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  1. #21
    jesus christ if you dont want, dont play it is easy

  2. #22
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Maybe if it wasn't just nostalgia, people wouldn't say it's nostalgia.

    Content gaps are boring enough. No new content, ever, is an ill prospect.

    "Oh man I can't wait to kill those ashenvale furbolgs for the 20th time!"

    "Gee I wonder if Rend is going to be any different this runthrough!"

    "Boy I may be decked out in Naxx 40 gear, but damn if running it for the 200th time isn't just the greatest thing ever!"
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  3. #23
    Well, of course it was nostalgia.

    Back then I wouldn't mind running on a silly 60% speed mount for like 30 minutes to get to Desolace for who knows what because I didn't know any better. But what made the time pass was I had friends back then that did the same silly thing with me.

    The game play I don't think I would like too much, but it was the server's community that people are nostalgic about. I can still name some of the big raiding guilds on my server that was doing MC/BWL/AQ40 and it was a sense of prestige to be in those guilds and doing that content.

    Now it's hit a button, wait, hit a few more buttons, say "thanks" and leave group. No one talks cause you see other toons in the world, but you don't know when it is next that you'll see them again. There's no sense of community or togetherness. No central hub like there was in vanilla IF.

    I miss when it was 2008 and I was playing WoW tanking on my fury warrior because "plate = tank" cause I didn't know any better and had friends that were on the same server all the time to do stupid things like that with me. But now with all that knowledge and having seen what's on the other side of the fence? Yea, nope.

    I will log on the server JUST to experience the oldness of it all, but that's about it.

    Unless they bring back old old AV, the ones that would rage on for days at a time, then I would be enticed by these vanilla servers a lot more.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Maybe if it wasn't just nostalgia, people wouldn't say it's nostalgia.

    Content gaps are boring enough. No new content, ever, is an ill prospect.

    "Oh man I can't wait to kill those ashenvale furbolgs for the 20th time!"

    "Gee I wonder if Rend is going to be any different this runthrough!"

    "Boy I may be decked out in Naxx 40 gear, but damn if running it for the 200th time isn't just the greatest thing ever!"
    I don't think you seem realize that fun is subjective. Why the fuck do people still play Ocarina of Time? I mean the new Zelda game is out and that game is 20 years old.
    Stains on the carpet and stains on the memory
    Songs about happiness murmured in dreams
    When we both of us knew how the end always is...

  5. #25
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    I don't think you seem realize that fun is subjective. Why the fuck do people still play Ocarina of Time? I mean the new Zelda game is out and that game is 20 years old.
    How many people still play ocarina of time?


    I mean there are people that find collecting stamps fun, too.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #26
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    I don't see why some vanilla players are always out for a fight with someone that disagrees with em.
    Are these 20 posts really necessary?

    If you want to play wow vanilla then go play wow vanilla, if you don't then don't.

    I don't understand why these useless posts aren't closed/locked right away.

  7. #27
    I just hope they don't give WoW Classic the Diablo 3 treatment and say fuck your nostalgia

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    How many people still play ocarina of time?


    I mean there are people that find collecting stamps fun, too.
    Again, fun is subjective. Some people find LFR fun. I find it to be like a virtual zoo of Warcraft players. Telling people they don't like something even if you can't imagine why they would makes you come off like an ass.
    Stains on the carpet and stains on the memory
    Songs about happiness murmured in dreams
    When we both of us knew how the end always is...

  9. #29
    Personally I think it is just nostalgia. But like others have said that's not a bad thing. It's very likely I will play on them too, and yes, out of nostalgia. I have a very weird memory of levelling my second character in vanilla (only got it to 40). It was a nelf druid and I remember it taking AGES to kill anything. I do not recall why, it may have been bad game design, but mostly I suspect it was just my lack of any skills or knowledge of what I was doing but I remember being in Stonetalon Mountains and killing mobs by hitting them with my staff. I find the concept of going back to that and seeing just how bad I was playing or if there was a reason I was doing that (maybe I was balance and just had almost zero mana - I cant remember). That idea of going back and seeing how the knowledge of playing the game for the last 11+ years affects what I do in the original game is really interesting to me and I look forward to it. It IS nostalgia though and I admit that and have no problems with it.

    However, while I expect to play on Classic, if it STAYS where it started..... and never gets past patch 1.12.2..... I can't see how it would possibly hold my interest once I had got everything done that I wanted to in that. I am not a high end raider, but I find it hard to believe that those that are will be wanting to have NAXX40 on farm for 2 years and still be happy with no new content. People bitch enough now when there is a content drought - how much more so when there is NO new content expected... period.

