Vanilla demand nonsense

[DSRilk]

Read the edit. Tigole worked on Dungeons and Raids. They work hand in hand with the class designers. They pushed an agenda. They pushed their vision on hybrids and it reflected. Prior to their influence Paladins were solid DPS. After that they were quite essentially EQ Clerics.

Itemization can push the value of a class, sure. I'm not discussing what they did or whether it was for the purpose of screwing over hybrids. I'm talking about goals of the team lead. What those two did in the realm of dungeons and raids isn't relevant to that.

[Powerogue]

Wrong.

We want plain vanilla.

These threads that you refer to, are from modern-day crybabies that want to play vanilla in their own -easy- way.

Guess what. Even a single QoL feature, and it is not vanilla.

All veterans are asking for plain vanilla. Nothing more

It's not that simple. I played vanilla too. Many elements of it were objectively bad. The lag for example, which is why this project is going to take a while.

Think about Runescape Old School, the closest thing to this I know of. Players screeched and complained for a 2006-7 era server since that year, and after nearly a decade, finally got it...and were satisfied for about two seconds before demanding the game be updated with many of the modern luxuries that came after, like the RS version of the auction house, so we wouldn't sit around trying to sell our junk in a crowded, laggy market for 6 hours straight. (How do you think I got so fast at typing? And developed carpal tunnel syndrome!)

The same will likely happen here, mainly features like the group finder (not the Raid Finder/Dungeon Finder, but the slightly more manual one we use for mythics and the like), cross-realm to alleviate massively disproportionate horde or alliance servers, etc. And yes, down the line once everyone is bored with the vanilla raid tiers, new content.

If humans could be entertained by the exact same thing just as much with every repetition forever I'd still be playing Commander Keen 4: Secrets of the Oracle.

[Argarock]

Because it is the game THEY love, versus the game YOU love. Inventory management was part of the experience, stability issues were the source of epic breakdowns over Ventrillo, the inefficiency in the class design made you have to make choices for raid comp. These were all part of the game that drew people in. If the devs bend on that, why not make dungeons easier? Raids easier? Why not allow flying? It goes on and on, everyone knows if you give a group of people an inch they will demand a mile.

Inventory management was stupid, everyone HATED having to give the best bags warlocks cause ma-soul-shards.
yes, epic breakdowns, of Hate and rage. again, only frustration and pain.
Choices!? what choices!? There are no choice in, 7 out of 24 specs being completetely useless, and having warrior tanks..
No, what drew people in was the community, the huge world to explore and the challenge, all of the above is just annoying shit that people tolerated because the rest was really really good.
Dungeons easier?? They're going to have to beef up all the dungeons Significantly or all the content will be cleared in a week... (same goes for most raids obviously)
Flying? the vanilla world wasnt built for flying in mind, so they would have to use the Cataclysm world.. which is absurd. you resorting to hyperbole doesnt really help your arguement.

they can make classic servers with a vanilla-esque experience, with a server community, groundmounts only, world pvp, lvl 60 max level, grinding and so on,
without turning it into a buggy, glitchy, easy, unbalanced hell!

[Deleted]

They are going with classic because it gives them room to make changes as they see fit. Look at it like Coca Cola Classic, it gives the impression of the original but is different to the original.

As opposed to what? "WoW Vanilla"? They were very clear that this is "vanilla" and their goal is to replicate the original as authentically as possible. They're not trying to do WoW Remastered or anything like that.

[Peacemoon]

As opposed to what? "WoW Vanilla"? They were very clear that this is "vanilla" and their goal is to replicate the original as authentically as possible. They're not trying to do WoW Remastered or anything like that.

Unless WoW Remastered means updated graphics and models. For example, they could easily put the new player models in WoW Classic [Remastered]. It would not change the class/game/system mechanics in anyway but improve it visually. They could improve the water and environmental graphics too. Think of it like the remastered games on the PS4, The Last of Us, Skyrim, the Uncharted Collection etc. They could remaster the visuals without touching the gameplay.

