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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurytos View Post
    Judgement still looks to be Colossus Judgement, increasing dmg of finishers. I'm so frustrated by this.
    sole reason i might quit my paladin that i played since TBC...
    it has been a long road..and i put too much time into this char

    But clunky, walking on a swamp mobility and colossus smash mechanic is not fun at all.
    Real shame

  2. #282
    As Im gonna keep saying a ton throughout this beta that will come up: If they want this play style to work the talent tree needs to reflect it and not be a shit show it was all of Legion. What held us back the most wasn't exactly the mechanic but the lack of supporting talents and options. So just to throw my mind set right now/what im thinking into a semi brain storm a few things need to occur.

    Things that need to go Baseline
    -Wake of Ashes
    -Divine Purpose
    -Blade of Wrath
    -Consecration
    -Judge Unworthy a baseline effect.

    Talent Changes
    -Final Verdict: Act like WoD Final Verdict.
    --Divine Storm: Should be available at lower levels to compensate
    -Execution Sentence: Needs to be instant damage imo
    -Turalyon's Might: Charges the enemy dealing Holy Damage and generating 3 Holy Power.

    -Greater Judgment: Now functions like Titanic Might, increase Duration and Lower CD.
    -Zeal: Lower CD and 1 more charge than Crusader Strike
    -The Fires of Justice: Feels nice as is imo. Could be considered to remove CS cd.

    -Divine Hammer: Same as before, also procs off Blade of Wrath, if you use it again before CD runs out hammers erupt from you dealing damage to all enemies.
    -Virtue Blade: Blade of Justice generates 1 additional Holy Power
    -Blade of Light: Your Blade of Wrath proc now also causes you to deal Holy damage to your primary target and targets around them and cause your next Holy Power spender to cost no Holy Power.

    100 Row
    -Judgment Blade: Your holy power damaging abilities no longer need Judgment debuff to be active on the target to gain mastery effect. In addition Judgment gains 100% more bonus from Mastery.
    -Crusade: Your Judgment ability lowers Avenging Wrath cooldown by 5 - 10 seconds.
    -Ashes to Dust: Your Wake of Ashes now has a 10 second cooldown and deals more damage.

    ^All of these options would compliment the current system and enhance our Judgment mechanic.

    Does it answer all the problems, all the issues. No. It does not. BUT, what this does do is take a mechanic and smooth it out to be less crap.
    Last edited by Ulthane; 2017-11-08 at 05:35 AM.

  3. #283
    High Overlord Kuriyama's Avatar
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    I'm very sad. RIP my Ret Paladin. 2007-2017. I've had enough. I'm not willing to wait and see if we get a complete overhaul in 8.0. I just have absolutely no faith in Blizzard. After they ignored the pages of feedback on the official forums during alpha and beta, stating how SHIT and terrible of an idea GBoM was. It took them until ToV to remove it. They've also tried and failed to balance us around Crusade the whole expansion. Oh and Holy Wrath has been a thing this whole time. Literally the worst talent tree. I'm annoyed as I've got every Ret leggo but it's time for a change...

    I'm gearing my DK for BfA. At least with it I can still off-tank and have the choice of TWO DPS specs, rather than one constantly gimped spec.

    Also, I wanted to go Warrior but my guild currently has FOUR DPS Warriors and they even recruited a FIFTH while I was on holiday. Goddammit. And they bitch about how we always have too much melee. Go figure.

  4. #284
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    At least the devs didn't horribly drop the ball on it and literally tell people not to play it?

    But I do agree Ret sucked...I was so disappointed with it since I really enjoyed it in WoD.

  5. #285
    High Overlord Kuriyama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excellion View Post
    At least the devs didn't horribly drop the ball on it and literally tell people not to play it?

    But I do agree Ret sucked...I was so disappointed with it since I really enjoyed it in WoD.
    I loved WoD Ret. Exorcism procs, Hammer of Wrath, Empowered Divine Storm, Divine Purpose being viable....brilliant. Then 7.0 came out and I took the side of "It could get better....right?" I should've just joined the masses of Paladins who re-rolled with that patch...

  6. #286
    Another page gone by with people completely ignoring Retribution passive...

    Are you guys going to be happy if it stays for 8.0?

    Makes me sad...


    Madness will consume you!!!

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by killwithpwr View Post
    Another page gone by with people completely ignoring Retribution passive...

    Are you guys going to be happy if it stays for 8.0?

    Makes me sad...
    Another shitstain upon the face of already shitstained spec doth not a spec define.
    One of our worries #146

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Another shitstain upon the face of already shitstained spec doth not a spec define.
    One of our worries #146
    Well, if we get theough to blizzard (somehow) on the other stupidities that they need to change within our spec, and Retribution is not removed... It will be shitty enough


    Madness will consume you!!!

  9. #289
    Ok, here is my thoughts on ret, short answer: it's bad, primarily in two aspects - gameplay and class fantasy (design).
    Long answer: current ret primarily suffers from lack of quality assurance and less so creativity, what I mean by that is I can kinda see where this legion overhaul is coming from but I think it was simply implemented in a lazy way.