    What then? Do they make BC servers again next? Keep Vanilla and make BC? Go through the whole shebang making the next one every couple years - but leaving the ones before it. In 12+ years we have the choice of playing on Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK, CATA, MOP, WAD, Legion, BFA, and whatever is next? I'm sure that option and flexibility would be loved by many but I cant imagine it being in anyway financially viable so I think that the Classic servers will either stay Vanilla, Migrate to BC, or disappear within the next 5 years. Will be interesting to see. If they stay classic vanilla then if they are still going in 5 years time (after launch - it may well be 2-3 years before we actually get them anyway) then I doubt it will be the same people.

    Incidentally there is ONE modernisation that they should have in classic wow whatever else they do (and I vote for nothing else added). That one thing is multifactor authentication. Of course if the client is linked into the battle net app then thats taken care of there - but the client itself also needs to have it built in.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathpath View Post
    a large chain of vanilla private servers that were massively successful,
    How many of them are still in operation? Closed businesses are not usually counted as successful.

  11. #31
    It is just nostalgia though.
    Oh and the "private servers" were free for the most part. People like free stuff.

  12. #32
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    Again, fun is subjective. Some people find LFR fun. I find it to be like a virtual zoo of Warcraft players. Telling people they don't like something even if you can't imagine why they would makes you come off like an ass.
    Moreso that people like the idea of things.


    Will people like running Naxx for the 200th time? Maybe some will. Will consistent, appreciable groups of 40? Don't know.



    I mean people like the idea of playing instruments or learning to paint or whatever. They think it'd be fun and think of all the cool music they could play or art they could create, but once the details become involved a lot fewer people find it palatable. Just like people think of all the fun times they'll have exploring or raiding, despite the fact that they've explored it all and raided it so many times that it becomes trivial.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by zomgzerg View Post
    except WoW was made for adults back then and is made for kids now. So going back is the only way unless you pedo or something
    What an enlightened view on things, it must be so interesting to be you Back to the real world - I happen to be partial to some sweets every now and then. Kids sweets like liquorice laces, haribo jelly sweets etc. They are made for kids, so by your values I am a pedo now. What a strange concept...

  14. #34
    The Lightbringer Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Moreso that people like the idea of things.


    Will people like running Naxx for the 200th time? Maybe some will. Will consistent, appreciable groups of 40? Don't know.



    I mean people like the idea of playing instruments or learning to paint or whatever. They think it'd be fun and think of all the cool music they could play or art they could create, but once the details become involved a lot fewer people find it palatable. Just like people think of all the fun times they'll have exploring or raiding, despite the fact that they've explored it all and raided it so many times that it becomes trivial.
    You're just hellbent that nobody can find something fun that you don't it seems. I'll be content getting to cap and getting decent enough gear to PVP with from BWL and AQ40. If I clear Naxx it will be long after it goes live just to say that I did it because I only got 2 wings down when the game was live.
    Stains on the carpet and stains on the memory
    Songs about happiness murmured in dreams
    When we both of us knew how the end always is...

  15. #35
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    You're just hellbent that nobody can find something fun that you don't it seems. I'll be content getting to cap and getting decent enough gear to PVP with from BWL and AQ40. If I clear Naxx it will be long after it goes live just to say that I did it because I only got 2 wings down when the game was live.
    I'm sure they'll have guides written up to progress a character through naxx in a few weeks in the outset of two months.

    This isn't the internet of 2004 with people largely in the dark about raid mechanics or gear drops or mystical tales of redeeming ashbringer.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  16. #36
    Scarab Lord Leih's Avatar
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    Why is this argument still even happening?

    Whether it's just nostalgia or Vanilla was legitimately the better game or somewhere in between it just doesn't matter any more.

    WoW Classic has been announced. It's happening. There's no need to argue for or against Vanilla servers any more. Now we can just wait and find out one way or another after it comes out.
    Looking for laid-back casual raiding on EU?
    Our community is looking for more players: Take a look and hit me up for info!

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I'm sure they'll have guides written up to progress a character through naxx in a few weeks in the outset of two months.

    This isn't the internet of 2004 with people largely in the dark about raid mechanics or gear drops or mystical tales of redeeming ashbringer.
    its going to take over a year to reach naxx simply from gear drops and lockouts alone. even if your magically lucky and the loot fairy gives your raid every piece of loot you need it'll still take over a year imo.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Why does this one argument annoy you so much?

    And even if it is "just" nostalgia, that doesn't make it bad or unworthy. People collect / drive cars from the 50s for nostalgic reasons, collect records or pictures or items from the past for those reasons. Nostalgia is not bad, grow up ^^

    Also, you are getting your servers, who gives a fuck for what reasons you play on them. Have fun, don't care about others....
    Well, the reason it annoys me, and I'm obviously not the OP, is because it's just so blatantly ignorant.

