Classic Crowd: Do you want convenience & account wide stuff?

[Mercadi]

--snip--

... But 4 million players who are more in the middle who may or may not be a little irritated at what they got, but they are happy that they can play in the spirit of what they played before... yeah thats a win for Blizzard and the vanilla community overall.

I concur, though am afraid that the puritans may spoil the fun of the middle of the road players like me. It takes a vocal minority to instill a toxic atmosphere in the game.

[Rumred]

• Updated player models Indifferent.
• Account wide mounts. Nope
• Achievements in general Eh could be ok but i don't care either way not going to effect how it plays
• Account wide achievements Nope
• A Mount Tab so the actual mount doesn't take up your bag space Indifferent
• Higher stack sizes for materials (vanilla it was only 20 max for materials) No
• Larger bags (back in vanilla 18 slot bags were the highest you could get) No
• Guild banks Yes most large guilds already had assigned people to have alts to store "guild" mats and pots to trade out before raids. So really this would be a change i am ok with
• Personal Materials bank No
• Mass auto loot (kill 3 mobs, loot only 1 mob and you get the dropped loot from all 3) Indifferent
• LFD If you mean a way to find people who are wanting to run the same thing than i am ok with it. No auto group/port you to the dungeon nonsense tho.
• Group builder tool Same as above.

[Wiedzemir]

Having mounts not take up bag space doesn't affect the gameplay at all. Not having to loot each and every individual mob doesn't affect gameplay other than making it quicker to loot things and continue on playing the game. [B] Having achievements in the game, doesn't change game play at all either, it actually encourag

Let's do another test: Define "gameplay". Because we've been down this road already. Those inconvenient RPG elements were chipped away one by one and some nonsensical systems such as "Achievements" (if you can even call it achievements as 90% of them celebrate mediocrity) were added. And what was left? The current version of WoW! And achievements hunting led to drama and excessive toxicity as it is.
And ye, I say that if they start adding those QoL "improvements", I won't play it as there is literally no point. I hope you realize that many people who quit WoW, quit for a reason. As I stopped playing because I feel like I was playing Diablo re-skinned into WoW. Everything is unified, nothing matters, legendary items party all around. Everyone is the same and look the same because everyone is using some sort of a mog, usually a set.

[RemasteredClassic]

I really don't think they're trying to attract new players to Classic, tbh. It's a nostalgia playground for the vets, a side project to appease the crowds that have been asking for it (and annoying them) year after year again. I think people have been making too much out of this whole thing. Majority won't be sticking around for too long regardless of the number of qol features. Dedicated few will stay and play, those are the ones it's meant for. At least that's my humble view.

This is exactly why Blizzard SHOULD NOT release it as it was because these "vets" will not be there forever....new blood wants new shit.

[McNeil]

A big nope to everything listed. The whole point of vanilla servers is that it replicates the game as it was so people get to see the whole experience, which also means no QoL features. People who want all the conveniences should stick with retail instead.

[Wiedzemir]

This is exactly why Blizzard SHOULD NOT release it as it was because these "vets" will not be there forever....new blood wants new shit.

"New blood" has Legion. The newest shit ever!

[Shrouded]

The only changes to the vanilla experience I wouldn't mind would be UI-related, but I absolutely would not want anything that affects gameplay.

[RemasteredClassic]

"New blood" has Legion. The newest shit ever!

Now you're just being a troll. Are you telling me Blizzard should ignore everyone and PLEASE YOU AND YOUR LIKES??! Who do you think you are?

[Jaylock]

Let's do another test: Define "gameplay". Because we've been down this road already. Those inconvenient RPG elements were chipped away one by one and some nonsensical systems such as "Achievements" (if you can even call it achievements as 90% of them celebrate mediocrity) were added. And what was left? The current version of WoW! And achievements hunting led to drama and excessive toxicity as it is.
And ye, I say that if they start adding those QoL "improvements", I won't play it as there is literally no point. I hope you realize that many people who quit WoW, quit for a reason. As I stopped playing because I feel like I was playing Diablo re-skinned into WoW. Everything is unified, nothing matters, legendary items party all around. Everyone is the same and look the same because everyone is using some sort of a mog, usually a set.

