Vanilla demand nonsense

[Drpizka]

my 2cents:
there's a reason they are calling it WoW: Classic and not WoW: Vanilla.

Yeah, but for some people, their favourite flavour is "vanilla"

Not my words!

[Kyanion]

Do you know what it's like to see somebody you don't entirely agree with all the time post rationally in this sea of madness? Most of these people on both sides make me cringe when I read their shit.

That is the thing, I've been Anti-Legacy from when this whole mess first started after the Nost shut down. I've said many times I understand WHY people want Vanilla and I personally didn't want to see it because I feared a risk to retail WoW if Vanilla came out and bombed. Now that Blizz has said it is a separate team and they don't care if it has tens of thousands or tens of people I've made my peace with it. My biggest complaints with people in those threads was that they tried to spout opinions as facts and acted as if they speak for a silent majority of people.

Do I think Legacy will be really popular? Not after the initial rush, no. But I sure as hell understand and have no problem with people wanting to devote a large amount of time playing in Vanilla and being happy with it. Maybe it could surprise us all and have that massive playerbase for a huge period of time, you never really know what can happen.

Some people now accuse me of trying to sabotage their effort to have Legacy and that is fine, if they want to believe that. I am only giving my opinions as a player of Vanilla since day 1 launch and watching the whole PS debacle unfold. I am not one of the people advocating for LFR, massive changes to systems but if I was to come back and try to play this I WOULD want some minor QoL changes and to be totally honest, some class balancing issues. It was not fun being told as a moonkin to switch to healing if I wanted to raid. I was thankful I finally found a guild that let me play what I wanted and I rewarded that trust with giving my best effort every raid night.

[Kithelle]

But all the polls show a massive majority leaning towards original untouched vanilla. The threads are made by a vocal few, and in many cases it's the same group of people posting those threads as new ones pop up with different wording. A small circle jerk making the issue seem larger than it is, made clear by the polls.

Wait and see I guess, it's entirely possible the vocal few can get Blizzard to listen...wouldn't be the first time a developer listens to the vocal few.

[Kyanion]

Of course! But it's wasn't them that told blizzard "hey, make a vanilla server and we will pay for it". People that played 100% vanilla-like servers did it.

I mean it wasn't just Nost people voting on that petition and stuff you know? It got the attention of some small media outlets, Youtube E-Celebs, streamers and the like. Not everyone saying 'make Vanilla and we'll play/pay for it' was ALSO saying 'change nothing'. You can just tell from the massive amount of threads/debate around former Vanilla players, PS players and even people that played neither they want some changes. Yes there are people that want ZERO changes and I get it. Just don't try and act like your way is the only way and 100% correct.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Here we go again..

Mate, the community that played vanilla on private servers specifically asked for this broken version. This is how we loved the game.

We don't want to see class tuning every week. We are fine with the idea of a few classes being imbalanced. We are not crybabies.

It's not all about tuning. Why is that hard to understand it?

We don't ask for a perfectly shine and balanced game.

"A few classes being imbalanced"

...did you even do PvE raiding or PvP in Vanilla?
You had ONE tank option, Warriors.
You had ONE healer option, Priests.

Dps options: Rogue, Mage, Warlock, Hunter.
PvP options: Rogue, Arms Warrior or Frost Mage (potentially special snowflake PoM+Pyro Fire Mage)


The only things that were good about Vanilla was that realm communities were important and that you got involved in your character.
If you behaved like an asshole on a realm you would NOT get group invites for 5mans or raids and not get in a guild. If your repetition on a realm got bad enough you had to pay for realm change/name change or make a new character...
When you finally got to 60 (which wasn't a matter of shit being hard but things were slow) you then spent WEEKS to obtain blue gear and epic gear wouldn't even be on your mind for a long time, I didn't even get my first mount (the slower one) until I was mid 50s.


Vanilla:
Good- realm communities and sense of achievement played a big role.
Bad- classes were largely unfinished, unbalanced and in general extremely bland.