    Auras: auras at the time of its removal needed reworking, I mean did you ever hear ppl say "gush I wish we had a paladin with a devotion aura" I bet 90% of the time auras were clicked on was when you would just randomly switching it on and off jumping around waiting for something. Aura mastery on the other hand was cool, but not really a ret kinda thing isn't it? In my opinion auras should either work like a druid sprinty roar kind of thing or be as they were before but with ties to the gameplay (some sort of interaction between auras and seals probably)

    Seals: same thing pretty much, it made sense for vanilla/tbc but that's just about it. Switching SoT/SoR on packs vs ST was not a fun or exiting experience. Empowered Seals IMO was a brilliant talent that addressed this issue even tho it was a bit clunky and slow, I know many would disagree but I think it does fit the theme for ret to be a bit slow yet unstoppable might once its fully charged. Anyways it's needed reworking, not removal.

    Def cds: bubble and bop are cool abilities, current SoV and now gone DP are kind of meh'y tho it sort of does its job, something like sacred shield is something I'am more interested in, +crit chance for FoL back in the days was a nice thing, you might say that it'll never be enough absorb on it's own and I agree but it is something that could be tied to devotion aura for example.

    Movement speed: Long arm of law + EMS buff gave us almost permanent sprint, is it convenient? absolutely, does it fit paladin theme? not a chance. I know you guys like it but I think mounted combat in wow looks super silly and I really don't like this horse spell. I think simply adding a moderate speed increase to Freedom would be enough, probably with some emphasis on 'unstopability'

    DPS/hitting abilities: to hell with colossus judge but otherwise I think its more or less alright'ish although some spicyness/depth would be welcomed. I agree with the idea that paladin suppose to be melee but not too melee, for instance: Final Verdict - yay, Exorcism - nay. I dont really think that we should throw judges/exos/WoG 40 yards away, on the other hand current ret feels a bit like a warrior that who just learned a few spells.

    Healing/Offhealing: I can get why WoG was a bit too much but what the hell happened to Selfless healer? Aren't we suppose to be the once who bring that kind of utility? What happened to Art of war? For instance wouldn't it be nice to lets say get an Art of war proc, throw it on some poor soul topping it up and get that healing number as a damage to your next verdict? Ideally ret should be able to deal with things like Yoggs brain room as the only healing source, if played correctly ofc.

    Idk, your thoughts?
    And btw sorry for this grammatical cringefest.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by killwithpwr View Post
    Another page gone by with people completely ignoring Retribution passive...

    Are you guys going to be happy if it stays for 8.0?

    Makes me sad...
    Yea.... it just feels weird. Hey i wanna parse, die please.

    Weird as in: nope

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    Yea.... it just feels weird. Hey i wanna parse, die please.

    Weird as in: nope
    Never understood why Retribution wasn't something more like, "When an ally dies, the paladin cries out for retribution, inspiring party/raid members and increasing their damage by X % for X seconds."

    The new Lightforged Draenei passive seems closer to something sensible.

  12. #292
    Herald of the Titans Eurytos's Avatar
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    The passive is, of course, trash. In many groups, depending on the size and skill of the group, one person dying can be a wipe. The passive does very little to stop that. In my raid group we are farming heroic ToS, everything is pretty easy for us in there right now. I raid with one other ret paladin, and on the easier bosses, we'll take turns dying toward the end just so the other can top the meters. Nonetheless, when we were progressing, and when we do mythic fights, its crucial that everyone lives. If folks are dying, a few second of extra dmg doesn't do much.

    If I'm being honest though, the passive is further down on my list of things that need to change. Judgement is like the number one thing, by a wide margin.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rytoz/advanced

    If there's one thing I'm not, it's in control.

  13. #293
    I just want my instant Flash of Light and the old Word of Glory back and i'd be content. I really miss the selfhealing! I wanna hybrid the shit of ret, switch between dps and heals all the time, or even tank with good ol' Righteous Fury! Man, I miss that SO so much...
    Well met!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Man even if Blizzard gave players bars of gold, they would complain that they were too heavy.

  14. #294
    Herald of the Titans Eurytos's Avatar
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    Selfless Healer is a fantastic ret ability. Makes no sense to have gotten rid of it.

    And righteous fury...of all the truly pointless things to remove, why would they remove it? I enjoy ret tanking dungeouns late in the expac when I overpower them, being prot slows the group down. Hell, with selfless healer, I can tank and heal the group basically! Righteous Fury was the ideal kind of spell for threat in this new world of threat that rarely ever matters for real tanks.

    I can understand the need to reduce clutter, there were many spells that had little if any utility. But that was mainly back when we had Rank 1 spells and what not. RF wasnt that. It actually did have a use. Even for healers, I remember our pally healer throwing on RF to attract adds on the 3 drake Obsidian Dragonshire fight. Everything came to him, and the tank would pick it all up before it killed him.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rytoz/advanced

    If there's one thing I'm not, it's in control.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurvus View Post
    I'm not complaining about viability.
    I'm talking about many of the core concepts, abilities, etc.
    Consecration, Seals, Auras, Blessings (Wisdom, Might, Kings, etc) - watered down or removed.