Its an "RPG element" to have 5 mounts taking up space in your bags?

Its an "RPG element" to have 50 stacks of rune cloth only stacking to 20 in each stack?

Its an "RPG element" to not have a guild bank? On this one I would think you would actually WANT something like that because it enhances the "RPG elements" in the game

Its an "RPG element" to not have achievements?

- - - Updated - - -

The only changes to the vanilla experience I wouldn't mind would be UI-related, but I absolutely would not want anything that affects gameplay.

Does having materials stack to 200 or more instead of 20 affect gameplay?

[RemasteredClassic]

Its an "RPG element" to have 5 mounts taking up space in your bags?

Its an "RPG element" to have 50 stacks of rune cloth only stacking to 20 in each stack?

Its an "RPG element" to not have a guild bank? On this one I would think you would actually WANT something like that because it enhances the "RPG elements" in the game

Its an "RPG element" to not have achievements?

- - - Updated - - -



Does having materials stack to 200 or more instead of 20 affect gameplay?

I wish I had Jaylock's patience. In my opinion, these people aren't worthy of being consulted with or even worthy of being part of a conversation. World peace hasn't been possible exactly because of the likes of these impossible-as-partners-in-a-discussion kind of people. I hope to see the day their dreams shatter. Once a close-minded villager savage, always a close minded villager savage. Go join the army and PVP/PVE IRL, with your insanity, you might enjoy it IRL.

[BananaHandsB]

I think a lot of the people who don't want the QoL/bug fixes/etc didn't actually play during vanilla. Vanilla was great, but there were also many things that I just couldn't fathom why they didn't exist in the game back then. Many of the QoL changes I actually just consider "fixes" to the game, like the mount/toy collection. I remember wanting things like that so bad back then but had to wait till later iterations of the game to get them. I would love a classic experience with many of the QoL I wished I had back then. Would allow me to relive the classic experience minus the few annoyances that made it much less fun at times.

Account wide things I consider an extra system that doesn't necessarily need to exist in classic wow, but improvements like mount/toy/pet collections I just consider a huge improvement on an objectively terrible initial design.

[Jaylock]

I think a lot of the people who don't want the QoL/bug fixes/etc didn't actually play during vanilla. Vanilla was great, but there were also many things that I just couldn't fathom why they didn't exist in the game back then. Many of the QoL changes I actually just consider "fixes" to the game, like the mount/toy collection. I remember wanting things like that so bad back then but had to wait till later iterations of the game to get them. I would love a classic experience with many of the QoL I wished I had back then. Would allow me to relive the classic experience minus the few annoyances that made it much less fun at times.

Thats essentially what I would like to see as well.

I absolutely played during Vanilla, and did I enjoy having such limited bag space? No. Did I enjoy doing a SW Stockades run to get a bunch of wool cloth only to have to manually click each and every individual mob to loot it? No. But I did it because thats the only way you could loot back then. Did I enjoy having mini pets taking up bag space? No. The only reason I wasn't a collector of cool vanity stuff during Vanilla was because it would have taken up too much bag space and it would be an annoyance when I was trying to raid and collect gear and other materials for my professions.

When people are talking about QoL features, they aren't talking about completely changing what Vanilla was. Vanilla at its core was about grinds, raiding, attunements, long often difficult quest chains, old world before the cataclysm, all the old quests back, a dangerous world with elite mobs in certain areas (especially near dungeon entrances), no LFD, restore the sense of community etc. QoL features are just that, QUALITY OF LIFE. Adding achievements to the game was a fun addition that added RPG elements to the game. Having that in the game doesn't destroy the gameplay one bit.