[Kyanion]

Wait and see I guess, it's entirely possible the vocal few can get Blizzard to listen...wouldn't be the first time a developer listens to the vocal few.

That is quite true. I am really curious on what the finished product will be. Will it be a mostly untouched version that ONLY has fatal bug fixes/Security issues fixed or will it be a version with a little QoL tossed in as well.

[natpick]

Wrong.

We want plain vanilla.

These threads that you refer to, are from modern-day crybabies that want to play vanilla in their own -easy- way.

Guess what. Even a single QoL feature, and it is not vanilla.

All veterans are asking for plain vanilla. Nothing more


spot on and i hope this is what we get,no alterations at all,just as it was for better or worse.

[Logwyn]

Wrong.

We want plain vanilla.

These threads that you refer to, are from modern-day crybabies that want to play vanilla in their own -easy- way.

Guess what. Even a single QoL feature, and it is not vanilla.

All veterans are asking for plain vanilla. Nothing more

And Blizzard hasn't said that these are "vanilla" servers. Just "classic" servers. Not the same!

[Coffeexbean]

If the polls say that EVERY veteran wants your definition of vanilla, they are absolutely wrong. I just gave you one example: me. I can see other examples in this very thread. I get that you felt attacked on another thread, but I have never said you shouldn't get the vanilla server you desire. I even explicitly said "have fun" with it. I don't know why you're getting your panties in a bunch over my request that you stop saying all of us.

The only comment I ever made that might be construed as being against your "pure vanilla" idea is that I don't believe there is one pure definition of vanilla, which can be seen in this thread alone. You know who wants "pure vanilla"? People who said they want it. Some veterans. Some non-veterans. And you know who DOESN'T want "pure vanilla"? Some veterans and some non-veterans.

What I think would be a far more interesting topic is for people who are interested in a "vanilla" server to lay out what they define as vanilla and what they would define as non-vanilla. Patches? Quest updates? Talent tree tweaks to make certain specs playable? Which version of the pre-BC talents?

If they release any pre-BC version as it stood back in the day, this vet will likely check it out, but is unlikely to stay. If they release a pre-BC version with slightly tweaked talent trees with the old tree architecture, but with updated talents to make all specs viable, this vet would check it out and would be far more likely to stick with it longer. That said, I don't have enough of an interest to push for either if a lot more people want one over the other.

VETERAN RIGHT HERE 12 YEARS AND I WANT A REMASTERED/REMAKE OF VANILLA OMG. Its a great game but its also old ass shit. Its fun but its not exciting. They need to make a remake but keep the grind and social systems in place... just update the ui , new models and graphics.. people are being so boring weve played vanilla wow already and others on private servers for years. I have to run that shit with sweetfx to make it look decent

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

That is quite true. I am really curious on what the finished product will be. Will it be a mostly untouched version that ONLY has fatal bug fixes/Security issues fixed or will it be a version with a little QoL tossed in as well.

What would be QoL changes?
Making classes and specs functional doesn't count as QoL changes in my book. Honestly if you never played Vanilla wow before the TBC patch I urge you to find a private server that offers that and try playing something like feral druid (dps or tank) or paladin (ret or protection)...

All vanilla had that was properly good was realm communities and sense of achievement/accomplishment when you FINALLY obtained your goal, I still remember when I got my 40% mount at around lvl 50. I still remember the first character I saw with Sulfuras (a dwarf warrior with orange hair and beard)

Classes, specs and game balance in general was REALLY bad in vanilla. Anyone thinking otherwise is lying.

[Drpizka]

"A few classes being imbalanced"

...did you even do PvE raiding or PvP in Vanilla?
You had ONE tank option, Warriors.
You had ONE healer option, Priests.

