I don't think people realize how easy the raids will actually be.

[Blackmist]

Oh, the raids will be easy. What won't be easy is getting to 60 and expecting to be allowed to raid as a moonkin, shadow priest or ret pally.

[Echocho]

You're basing vanilla difficulty on MC?? That's like basing Legion difficulty on EN

[Beazy]

If you really think it's going to be more difficult for the content to be cleared in classic, I really don't know what to tell you. We have just about every aspect min/maxed and years of original vanilla and private server runs let us know exactly how each fight besides Naxx will go. I will even wager that it will take less time to clear the first raiding tier of content in Classic then it took to down mythic KJ.

Really? How many people are going to have the rep to douse the runes in MC within the first 30 days? How many people will remember to free the captian attunement and have a full set of DSet for MC in 30 days?

Did you even play V WoW?

[Tonkaden]

The issue with vanilla raids is getting 40 people with decent gear. Gear drops were extremely scarce in Vanilla. We are getting about 1 item per 5 people right now, back in vanilla you had a 40man boss drop 2-3 items, many of which were useless because they were horribly itemized.

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Good luck getting past Vaelastrasz with 15 people in dungeon gear.

I guess you didn't do too well in the reading comprehension part. He said Molten Core will be 10-15 manned. The last time I checked, Vael wasn't in Molten Core...

[Heathy]

Oh, the raids will be easy. What won't be easy is getting to 60 and expecting to be allowed to raid as a moonkin, shadow priest or ret pally.

depends really pretty sure most guilds had at least one token ret/boom/sp. but ofc most ppl who want to play offspecs like that will have to respec most likely.

I'm thinking there will be a least one dedicated group of ppl who'll take the opportunity to try to plough through the content as fast as is possible but gearing up was a huge bottleneck so even if t1 is smashed t2 to aq40 and from there to t3 won't exactly get smashed just because its going to take xx number of lockouts to gear everyone up.

[babyback]

If your primary incentive for playing vanilla WoW is raiding then you're doing it wrong.

Is there any other incentive? I mean to be successful in PvP you needed PvE gear and outside of leveling to 60 there wasn’t really much to do other than raiding.

[Deleted]

And assuming Blizzard isn't dumb, Classic will be bundled with a WoW sub, so it'd be 'free'.

Not really those who have subs will be mostly on live. And those who are the big vanilla hipsters are coming from private servers so will now have to pay or as I expect stay on there private server's.

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Is there any other incentive? I mean to be successful in PvP you needed PvE gear and outside of leveling to 60 there wasn’t really much to do other than raiding.

There wasn't even enough quests to ding 60 at one point. U think wod was lite on end game content wait till you see vanilla. Shit we had to make our own content for a while befor bgs were added with ss vs tm

[babyback]

Not really those who have subs will be mostly on live. And those who are the big vanilla hipsters are coming from private servers so will now have to pay or as I expect stay on there private server's.

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There wasn't even enough quests to ding 60 at one point. U think wod was lite on end game content wait till you see vanilla. Shit we had to make our own content for a while befor bgs were added with ss vs tm

I played since launch so I am aware how little there was to do. Hence my post. The last 4 levels to 60 I grinded bears and bats in EPL.

[wholol]

Is there any other incentive? I mean to be successful in PvP you needed PvE gear and outside of leveling to 60 there wasn’t really much to do other than raiding.

PvE gear in vanilla was a commodity, not many had access to it, you did not need to be decked in top tier pve in vanilla to be successful in pvp.

Sure it would obviously be a clear advantage but you are viewing it from the pov of someone who is playing recent expansions.

The race to end game in vanilla wasnt the point, u don't want to rush to lvl 60 on a vanilla server , you want to make friends and go on adventures.

You'll hit max lvl eventually and end game isn't going anywhere, since raids are set in stone and you already know how to clear them that isn't the drive that should be propelling you to play vanilla.

As for pvp, you can spam bgs just as well on live , you can even get the same titles from rbgs, thats why I feel you're viewing vanilla server as a "new" content but it's more like a new ( or old ) mentality, dont rush it, savour it.