- - - Updated - - -

Hybrids being less powerful in any specific role as a 'tax' for them being more versatile was most certainly stated throughout dev interviews for a very very long time (up till MoP?)

Yes it was a design decision for a long time in early WoW and should not be changed. If you want current WoW, with clearly defined class roles, then play current WoW. Early WoW hybrids could do more varied stuff, it was a completely different playstyle thaan today. The hybrid tax was controversial at the time, and I use the word controversial because there were people for and against it. Generally I was happy to sacrifice some performance in order to do more things. Especially as intellect only increased your max mana, not the amount you healed or damage you dealt.

[Coffeexbean]

Obviously! And they will make more money by pleasing the vets that want pure vanilla!



There maaaany people that quote me, saying that I am correct




I said non-profit! Some that make profit will obviously continue to operate. I hope not for long though!




I am with you mate




Then why do you play vanilla lol? I too have been a vanilla vet (maybe I have played on private too ), and I really want a 100% vanilla experience from Blizzard!




Yeah, I am talking about gameplay! I don't like mass loot, LFG, 15 mins HS etc




Gameplay-wise, I really want vanilla feeling. But I assume that most people would love it to be bug-free





Yep I am with you. We were big noobs then, and that made the game even more difficult. But aspects like aoe loot, small CDs on HS, LFG will ruin the experience for sure in my opinion. So, yeah fix bugs, but do not touch the gameplay!

aoe loot is not gonna ruin anything. small cds on HS and LFG will however have a gameplay change

-less real time travel with both as LFG will render going back to the city useless and will make people kick each other more easily than trying to work with your weak links. This is one of the reasons pugging sucks and is such a single player souless experience compared to pugging before.

[clevin]

Me too. I reached Lieutenant Commander rank twice and still have Original Naxx items such as Frozen runes which are extremely valuable today. There are tons of simple QoL improvements that would improve the game drastically but the crazies here think it's some extremely lubricated slope that will lead to LFR and DK's and DH's pumping them in AV.

Nah, we just want you to not be hypocrites. For years, it was "Give us classic servers!!! Classic was awesome!!! They have the code! Just launch it!!!!!" And now it's "No, not THAT Classic!!!! That sucked!!! I want this change and that change and...."

Look, I get fixing obvious, serious bugs and security stuff. Past that? You should all deal with Vanilla. No QoL bullshit. You made us all listen to your crap for years - you wanted Classic, you're getting it and what 'It' should be is the game that you kept telling us was so fucking awesome.

[Magnagarde]

If someone wants classic WoW with features that the current-content WoW has, then it is no longer classic WoW. How hard is that to get. You can't glorify something and then be all exhilarated about seeing tens upon tens of changes to the original game, saying it would be better. It would be better indeed, but it wouldn't be classic WoW.

This isn't hating on those that want to experience vanilla; I played it myself, enjoyed it and moved on. However, people glorified vanilla beyond what it objectively should be glorified for and now want more than vanilla.


What does it mean when people point this out? It isn't hate; it means to point out that people who have cried out for the vanilla experience have all along wanted an experience that isn't vanilla. If you want vanilla with current refinements added, then you do not want vanilla; what you want is cross-patch experience. It should be called exactly this - crosspatch WoW, not vanilla WoW. Crosspatch WoW is WoW features from vanilla and all the other various expansions merged into one, with the environment being vanilla-based, while other features are based off the improvements and content brought by other expansions.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

How about they request feedback from everyone who signed the petition then? That way they won't get tainted data from haters who want to ruin our fun of from people who don't know any better.

Sure. Just tainted by the multiple sides of people who want legacy servers but each side wants different things out of it. Good luck with that. And people thought the anti-legacy server crowd was the problem?

[Tiwack]

Honestly, it's akin to an abusive relationship.
You play, you get upset, you take a break, and you go back, even though you know nothing will change.

That's most video-gaming in a nutshell.

[Drpizka]

How does making un-viable classes viable ruin your experience?
How does improving the inventory system so that mounts dont take up inventory space ruin your experience?
How does fixing stability issues in the engine ruin your experience?