    Granted, we got some cool new stuff as time went by, but some design decisions are so bad...
    The current Holy Wrath... no words.
    Long Arm of the Law was a cool concept worth improving, but let's scrap it entirely.
    So between...
    a) D3's Falling Sword (Turalyon's Might)
    or...
    b) D3's Steed Charge (Divine Steed)
    ,,,screw Draenei, let's go with Divine Steed, because instantly summoning a mount for 3 seconds is hype.
    If you let me type what I have in mind :-), I believe Turalyon's Might is better for ret though fluff-wise.
    Ret should get it, now.

    Why, fluff-wise? Why, really? A two-hander should never be permitted to fight on horseback that's why. Ret may possess a chivalric mind, but 2H are for swinging on large group of foes, mounted or on foot. A 2H cannot be used realistically on horseback.

    If Blizzard is so fond of class fantasy, Ret are not a mounted knight, due to their 2H. That's why I believe Turalyon's Might is the way to go for Ret.

    And as for class fantasy as well, ret should really get a massive front aoe because they strike with a 2H.

    Let's be real.

    As for Ret being punished because they got the Ashbringer. Lol, my personal opinion is that this sword is over the top for my ret, I did not asked for it. The ultimate sun weapon should be a 1H anyway, like Durandal, Excalibur, ...

  16. #296
    @Grogplus honestly mobility: we need a charge/leap ie: Turalyons Might

  17. #297
    The Lightbringer Nurvus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleax View Post
    If you let me type what I have in mind :-), I believe Turalyon's Might is better for ret though fluff-wise.
    Ret should get it, now.

    Why, fluff-wise? Why, really? A two-hander should never be permitted to fight on horseback that's why. Ret may possess a chivalric mind, but 2H are for swinging on large group of foes, mounted or on foot. A 2H cannot be used realistically on horseback.

    If Blizzard is so fond of class fantasy, Ret are not a mounted knight, due to their 2H. That's why I believe Turalyon's Might is the way to go for Ret.

    And as for class fantasy as well, ret should really get a massive front aoe because they strike with a 2H.

    Let's be real.

    As for Ret being punished because they got the Ashbringer. Lol, my personal opinion is that this sword is over the top for my ret, I did not asked for it. The ultimate sun weapon should be a 1H anyway, like Durandal, Excalibur, ...
    I was being sarcastic.
    Divine Steed disgusts me.

    I think a leap doesn't fit Paladins, but it is infinitely better than an instant horse...
    And with Turalyon, Tyrion and Arator establishing precedents, we should get it to replace Divine Steed right now.

    Personally I prefer a Light-based Falling Sword or Tyrael's Might that feels more like a teleport than a leap.
    Paladins should not be acrobatic in my opinion.
    Last edited by Nurvus; 2017-11-09 at 02:14 AM.
    Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
    Why did you necro a thread?

  18. #298
    Posting again because I love my idea....

    Holy Power redesigned akin to Shadow Priest's Insanity. Your paladin's special attacks generate Holy Power, which at 100 Holy Power, makes the ability Crusade available. Each point of Holy Power increases holy damage done by a percentage.

    Blade of Justice generates 10 HP.

    Crusader Strike generates 5 HP.

    Judgment remains unchanged, increases damage taken from TV/DS.

    Templar's Verdict/Divine Storm remains a hard hitting Holy attack on an 8 second cooldown. Blade of Wrath talent has a chance for BoJ to instantly reset the cooldown on Templar's Verdict/Divine Storm.

    Upon reaching 100 Holy Power and activating Crusade the paladin deals increased Holy damage until cancelled and allows the Paladin to cast Holy Wrath, a channeled ability that deals heavy Holy damage to a main target and chains to nearby targets, reducing in damage for each additional mob at the cost of 10 Holy Power per second.



    The suggested Playstyle is to build up Holy Power and deal increased damage with Crusade being used to burst and focus priority adds. In some situations, it would be more beneficial to maintain high amounts of Holy Power and save Crusade for important parts of the encounters. Once Crusade is active, the paladin will attempt to keep their Holy Power bar filled for as long as possible.

    TL;DR Holy Power/Crusade interact and serve as a mega burst at the cost of having to re-stack our more consistent damage. This would make Paladin's experts at focusing damage on priority adds and/or "nuke" phases.

  19. #299
    I'm sorry, but I think giving Ret an actual hardcasted ability would be what gets me to quit the spec.

    We're a melee class. I get wanting some instant cast ranged abilities again because we had Exorcism (Blade of Justice works close enough for me though), but an ability that needs to be channeled is awkward. At least in WW monks case, Fists of Fury has been there from the start.

    If we were going for more consistent damage, less burst while still retaining burst though, I would just say half the CD of Avenging Wrath while tuning the damage also (probably just half it also).

  20. #300
    What's the point of half-cd aw if you still can't catch a thing?

    "ohnozzz, Returdin unleashed his wings, wut du! Guess I'll just kite him as usual"

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