[Deleted]

I played since launch so I am aware how little there was to do. Hence my post. The last 4 levels to 60 I grinded bears and bats in EPL.

I got a hunter friend to help grind silithid :/ I now hate being In any desert in games

[babyback]

PvE gear in vanilla was a commodity, not many had access to it, you did not need to be decked in top tier pve in vanilla to be successful in pvp.

Sure it would obviously be a clear advantage but you are viewing it from the pov of someone who is playing recent expansions.

The race to end game in vanilla wasnt the point, u don't want to rush to lvl 60 on a vanilla server , you want to make friends and go on adventures.

You'll hit max lvl eventually and end game isn't going anywhere, since raids are set in stone and you already know how to clear them that isn't the drive that should be propelling you to play vanilla.

As for pvp, you can spam bgs just as well on live , you can even get the same titles from rbgs, thats why I feel you're viewing vanilla server as a "new" content but it's more like a new ( or old ) mentality, dont rush it, savour it.

The main issue is that the mindset of players have changed since vanilla. Vanilla was more of an rpg and no one really thought of rushing to max lvl to raid.

Why I think many will grow tired of the classic servers very quickly is how slow paced the game was. The main focus of vanilla was the 1-60 experience while nowadays it’s max level content.

I don’t think I will go back to play classic again. I’m done with it and it’s doesn’t offer me anything.

[Deleted]

And as someone currently paying a WoW sub, I'd play Vanilla. As would many others.

Sub retention would be the goal if they bundle it, and sub retention is significantly more valuable to them than new subs at this point. There are not enough new subs to justify remaking the old game - As you say, people who play on private servers would just stay on private servers if they had to pay.

But if it's bundled with new WoW, it's not only incentive for people to buy and play the new expansion, it also gives them the experience they want on the side together with it.

It's also incentive for people who play current WoW to try Vanilla. If they then don't like Vanilla, they are free to ignore it and move on with their lives. If they do, that's sub retention.

The major question that won't be answered till it's tried is how many new players from sub holders will the vanilla server retain? It is an 04 game with 04 graphics that requires a big time investment at the end of the day.

Going of the small metric which is my social circle, friends and guild mates in a couple of guilds. Most have said they only have time for live. Of those who said they will play classic all but 1 are only gonna play it during down time between raid tiers that remaining 1 is gonna play only classic ( and good ridden's cos he's a total twat tbh)

But some of those who said there gonna do it between tiers also do overwatch with me between tiers so how that time split is gonna happen idk

Guess we have to wait and see but I'm a pessimist.

[Mikah]

People seem to forget how much difference there was between players back then. For most guilds, the biggest hurdle was fielding 40 players with a minimum of resist gear.

There were a lot of addons and websites like elitist jerks, but it was a minority of players that were properly informed. Not even half the players were using damage meters, and most were completely clueless on how bad they were. Heck, most of the people did not even have enchantments on their gear, or had no idea what stats to go for. Spirit gear ftw as dps! Let alone those who were into pvp and raided in pvp specs.

I was not in a hardcore guild obviously, but I cleared ZG, AQ20, MC, BWL and a couple of bosses in Naxx and AQ40.

I remember the difference in dps or healing between the top players and the bottom players to be as high as four fold. And that was not just because of gear. And you always had 5-10 players that never saw the end of a fight alive. Most boss fights were also a lot more forgiving. A mistake could result in you dying, but rarely in an automatic raid wipe as we see today.

And for the osses that needed you to spamclick decursive, you relied on 3-4 players that were on the ball, knowing the other ones were too busy mouth breathing.


Fast forward to now, most guilds do not tolerate people without flasks and food buffs, optimal gems and enchants, and everyone knows exactly what is the best spec and have a BiS list for every boss fight.


And yet, I think the biggest difference will be in learning. Most of us that did raid back in Vanilla could probably still do those bosses blindfolded. That includes Naxx, from Wrath. Even though it was tuned much harder in Vanilla, it still removes the learning curve of knowing what to do if you have farmed the place for months.

[Demithio]

This isn't mean to be a "shit" post to Vanilla WoW. It has pros that vastly beat current WoW at (vice-versa as well).