But then it will not be vanilla. It will be something else. All these years we have been asking for just a vanilla server. We didn't ask to fix classes.
All that you describe are not vanilla and the game is obviously not for you

Actually... you did not. You wrote "all private servers". At no point profit or non-profit was even mentioned.

No, I mentioned it many times that I said about non-profit, and that the other servers will apparently look to continue offering their services.

It's not that simple. I played vanilla too. Many elements of it were objectively bad. The lag for example, which is why this project is going to take a while.

Think about Runescape Old School, the closest thing to this I know of. Players screeched and complained for a 2006-7 era server since that year, and after nearly a decade, finally got it...and were satisfied for about two seconds before demanding the game be updated with many of the modern luxuries that came after, like the RS version of the auction house, so we wouldn't sit around trying to sell our junk in a crowded, laggy market for 6 hours straight. (How do you think I got so fast at typing? And developed carpal tunnel syndrome!)

The same will likely happen here, mainly features like the group finder (not the Raid Finder/Dungeon Finder, but the slightly more manual one we use for mythics and the like), cross-realm to alleviate massively disproportionate horde or alliance servers, etc. And yes, down the line once everyone is bored with the vanilla raid tiers, new content.

If humans could be entertained by the exact same thing just as much with every repetition forever I'd still be playing Commander Keen 4: Secrets of the Oracle.

What I got from the "Blizzard quality classic server" is that they will offer a vanilla realm with the well known Blizzard server stability. Obviously the speed of modern networks is greater than in 2004, so I will not expect huge lag.

Also, not everyone will play for the raids! For example, my goal will be to just equip my rogue with the D1 set. And I would love to do it by spamming /1 for mates, or with a few guildmates!

aoe loot is not gonna ruin anything. small cds on HS and LFG will however have a gameplay change

-less real time travel with both as LFG will render going back to the city useless and will make people kick each other more easily than trying to work with your weak links. This is one of the reasons pugging sucks and is such a single player souless experience compared to pugging before.

I believe that aoe loot somehow affects the game. Imagine that you forget to loot a corpse, and that loot is actually a rare or an epic world drop! This might cost you a few hundreds of gold! So you need to always be aware of your environment, of what you have killed. With aoe, its all kewl.

[sef24]

They didn't advertise it as Vanilla+ it's being marketed as an authentic experience. The second you start changing shit because people are spoiled by QoL from Live you bastardize the game and shit on the very point of making the pre-BC realm. There's absolutely no point in doing any of this if people are just going to demand a Remastered version. You have Live please stick with that or play this Vanilla realm but don't start demanding shit that wasn't part of the experience.

Go play your private servers then. You're sound so entitled that you believe everything is for you. It isn't. If they make changes to it, I'm happy, if they don't, I'm still happy. I just prefer it one way. Don't act like a child that gets 5 scoops of icecream, but angry because the 6th scoop you wanted went to the other child. Not fair!

edit: What's next, you gonna complain that launch day is smooth? "I remember on launch day, it was hell! I couldn't even play, classic servers aren't classic anymore!"

[Kyanion]

Finally what I would say to people is that specs being 'not viable' is a gross exaggeration that is repeated again and again until people believe it to be true. Classic WoW has no mythic or heroic modes, it is not hardcore game. If you can level up to 60 (and I did as a Disc priest once), and you can do dungeons then what are you not viable for? I was the guild leader of a raiding guild during Classic, and we raided most of AQ 40 and we were quite casual. We never forced people to play a certain spec. We did have a retribution Paladin. Most of the classes that could heal did purely because they wanted to, but certainly not all of them. There are only a few things people complain about that have some truth in them, for example you did generally have to rely on Warriors to tank, but if you were a little creative you could work around that in some instances as well.

And your story while great was not the typical experience many people playing offspecs encountered. I remember quite well the hate on multiple servers for my spec, balance druid and shadow priests and dps warriors and the list goes on and on. Some of them were flat out refused entry to guilds no matter HOW good their gear/playing ability was.