Dps options: Rogue, Mage, Warlock, Hunter.
PvP options: Rogue, Arms Warrior or Frost Mage (potentially special snowflake PoM+Pyro Fire Mage)


The only things that were good about Vanilla was that realm communities were important and that you got involved in your character.
If you behaved like an asshole on a realm you would NOT get group invites for 5mans or raids and not get in a guild. If your repetition on a realm got bad enough you had to pay for realm change/name change or make a new character...
When you finally got to 60 (which wasn't a matter of shit being hard but things were slow) you then spent WEEKS to obtain blue gear and epic gear wouldn't even be on your mind for a long time, I didn't even get my first mount (the slower one) until I was mid 50s.


Vanilla:
Good- realm communities and sense of achievement played a big role.
Bad- classes were largely unfinished, unbalanced and in general extremely bland.

I did and I had no problem with that. I actually liked it. Or do you think that classes are balanced nowadays? Homogenisation is totally different from "balance"

And Blizzard hasn't said that these are "vanilla" servers. Just "classic" servers. Not the same!

Yep, but favourite flavour is vanilla!

[Deianeira]

1, 2) a server I know for sure, has publicly claimed that they will close when classic is out, and it is 100% vanilla.

3) I am not referring to the game, but on the younger playerbase that it is used in easy and fast gaming. The purpose of implementing vanilla, except from nostalgia, is that we miss the difficulty and the challenges.

While i agree that people generally want a more faster get to endgame today. Lets be real Vanilla was never hard, it was timeconsuming and sure there was a few things that was challenging but please dont try to claim that it was hard. Also i dont get the "We just want to relive it as it was" trope. I dont Think that is never gonna happen for anyone, because WE all of us are sooooooo much better gamers and we know sooo much more both about WoW and gaming in general. That dont mean that it cant be a good thing we will have to see. Im gonna try it out and see how it feels compared to back when i started in Vanilla. But i dont have any illusions that it will bring me the same EPIC experience. But im happy Blizz is doing this and i sure want them to keep it strictly Vanilla and no "extras" so as to create as Close as possible the Original thing.

[mich4el]

Use a better editor please. it's hard to read a ramble when it's all pushed together without paragraphs or punctuation.

It was very clear and easy to read and English is not my native language you are probably just slow in the head

[Kyanion]

Wrong.

We want plain vanilla.

These threads that you refer to, are from modern-day crybabies that want to play vanilla in their own -easy- way.

Guess what. Even a single QoL feature, and it is not vanilla.

All veterans are asking for plain vanilla. Nothing more


spot on and i hope this is what we get,no alterations at all,just as it was for better or worse.

I highlighted the points in your post you are having trouble with. Not a single person in this thread on any side speaks for 'the majority', 'we', 'most', or any of that. You speak for yourself.

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What would be QoL changes?
Making classes and specs functional doesn't count as QoL changes in my book. Honestly if you never played Vanilla wow before the TBC patch I urge you to find a private server that offers that and try playing something like feral druid (dps or tank) or paladin (ret or protection)...

All vanilla had that was properly good was realm communities and sense of achievement/accomplishment when you FINALLY obtained your goal, I still remember when I got my 40% mount at around lvl 50. I still remember the first character I saw with Sulfuras (a dwarf warrior with orange hair and beard)

Classes, specs and game balance in general was REALLY bad in vanilla. Anyone thinking otherwise is lying.

I view QoL changes and class balancing as 2 separate issues without doubt. And the problem is trying to figure out how much or how little QoL is harming things. I don't believe Aoe-Loot is a gamebreaker and I do think some consideration should be made for the color-blind and handicapped players for example.

Oh trust me as a Vanilla moonkin I know first hand just how bad the classes/specs/game balance was. I know how brokenly strong my rogue was and how painfully behind my moonkin was despite playing as well as I could.

[Drpizka]

While i agree that people generally want a more faster get to endgame today. Lets be real Vanilla was never hard, it was timeconsuming and sure there was a few things that was challenging but please dont try to claim that it was hard. Also i dont get the "We just want to relive it as it was" trope. I dont Think that is never gonna happen for anyone, because WE all of us are sooooooo much better gamers and we know sooo much more both about WoW and gaming in general. That dont mean that it cant be a good thing we will have to see. Im gonna try it out and see how it feels compared to back when i started in Vanilla. But i dont have any illusions that it will bring me the same EPIC experience. But im happy Blizz is doing this and i sure want them to keep it strictly Vanilla and no "extras" so as to create as Close as possible the Original thing.