I just wanted to quickly talk about this (before I go to bed too), because I know many are expecting awesome stuff from classic return. Dungeons, quests, slow leveling, the RPG aspect (basically the whole jazz) will be fun to return to. I do however, want to touch upon the raiding. I think the main reason why Vanilla raiding was so "fun and challenging" was because, for the most part, the game was new and people were new to this kind of stuff. It was a different game.

Preparing for raids, the farming, the 40 peoples, and so forth, were the hard part. The actual content, was never difficult. There was a post sometime ago by a fella here (He was from paragon world top guild, so he can vouch (hopefully)) that he actually thought that all of this content was doable with 20 players and the other 20 doing warm body stuff (standing there, being there for mechanics and so forth). And he said this for Sapphiron. Now imagine that when all 40 people are actually decently skilled, and have knowledge on the mechanics of vanilla wow raiding. Threat meters, debuff limits, rogues taking off poisons, all that jazz... It won't be too much.

The MC rehash that Blizzard did back in 2014 wasn't much of a success or a good incarnation and it's only because they dastardly overtuned the living crap out of it. I think Tanks were almost able to get 1 shotted at the time during the event (I died to a single hit from Ragnaros -_-).

Only wanted to add to this, but don't be surprised that once people get to 60, guilds start forming, raids get cleared quickly. As Noxious said, the real challenge will be the leveling and dungeons, while the raiding will be the part where easy stuff can happen.

You may be correct about vanilla raiding. However, I don't recall raiding being all that great in original vanilla either (TBC was the pinnacle of raiding). I think the idea is to be far more about the leveling / RPG experience and far less about raiding. Raiding was a pain the the ass back then with 40 people ect (so glad when TBC came along)

On the other hand, level 60 characters are far less powerful, with far fewer 'tricks' then now. Just because current "experienced" raiders can bowl over current content does not mean they will under vanilla conditions. Things have changed a lot since those days. The main thing i'm looking for is the dungeon experience, which has never been nearly as epic since vanilla.

[Deleted]

Has there actually been any talk about Raid Design and how Encounters will be played? Tactics, Skill sets, etc.

[barrsftw]

If raids are so easy, why are "bad specs" (ret paladin, shadow priest, boomkim etc) actively discouraged?

If you don't care about topping the dps meter and only downing the boss, then specs wouldn't matter.

A lot of if is gear. Gear was optimized for one play style per class for the most part.

[Belisaurio]

The main issue is that the mindset of players have changed since vanilla. Vanilla was more of an rpg and no one really thought of rushing to max lvl to raid.

Don't have any problem with that. WoW will have another expansion called Battle for Azeroth, so maybe it's what this people want to play, and not classic.

[Deleted]

Such wall of nonsense, everything you just said apply way more to todays raiding than the vanilla.
Then time invested was required, its first now in Legion it is rewarded (AP/legs).

And to make a just as obvious example, more raiding mages then were able to decurse in MC compared to todays mages in TW MC.
This is what the simplification, addons, guides and such do to the skill-level of the player base.

Show me your cutting edge achievements and I will take you seriously.

No actual skilled raider thinks that time invested in todays mythic is even close to skill needed. In vanilla I cleared whole MC with auto attack, good luck doing anything similar in todays hardest difficulty. And if you think mages decursing is as difficult as timing the debuff dispell on tanks on mythic KJ, you're delusional.

The only difficulty that existed in vanilla was hard tuning, solved by gear, needed time.

[Deleted]

Toward the middle of BC we formed a 40 man raid of geared level 70 players, then went to AQ40. Many of the players had been there before. We lololol'ed our way through the instance, then..

1) PULL 'Twin Emperors'
2) WIPE
3) GOTO 1)

We never saw C'thun that evening.

[Oakshana]

Wow, one mechanic that makes you a bomb! if only retail had something that hard!

Yes. Being the bomb was a simple mechanic compared to all the shit in today's encounters. My point wasn't that it was hard or even difficult. It's that people get lax and stop paying attention. Most of the mechanics in vanilla raiding had more to do with gear checks and simply surviving through a brutal debuff placed on you by the boss.