I'm starting to think that "current" vanilla players won't be joining us

[Kyriani]

No, I'm making sense, you just don't understand the subject matter. Toolchains change over time -- and just because they're binary compatible doesn't mean they're source compatible. You often can't build old software on a new toolchain without porting it, but you can (usually) run software built with an old toolchain on a system built against a newer version.

If you've never built an operating system from source, or at least done some work on a major coding project, you'll just have to take my word for it that they'd have to make changes to even create a new executable from the 1.12.1 codebase. It'd be easier and safer to just use the modern client, and work backwards to a Classic experience from there.

This guy knows what he's talking about. Whenever these Classic servers appear, they are going to be using as much of the modern day WoW client as Blizzard can get away with. There are good reasons for this outside of what Yuyn mentioned. Blizzard isn't just going to toss someone's repack online and call it "Classic". They need the entire under the hood workings down pat so they can provide a good experience on modern hardware while still maintaining the feel of the classic game. Don't expect a 100% faithful recreation of Vanilla... 90% maybe. That's not to say Blizzard won't try to hit 100%, but there are certain things that will have to change.

That Bnet integration will be part of Classic is a given. It's going to happen because all current Blizzard games use it and Classic will be no exception. The Addon API will likely be the same as the current modern client. Any changes Blizzard makes to the BFA client API will likely occur to Classic as well. It creates a uniformity that makes Classic easy to maintain and squash exploits that may crop up. Old vanilla addons will almost certainly be incompatible with Classic but some of the current addons players use now may well work with it since the API is very likely to be the same as the live client. Any old addons that don't have a modern day version will likely need to be remade or updated at the very least.

The Classic client will almost certainly be able to handle the higher resolutions of modern hardware. Blizzard might very well use the higher res textures, lighting and character models of the modern client simply because a) they can be made optional, b) they don't change anything about the classic gameplay experience and c) they look good and lend themselves well to promotional material. Make no mistake, when this goes live, Blizzard is going to milk it for all its worth publicity wise.

While I know no more than anyone else here, I've got a very strong feeling we're going to get a "Vanilla: Remastered!" rather than a 100% identical to the original 1.X days. I'm also fairly confident Blizzard is not going to go through the whole 1.X patch cycle in stages. I expect it will be some iteration of the 1.12 patch with maybe some elements of the older patches (like say pre nerf AV for example) mixed in to tug those rose colored heartstrings. I would not be surprised if Blizzard staggers the content however. Classic can go live as a 1.12 iteration without AQ and Naxx being available right away. But anyone who thinks they are going to have an experience identical or even close to "day one launch" with its crappy talent trees and other issues and then months/later Blizz will roll out all the overhauls, is just dreaming.

Realistically, Blizz is going to make this a "one and done" project that they can use to lure back the old guard and maybe yoke in a few new players to boot. There isn't going to be any ongoing development outside of maintaining the project, fixing any bugs, and perhaps the staggered unlocking of content over time. Eventually it will all be unlocked however and that will be that and everyone who comes in after will have to settle for it as is, just as those who came in at the end of vanilla had to. Only they won't have a TBC to look forward to unless Classic is a huge enough hit that Blizzard decides to make Classic servers for each xpac era (a highly unlikely scenario).

[Aleksej89]

If making w0w classic was easy then blizz would not need to hire an entire additional developer team for it.

W0W class is gonna be a b*tch to recreate and blizz is DEFINITELY using all the modern tools that they can.

The end user (players) are probably gonna get a vanilla like experience but that is just skin deep - everything under that skin will most probably be the same tech as they use for Retail.

[Segus1992]

Why pay for something you don't need? /shrug

Well, I'm not dirt poor, so I'd pay for the stability alone. Reliability and reputable developers is extra.

[Echocho]

If making w0w classic was easy then blizz would not need to hire an entire additional developer team for it.

That's very true, and they're not looking for backend/server developers either, they're looking for frontend/client developers.

This leads me to believe that the server is up and running on modern hardware and they're mostly happy with it and now they need to recreate the client using the Legion one as an engine of sorts.

[Lochton]

I don't think that paying 15 dollars a month or whatever it may be will sit well with them for a product that isn't an exact replica of what they're playing now.
The addon system for example is going to have to be replaced since the classic one is easily exploitable.
From the looks of the job postings it looks like they're going to recreate classic wow using the modern client kinda like an engine.