    The people who utter this phrase have no freakin' clue about game design. And I mean that very literally, and unfortunately it also applied to swathes of the WoW dev team, to the point where several Blizzard veterans gave up and left the company in frustration, and formed things like Bonfire Studios. All they see is the small systems and how they operate and how good they are individually, but they have no understanding of the gameplay that emerges due to rules on a larger scale.

    They'll often come with arguments like "The classes are so much smoother now and you never just press 1 button" but fail to see the flipside of many of the large-scale strategic decisions in vanilla, the resource management aspect, and even some of the moment to moment decisions.

    They'll say raid bosses are easy because they have no mechanics while ignoring what threat can do to you if you #yolo it. Also, they don't understand the big fuss about CC, or having backups.

    They'll say things like "You don't have a group finder and there aren't enough quests at low level" because they haven't realised that this is happening because the game wants to ram you into group content and social bonds and relationships at the earliest possible convenience, and that it therefore expects you to get XP from places like Scarlet Monestary and Blackrock Mountain.

    They'll say things like "having to sit down and eat/drink/get pots etc. is boring" without realising that it keeps the game paced to the point where you can look around at your environment and see all the details, open your quest log and understand how the descriptions match your environment, build mental maps of the landscape, etc. These are things that aren't needed in modern WoW because you have quest markers, but that removes the need to understand the world, reducing immersion.

    They'll say things like "Desolate is too far away and has no quests" without realizing that there is a faction war between two reputation factions there, something the modern game doesn't have at all, ever, and it being far away means it has few people, and it having few people is what gives it the vibe that it has, and ALL OF THAT IS 100% INTENDED and is actually brilliant.

    They'll say "but raids are too hard and there is no M+" without realising that adding those features means that monsters no longer have an assigned power value. Enemies thus no longer feel viscerally dangerous - they are dangerous because you asked the game to make them dangerous, which is actually incredibly weird if you think about it for 2 seconds.

    There are so many things like this it isn't even funny. Literally the only publically visible person left at Blizzard who seems to understand this is Jeff Kaplan. I hope and pray that they consult him A LOT on this stuff to try to understand why WoW vanilla is so appealing to so many people. Goodness me, they could even learn something. We had millions of people playing that thing on private servers just last year, and the only reason it stopped growing is because Blizzard forced it shut. It's clearly not nostalgia. It's clearly a great game in a genre you don't appreciate. Cool, whatever dude, just leave them alone. Ok?

    This is just like the Skyrim vs. Morrowind debate. It's not nostalgia. Morrowind is slower, has deeper quests, a more immersive world, and a lot more dialogue. Skyrim is much more viscerally satisfying in every way, from combat to voiced NPC's, and so on, and looks incredible. They're very different, but it's very hard to argue that Skyrim is better than Morrowind in every way, or indeed vice versa.

    I'm not, by the way, saying that WoW is bad now. I'm very specifically and carefully saying that, if you think current WoW is an improvement on vanilla in every way, you don't know shit about game design. It's a different game with different design principles. It's still very competent, but it just isn't anything like vanilla WoW, which was also very competently put together.
    Last edited by Ishayu; 2017-11-10 at 09:11 AM.

  19. #39
    The Lightbringer Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I'm sure they'll have guides written up to progress a character through naxx in a few weeks in the outset of two months.

    This isn't the internet of 2004 with people largely in the dark about raid mechanics or gear drops or mystical tales of redeeming ashbringer.
    The issue is more to do with gearing than the actual difficulty of the dungeons themselves. Yes, Vanilla WoW raids are trivial compared to Heroic Raiding these day because they don't have nearly as many mechanics. Getting enough gear to meet the dps requirements, resist requirements, etc. that the Vanilla raids take is not something you're going to do instantly. I don't have this fantasy that raiding in Vanilla was harder than it is now. Getting to that point was. Leveling and gearing up to raids is the charm. The journey was just as important as the destination.
    Stains on the carpet and stains on the memory
    Songs about happiness murmured in dreams
    When we both of us knew how the end always is...

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by op3l View Post

    Unless they bring back old old AV, the ones that would rage on for days at a time, then I would be enticed by these vanilla servers a lot more.
    TBH, while I am not really a PVP person - I LOVED old-style AV. I don't think I played in any of the "lasts for days" battles but I do know I have played in ones that lasted for hours and farmed scraps to summon help etc. I remember logging off for hours, logging back in and joining AV and being back in the SAME match - awesomeness.

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