[Powerogue]

Updated player models - I think the updated models are better for both players and various NPCs like the yetis they've done, but retro is retro, keep the old.
Account wide mounts. - naw.
Achievements in general - Did we even have those?
Account wide achievements - likewise.
A Mount Tab so the actual mount doesn't take up your bag space - yeah sure, without the account wide part.
Higher stack sizes for materials (vanilla it was only 20 max for materials) - personal material bank would be enough.
Larger bags (back in vanilla 18 slot bags were the highest you could get) - how about just the personal material bank?
Guild banks - sure. I'm pretty sure people did it anyway and just had a guild bank alt before this was implemented.
Personal Materials bank - this without some of the other suggestions as a compromise. Reduces the need for bank alts but space is still somewhat tight.
Mass auto loot (kill 3 mobs, loot only 1 mob and you get the dropped loot from all 3) - absolutely. no question.
LFD - no.
Group builder tool - the one we use for mythics and such? Yes. It's more manual and gives an opportunity to check out the player instead of just auto-inviting. This is a good compromise.
the list could literally go on and on and on for hundreds of lines, but you get the point


addition: something I had forgotten about until recently, the AH used to be crap. They've added a lot of QOL features to it like that auction "loading bar" as it automatically divvies up 50 stacks of 25 highmountain salmon at 100g per stack. All that wasn't in vanilla, and it sucked.

[RemasteredClassic]

Even hardcore classic fans playing on non blizzard servers couldn't keep playing the same old stuff once they pretty much got everything. They started a whole project to get graphics updated and made videos on how to do it:

youtube.com/watch?v=VfDRVj57DwM

Project page for updated models on classic:

model-changing.net/blogs/blog/65-release-improved-models-for-112/

[God Save The King]

That's because it's not.

Vanilla WoW was an experience on it's own. Change even minor aspects like available bag space or bag space saving conveniences, and it will NOT be the same experience.

For example, in terms of the mount tab: You'd have at least 2 more free bag spaces (More if we talk AQ mounts later on) purely from the mount tab being introduced. You'd have several bag spaces since materials would stack higher. Guild and personal banks could now store all your stuff instead of having to think about what stuff you want vs. how much room you have.

All of these things were a part of the experience. It's not the same experience if you add these things.

Best not fix any bugs, change the hardware, etc. All that was "part of the experience". Need to make sure servers have the same population as original servers as well. The issue with this stance is some changes are not possible to avoid, as I highlighted above. Some change is inevitable, and of course some will be felt more than others. But if you take the stance "if you change anything, then it's not vanilla", then Blizzard cannot release vanilla, because it is impossible without some level of change.

[Shrouded]

I think a lot of the people who don't want the QoL/bug fixes/etc didn't actually play during vanilla. Vanilla was great, but there were also many things that I just couldn't fathom why they didn't exist in the game back then. Many of the QoL changes I actually just consider "fixes" to the game, like the mount/toy collection. I remember wanting things like that so bad back then but had to wait till later iterations of the game to get them. I would love a classic experience with many of the QoL I wished I had back then. Would allow me to relive the classic experience minus the few annoyances that made it much less fun at times.

Account wide things I consider an extra system that doesn't necessarily need to exist in classic wow, but improvements like mount/toy/pet collections I just consider a huge improvement on an objectively terrible initial design.

I played vanilla, and I don't disagree with you - but I still wouldn't want them "fixed". Using the mount/toy examples, bag space issues were an annoyance, but they also made bag upgrades much more exciting. Getting that Onyxia hide backpack or that mooncloth bag was a big deal, especially if you played a hunter or warlock. I feel it was all a part of the vanilla experience, and I think if you tug at one thread the whole thing may start to unravel.

[DarkAmbient]

Everything should be as it was before TBC was released. Blizzard should not listen to trolls who want to change anything.

[Soluna]

I don't think any of these are needed. Even speccs being broken and all that shit is fine. Bag space being limited? Fine. Mounts taking bag space? Fine. Slow spawns? Mob tagging? No dual spec? Everything is literally fine. And you know why? I've started playing in cata, which was completely different than vanilla. I've recently gave a private server a spin, like 3 days ago and I am already level 24, cleared shadowfang keep, ragefire chasm and wailing caverns. All 3 were awesome experiences, I got lost tons of times searching for quests by reading the quest journal, I've ran on foot thrice from crossroads to thunderbluff because I kept forgetting to unlock the flight path. I have to gather soul shards which, consume one bag space each, making it really difficult to carry plenty and to get loot at the same time. Spells eat lots of my gold, considering I also have pets that I need to teach spells to as warlock.