It is going to be empty when people realize the lack of 'QoL' that want as well as the issues of role balancing. Ah, classic.

[kamuimac]

That's very true, and they're not looking for backend/server developers either, they're looking for frontend/client developers.

This leads me to believe that the server is up and running on modern hardware and they're mostly happy with it and now they need to recreate the client using the Legion one as an engine of sorts.

ofc it is - blizzard is a company that will try to make as much $ as they can from it

people have no clue how world works - devs have next to nothing to say in this - decisions how it will look like will be taken on much higher level then anyone hired for the job - devs are just trained moneys who will do whatever they are told by higherups.

the only thing which will decide what version we will get will be whatever will bring blizzard most money - dont even think different for a second.

they have to milk the f... of of $$$$$ with it to justify 2-3 years developement and release process - and creating server without QoL wont make even the $$$ they invested in back

im fully expecting ton of QoL including like char boosts , buyable tokens/gold etc etc.

people who think different are delusional

[Army Dreamer]

Well, I'm not dirt poor, so I'd pay for the stability alone. Reliability and reputable developers is extra.

Ah, you just showing off how rich your dad is. Got it.

[RapBreon]

90% of people that play on Private Servers do so because it is Free. I doubt many Private Server players will actually go to Blizzards Servers if it costs them money.

But, all the people I know that have played or do play on a private server can 100% afford to play current WoW (I mean some of them are straight up rich lmao). They just don't like it, or feel the current expac has stopped offering something worthwhile after playing it for X time. I personally played on one, not because it was free, but because I was feeling nostalgic and was looking for something current WoW does not offer. I didn't spend long due to fears of a lack of permanency (Nost got shutdown so I guess paranoia paid off). You can claim sample bias, but at least I have some context to go with my unconvincing argument :P

The one time money was relevant was a private server then I was 12. I wanted to try the game and had no money. This convinced me to actually obtain a real copy of the game (two, because my first account was...dodgey and reclaimed :P). I mean I wouldn't be surprised if private servers used to be a net positive income for Blizzard back in the Classic/TBC/WOTLK days. Regardless, WoW's playerbase is aging, which usually means a job...and money. So if it was even close to 90% I'd be super surprised.

It is going to be empty when people realize the lack of 'QoL' that want as well as the issues of role balancing. Ah, classic.

But I enjoyed going back to Nost and how silly it was. A charm from a bygone era. If they want to change stuff, I'm also ok with that too, devil is in the details. I have deal breakers, it really depends on what they're trying to recapture.

[Segus1992]

Ah, you just showing off how rich your dad is. Got it.

Uh, I'm a student and haven't had my life paid for me for some 5-6 years. If you're young enough to still live at home you never played Vanilla in the first place, why would you want to?

[cparle87]

2017 and you actually care 15 $/month?

If people can use the excuse that WoD wasn't worth 15/month then the same argument can be used for classic. If someone is so fed up with the game that they don't think two quarters, enough to play a single pinball game in a restaraunt foyer, is a good exchange for it, they won't play.

[RelaZ]

I wrote an addon that does the pve rotation for warriors flawlessly from just spamming a single button using rage break points and whatnot. I need to compile it though since it's spread out over a couple of addons at the moment but I'd be happy to do so if you'd like.
You'll have to either have a 60 1.12 warrior to try it out our understand the code
The vanilla API is stupidly open, you can do all kinds of weird shit. They can't keep it.

That's not an exploit. That's how the vanilla API worked. You were allowed to do that.

That's how for example Healbot & Decursive worked and they're most certainly not considered exploits in vanilla. They used logic to select an action and target just with the use of a single HW event (button click). No input from the player was needed other than that 1 action on the same keybind each time.

I'm assuming they're not going to change this given how much purists want "NO CHANGES".

You didn't "exploit" anything. There are millions of "1-button-rotation" scripts/addons/macros for vanilla available on the web, it was intentional.

[Cracked]

That's not an exploit. That's how the vanilla API worked. You were allowed to do that.

That's how for example Healbot & Decursive worked and they're most certainly not considered exploits in vanilla. They used logic to select an action and target just with the use of a single HW event (button click). No input from the player was needed other than that 1 action on the same keybind each time.

