PVP will be flagged. Enjoying the tears of all the griefers who are mad that the people who never wanted to fight them in the first place are escaping them. Guess you gankers will have to find people who actually want to fight you if you want to WPVP.

Crazy concept I know.

[Aleksej89]

You want PvP = PVP on, you get moved to a "shard" with other PVPers.

You want PVE = PVE only on, you get moved to a "shard" with other PVE players.

As blizz explained it you will not be seeing much (if any) PVE players if your PVP mode is on.

[Ragedaug]

What's it like being illiterate?

That's an odd question to ask on a forum where the only way to communicate is to read and write. Guessing you don't know what that word means?

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=illiterate

- - - Updated - - -

You want PvP = PVP on, you get moved to a "shard" with other PVPers.

You want PVE = PVE only on, you get moved to a "shard" with other PVE players.

As blizz explained it you will not be seeing much (if any) PVE players if your PVP mode is on.

AND you'll be seeing more players who actively want to PVP. This seems like a win-win for every WoW PVPer who's not only interested in one-shotting lowbies.

[Omaski]

You had a choice when you rolled on a PvP server. L2read or L2play, there's your choice.

Well, it seems to me that, while players did actively decide to join a PvP server, once BfA drops, it will be time for you to make an active decision....accept the change and adapt...or continue to complain on forums, there's your choice.

[Wildberry]

That's an odd question to ask on a forum where the only way to communicate is to read and write. Guessing you don't know what that word means?

Oh look, another case of On-the-spectrum MMO-Champion posters failing to recognize hyperbole.

[Chaelexi]

What's it like being illiterate?

The rest of your argument is fluff:

It is going to get rid of organic PVP: but the most organic and best world pvp was TM vs SS and this will likely bring that back. As for the rest of world PVP it was not organic as it was usually forced by one person vs someone who is not usually willing. That is not happening naturally. But hey it is the same as saying she dressed that way, she deserved to be raped.

As for the ganker population quitting, I am willing to put money on it that this population is smaller than the people annoyed at being ganked population. SO it fits the sacrifice a few to save the many.

Has Blizzard made some mistakes.... Of course but they also learn from their mistakes and fix them next release or earlier. Look at your Garrison to the Class Halls, better in everyway. Lowbie ganking to no lowbie ganking. all improvements on mistakes.

Oh PVP titles, you likely bought them...... I know cause I sold them and epic gear is given out like candy, I have alts that just hit 110 that are 920 ilvl. So once again your argument is moot.

The L2P came from you liking to BM people who you gank.....I am sure you have told enough people that and now you will be forced to, or you will quit making everyone have to work a bit harder because there is one less terrible queuing for arenas.

[Wildberry]

It is going to get rid of organic PVP: but the most organic and best world pvp was TM vs SS and this will likely bring that back. As for the rest of world PVP it was not organic as it was usually forced by one person vs someone who is not usually willing. That is not happening naturally. But hey it is the same as saying she dressed that way, she deserved to be raped.

No, it's really not like that at all. Nice try, but that's a blatant false equivalency. It doesn't matter if one person initiates, both exposed themselves to PvP in such a manner by choosing to play on a PvP server.

It's nice to see that you acknowledge that organic world PvP will be hindered by this.

With regard to TM v. SS, what about the new system would increase the likelihood of this occurring that doesn't already exist in some fashion on live servers?

As for the ganker population quitting, I am willing to put money on it that this population is smaller than the people annoyed at being ganked population. SO it fits the sacrifice a few to save the many.

Surely you're not trying this, right? In any case: [Citation Needed]

Has Blizzard made some mistakes.... Of course but they also learn from their mistakes and fix them next release or earlier. Look at your Garrison to the Class Halls, better in everyway. Lowbie ganking to no lowbie ganking. all improvements on mistakes.

Class Halls are still pretty shitty honestly. Class design has become abysmal (They actually doubled down on pruning), etc.

Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with lowbie ganking
.

Oh PVP titles, you likely bought them...... I know cause I sold them and epic gear is given out like candy, I have alts that just hit 110 that are 920 ilvl. So once again your argument is moot.

"You probably bought your PvP titles because you admitted to enjoying ganking people occasionally. And everyone who does that is bad because reasons."
You people are absolutely delusional...

The L2P came from you liking to BM people who you gank.....I am sure you have told enough people that and now you will be forced to, or you will quit making everyone have to work a bit harder because there is one less terrible queuing for arenas.

Nice argument, nerd.

In all sincerity, what is it about ganking lowbies that elicits such a reaction? I mean, that's not even the core of my argument here. I'm shrugging my shoulders at that part, I dislike the fact that the world is going to become an open world battleground and the organic feel of World PvP is going away. Yet somehow, you seem convinced that I'm some baddie stuck in the rat league, unless I pay e-shekels for titles, because I don't sperg out and kneejerk any time the subject of "ganking lowbies" comes up.

Were you bullied in school or something?

[MrExcelion]

This probably isn't a bold prediction but I think a large portion of the ganking/camping contingent will move over to classic wow, ie:
like this https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...c_rogue_named/

Rogues really were the best

[Chaelexi]

No, it's really not like that at all. Nice try, but that's a blatant false equivalency. It doesn't matter if one person initiates, both exposed themselves to PvP in such a manner by choosing to play on a PvP server.

It's nice to see that you acknowledge that organic world PvP will be hindered by this.

With regard to TM v. SS, what about the new system would increase the likelihood of this occurring that doesn't already exist in some fashion on live servers?



Surely you're not trying this, right? In any case: [Citation Needed]



Class Halls are still pretty shitty honestly. Class design has become abysmal (They actually doubled down on pruning), etc.

Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with lowbie ganking
.

"You probably bought your PvP titles because you admitted to enjoying ganking people occasionally. And everyone who does that is bad because reasons."
You people are absolutely delusional...


Nice argument, nerd.

In all sincerity, what is it about ganking lowbies that elicits such a reaction? I mean, that's not even the core of my argument here. I'm shrugging my shoulders at that part, I dislike the fact that the world is going to become an open world battleground and the organic feel of World PvP is going away. Yet somehow, you seem convinced that I'm some baddie stuck in the rat league, unless I pay e-shekels for titles, because I don't sperg out and kneejerk any time the subject of "ganking lowbies" comes up.

Were you bullied in school or something?

What is it about killing some lowbie that is so fun. Why is making someones gaming experience unenjoyable so enjoyable unless you are are a crappy human being?

And as for the reason I know you are a crap PVP player is that I have you so triggered by calling out your ability that you likely tilt easily and tank your rating. LOL calling someone a Nerd.....there is a reason why Bill Gates said be nice to use cause you will end up working for us in the end..... Because being a technically smart person is a bad thing.


And as for your first point this will still happen by CHOOSING TO FLAG YOURSELF.....Except these people will be ready for your antics and you do not like that they are taking your ability to be a jerk away. Wait I figured it out you are the guy I on the rogue I trolled this morning on my 105 rogue at the invasion. Got mad cause I cheap shotted you while you were ganking someone else and you died from bleeds, tried to chase me down but I out smarted you like 6 times.......

[Charge me Doctor]

The point of being on a PvP server is not having a choice in the freaking matter.

That's not "the point of being on a PvP server", it's your weird opinion.

This change allows players who want to PvP at this time to be with people who want to PvP, which is great idea. You will only meet those, who want to PvP, which will make it a great challenge (like WPVP ever was any kind of challenge...) and be more interesting.

I'm leaving mine on anyways

[Chaelexi]

The point of being on a PvP server is not having a choice in the freaking matter.

There will not be a PVP server just a PVP flag. LOVE IT.