But for some reason, despite the tons of its inconveniences, I just keep looking forward to playing more, and more, and more. It feels like there is some sort of progression. I go to a zone, do quests, gear up, gather dungeon quests for a new dungeon, then get a group and tackle it together for the next 1-2 hours completely blind. CCing, using your abilities creatively, off tanking, hybrid healing make the run different and unpredictable at times. Then you complete the dungeon, farm it 2-3 times with your buds to get a bit of good gear, then proceed to level again, destroying quests of your level because you got some good gear, making you feel like you actually worked hard for something and got rewarded. The same process repeats again and again, up until now that I finished Shadowfang keep. It feels so satisfying that I entered with 84 intellect, and now I have 108 intellect, which is around 25% more than before. My stamina has also increased, etc.

Due to how difficult the game gets at times, you get a really hard time trying to finish some things, giving you some crazy experiences. Yesterday, I visited wailing caverns for the first time, we entered after fighting lots of enemies, we had tons of fun in the dungeon, and in the end we defeated the murloc boss, after that, we decided to go outside and kill a goblin because one of us didn't get to complete that quest. We fought our way out of the dungeon, and when we finally saw the light of day, it felt so satisfying, we were in the cavern for 2-2.5 hours, and it really felt rewarding to go out and see the sun and the oasis.

These feelings can't be replicated with 15 minute instant mass pull dungeons really. Neither can questing offer the same experience. I don't quite know why, but antoran wastes doesn't feel as fun to navigate through with all the mobs, as it is to do a vanilla quest in an area filled to the brim with harpies, where one wrong move could totally kill you. So yeah, please don't change anything! If someone like me, who is a cata boi can appreciate it, then so can everyone else!

(Keep in mind that I am more hyped for BfA than classic)

[God Save The King]

Then change NECESSARY things. Change the server hardware - You can't not. Change the operating system - You can't not.

I don't care if old bugs exist - Yes, they were part of the experience. Have charge send you through the earth every now and again, why not? Is it really that big a deal that you'd quit the game over it? Then Vanilla isn't for you. Period.

Don't change the game "just cause." If something NEEDS to change, change it, but don't change the game "for convenience sake."

Who defines necessary? Surely blizzard can find or hire companies to make legacy hardware to run their original servers. There are companies who do that for large corporations on old, legacy hardware.

Again, this is the issue with that mentality.

[Rothion]

If you are a fan of the "vanilla" experience, and since Blizzard caved and are now producing a classic experience, do you want a lot of the convenience features that the current game has now?

For example,

• Updated player models
• Account wide mounts.
• Achievements in general
• Account wide achievements
• A Mount Tab so the actual mount doesn't take up your bag space
• Higher stack sizes for materials (vanilla it was only 20 max for materials)
• Larger bags (back in vanilla 18 slot bags were the highest you could get)
• Guild banks
• Personal Materials bank
• Mass auto loot (kill 3 mobs, loot only 1 mob and you get the dropped loot from all 3)
• LFD
• Group builder tool
• the list could literally go on and on and on for hundreds of lines, but you get the point

Do you just want the leveling experience to take as long as it did, and the difficulty of the dungeons, world mobs, raid bosses, to be like it was, but you want all the convenience features that have been added to the game?

I would assume you wouldn't want LFD or the Group Builder tool, because you would want to preserve the sense of community that the game had back then. (which those inevitably destroyed along with cross server groups).

For me to even want to go back to a "classic" wow experience, the game would have to have some of the convenience features of today, but the spirit of the game should still be the difficulty, grindy, long quest chain, huge wonderful world I was used to back then. I would still want achievements, because I think fun things popping up on my screen when I accomplish something is cool, I would want the mount tab where you learn mounts rather than them taking up bag space. I would also want all of the graphical updates they have done to the game to remain, including updated player and NPC models.

Im cool with Mount Tab, Auto loot, Achievement support and optional new models. The key thing people need to understand is that though this is meant to be representative of the "Vanilla Experience" Blizzard can ultimately use this as a platform for innovation and improvement over the current state of the game (especially when it comes to difficulty). I was 11 when I started playing in Vanilla and now im 24 and studying game design (playing WoW on and off in the years between). From that perspective its easier to see why and how Blizzard would make small improvements to the original game (especially given how flawed the original game was). The possibilities may bring fear to some, but people need to realize that even in an old platform there is room for innovation, which is what game designers do.