I'm assuming they're not going to change this given how much purists want "NO CHANGES".

You didn't "exploit" anything. There are millions of "1-button-rotation" scripts/addons/macros for vanilla available on the web, it was intentional.

It was obviously an oversight since so many of the functions became protected in 2.0, so yeah, even though you could do it for entirety of vanilla, blizzard only found out it became a problem after some time, just like AVR was only removed in ICC, even though it worked for the entirety of wotlk.

Do you really want everyone to play near optimally by slamming 1 button over and over again?

[Deleted]

No, I'm making sense, you just don't understand the subject matter. Toolchains change over time -- and just because they're binary compatible doesn't mean they're source compatible. You often can't build old software on a new toolchain without porting it, but you can (usually) run software built with an old toolchain on a system built against a newer version.

If you've never built an operating system from source, or at least done some work on a major coding project, you'll just have to take my word for it that they'd have to make changes to even create a new executable from the 1.12.1 codebase. It'd be easier and safer to just use the modern client, and work backwards to a Classic experience from there.

I will have to disagree with this. If you have full source code and can provide all dependencies in proper versions, and I honestly doubt blizzard uses many if any outside dependencies that they don't have source for, it should build on modern tool chain just fine. The only issue I could see is os specific parts, run time libs etc. But MS in general is very good at keeping backwards compatibility so it should be fine there.

They could just build old client, old server. Set it all up, sell access to it and be done with it.

Though I do agree that they will most likely not do this. I am certain they will use current code for server side and client, modify/configure it with classic in mind - maybe using old assets, probably not. Disable features not present in classic, import and mod classic db then toy with mob/raid/event scripts if they want to change it. If they elect to use current assets then classic integration into current client is not out of question, but I expect it to be separate one.

[RelaZ]

It was obviously an oversight since so many of the functions became protected in 2.0, so yeah, even though you could do it for entirety of vanilla, blizzard only found out it became a problem after some time, just like AVR was only removed in ICC, even though it worked for the entirety of wotlk.

Do you really want everyone to play near optimally by slamming 1 button over and over again?

It was most definitely not an oversight given that everyone and their mother used Decursive/Healbot which were only made possible due to the way the API was built. Blizzard knew about it and could've changed it at any point.

Just because they changed their mind later doesnt mean it wasnt intentional at the time. Blizzard changed a lot of things that were intentional at the time.

They had all the way from 1.0 - 1.12 to change it if it wasn't intentional, because they had knowledge about it - but they didn't, because it was part of the vanilla experience.

[RadiationWoW]

I played on those unofficial servers and I'd seriously be glad to pay to just know my character is safe from deleting.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

1st of all blizzard already confirmed they won't use any resources from the current game. It will be plain vanilla.

2nd, $15 maybe was a big deal 13 years ago when this game came out, but nowadays a pizza is $30. $15 is nothing...

- - - Updated - - -

If making w0w classic was easy then blizz would not need to hire an entire additional developer team for it.

W0W class is gonna be a b*tch to recreate and blizz is DEFINITELY using all the modern tools that they can.

The end user (players) are probably gonna get a vanilla like experience but that is just skin deep - everything under that skin will most probably be the same tech as they use for Retail.

If it was hard, there wouldn't be hundreds of 3rd party servers running for free. Only an idiot thinks it's hard for them to run vanilla servers.

[Echocho]

$15 maybe was a big deal 13 years ago when this game came out, but nowadays a pizza is $30.

OT: 30 bucks for pizza!? Holy crap that's a lot. In my country a pizza cost like 50% of a WoW sub.

[Arewn]

It actually is.

Wages have been more or less stagnant (at least in NA) while prices have risen. So if anything, money is even more precious now.

[Deleted]

This is going to be a big test of the Privater
Server community.

With proper, official Classic servers coming from Blizzard the only reason now to use a private server would be to avoid the sub cost.

I dont for 1 minute believe that after Classic servers launch there will be less private servers available because I still think the attraction of not having to pay will keep a lot of platers there.

[Independent voter]

I predict a lot of the cheapskates won't leave private WoW servers because they like playing for free but the people who donate to private WoW servers, I think unless Blizz screws up classic a lot, the donating types will leave private WoW servers for classic.

The money in the private WoW server business will dry up.