Indeed, we were all new to the game back then and this played a role in seeming more difficult.

A pure vanilla realm will be a victory toward modern gaming, where all games are extremely fast-paced, require little effort, and reward players for doing nothing.

Some of us are sick of this style and wish to play a game that feels rewarding. We don't care if it broken, this is how we loved it.

People opposed us and fought us, and now that we have been promised our game back, they wish to harass our experience.

[Warning]

Veteran here and it's ridiculous to see how entitled some people are. They think this thing actually belongs to them in some way because they played on a private classic server or asked for it. Your opinion on what classic should be is worth exactly as much as the next guy who wants to play it.

My personal opinion is leave almost everything as is, but tweak some of the more tedious stuff like stupid short buff durations, soulshard grinds and insane respect costs making farming hell for healers and tanks. I also wouldn't mind if they brought things like prot pallies to say 90% of the tanking ability of a prot warrior but not on the same level, dead specs like that could be nudged slightly in that way without upsetting the existing order and it wouldn't bother me one bit. No achievements, no lfg/r, no mass summons, no transmog. But again, that's just one opinion and worth exactly as much as the next.

[Drpizka]

I highlighted the points in your post you are having trouble with. Not a single person in this thread on any side speaks for 'the majority', 'we', 'most', or any of that. You speak for yourself.

- - - Updated - - -



I view QoL changes and class balancing as 2 separate issues without doubt. And the problem is trying to figure out how much or how little QoL is harming things. I don't believe Aoe-Loot is a gamebreaker and I do think some consideration should be made for the color-blind and handicapped players for example.

Oh trust me as a Vanilla moonkin I know first hand just how bad the classes/specs/game balance was. I know how brokenly strong my rogue was and how painfully behind my moonkin was despite playing as well as I could.

Haha you keep saying this to all? Do you now see the truth?

[Kyanion]

Indeed, we were all new to the game back then and this played a role in seeming more difficult.

A pure vanilla realm will be a victory toward modern gaming, where all games are extremely fast-paced, require little effort, and reward players for doing nothing.

Some of us are sick of this style and wish to play a game that feels rewarding. We don't care if it broken, this is how we loved it.

People opposed us and fought us, and now that we have been promised our game back, they wish to harass our experience.

Now you are making into something far more than it is...there are still games with far far more grinding than Vanilla WoW EVER had. Stop trying to act like this is some major movement, jesus.

- - - Updated - - -

Veteran here and it's ridiculous to see how entitled some people are. They think this thing actually belongs to them in some way because they played on a private classic server or asked for it. Your opinion on what classic should be is worth exactly as much as the next guy who wants to play it.

This is the biggest truth in these threads.

- - - Updated - - -

Haha you keep saying this to all? Do you now see the truth?

The truth that a few people seem to think they speak for the majority?

[Thimagryn]

Those people who demand tweaks to Classic are in clear minority. I even created a poll about that http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2333546-Who-are-You

You polled under 300 people total, that's an extremely small size to draw any data from.

[clevin]

Let's assume they get exactly that, classic with nothing but fixing bugs and security things...okay fine. The problem is they can't even agree on what version of Vanilla that happened over the 2 or so years it was out. Do they start at day 1's patch? Why that one? Why have the game on 1.12? That won't give people that played early on the proper Vanilla experience. I remember 5 min pally buffs, druids before they got the 1.8 patch and many other glaring issues that got fixed as even Vanilla went along. I mean hell the honor system that people loved to grind and then later exploit didn't even come in til like 1.4.

Sure. What I'd do were I making that decision is to have the game be based on, say, 1.12 and have the various content changes just release over time. So UBRS would be a raid, Strat and Scholo too, then they'd change.. ZG would get released however many months after live, Naxx later, etc. In other words, simulate the progression without actually deploying all of the actual patches.