[Argarock]

But then it will not be vanilla. It will be something else. All these years we have been asking for just a vanilla server. We didn't ask to fix classes.
All that you describe are not vanilla and the game is obviously not for you

Wait, apparently I've gotten this all wrong.
You actually want the broken mess that vanilla was? with blisters, boils, broken bones and all?


that's.. ok I guess?
There's no way you're getting it thou. Blizzard aint stupid, if they did that exactly what they've said will happen, would happen. the classic servers would be popular for 3 months as people checked them out and then they would turn into ghost-towns as people got bored / found out that they liked the QoL stuff from the normal servers after all.

Personally I'd like to play something that works..

They're not making vanilla, they're making Classic.

They will be making QoL changes.

[jackofwind]

As I said earlier, I seriously doubt they use them, not because it is wrong or right, but because they won't burn the development time to do so. It's not as simple as just downloading the code and * poof * new models.

I have the new models patched into my private server WoW folder and they run perfectly fine.

It's actually not hard to do, the pserver community has already sorted it all out.

[Deleted]

I have the new models patched into my private server WoW folder and they run perfectly fine.

It's actually not hard to do, the pserver community has already sorted it all out.

Didnt know about this at all. Do they work well? Could try em out for fun

[jackofwind]

Didnt know about this at all. Do they work well? Could try em out for fun

Yeah they work great. There's patches for character models only and for world and NPC models and spell effects as well. It looks and feels fantastic.

[Jastall]

Perhaps, but then Blizz will have all rights to go after and close those servers. At the moment, all private servers claim "hey, we just offer players a choice to play the game that you created but are not hosting right now". When classic is out, and it is 100% vanilla, then all these servers will not have this justification.

You're more optimistic than me if you truly believe all the private servers will close once Classic launches. Some people will always prefer free over paid.

Besides, you won't have the 100% pure vanilla experience (assuming we can even agree what that is; progression from patch 1.0? Patch 1.10? 1.12?). Battle.net integration will be a thing, as well as addons that add stuff the community takes for granted like group finder and achieves. So you bet some people will use this and assorted changes as a justification to go back to their free shit.

[Drpizka]

Wait, apparently I've gotten this all wrong.
You actually want the broken mess that vanilla was? with blisters, boils, broken bones and all?


that's.. ok I guess?
There's no way you're getting it thou. Blizzard aint stupid, if they did that exactly what they've said will happen, would happen. the classic servers would be popular for 3 months as people checked them out and then they would turn into ghost-towns as people got bored / found out that they liked the QoL stuff from the normal servers after all.

Personally I'd like to play something that works..

They're not making vanilla, they're making Classic.

They will be making QoL changes.

I don't know mate, call me romantic!

I prefer the broken classes of vanilla though, than the completely imbalanced classes (on pvp) on WoD and Legion!

A few visual enhancements would be ok, but re-designing the game... then why bother implementing it at all? We have canon for that.

- - - Updated - - -

You're more optimistic than me if you truly believe all the private servers will close once Classic launches. Some people will always prefer free over paid.

Besides, you won't have the 100% pure vanilla experience (assuming we can even agree what that is; progression from patch 1.0? Patch 1.10? 1.12?). Battle.net integration will be a thing, as well as addons that add stuff the community takes for granted like group finder and achieves. So you bet some people will use this and assorted changes as a justification to go back to their free shit.

No,no,no! I didn't say that all we close! Although a private server announced that it will close once classic is out, and it is pure vanilla.

I am sure though that private servers that are after profit, will not close by themselves for sure.

Also, I sense that a few of the nostalrius team will help in designing the game. They have the knowledge and the experience. If they work on their source code, the only addons that will work will only be the vanilla addons (cosmos, questie etc).

I once again will like to remind people that classic will not be canon, BfA will be. If you want group finder and achievs, then this game unfortunately is not for you.

[ovine]

Use a better editor please. it's hard to read a ramble when it's all pushed together without paragraphs or punctuation.

Don't dare open something called a book then.