Idea for Ogres as an Allied Race

[Calfredd]

More believable than Horde Nightborne...

Not really since Nightborne are actually happening right?

[Wyrt]

Isn't the idea behind Allied Races is they're things we already have, but slightly different versions? That's why they're able to create so many of them all at once, most of the hard work is already done. I don't think ogre would really fit into that, they'd have to be a new race rather than allied race.

[Shakou]

Isn't the idea behind Allied Races is they're things we already have, but slightly different versions? That's why they're able to create so many of them all at once, most of the hard work is already done. I don't think ogre would really fit into that, they'd have to be a new race rather than allied race.

No the idea is simply a way for Blizzard to more consistently add new playable races. That the ones we're getting at launch are similar to ones we have already is pretty simple to figure out if you understand the amount of actual work it would take to add completely new playable races (with new models and so on) as they would have to make every piece of armor and weaponry in the game work for that race.

It would be like Cataclysm all over again if each of these races were a completely new thing with brand new models and all that. Plenty of time down the road to expand on the feature, and they've said they're going to do just that.

Why anyone would think they're adding a feature to the game so they can *get this* add more playable races to the game, but that they'll somehow add playable races "a different way" is not hard to figure out, it's called cognitive dissonance.

Goes without saying that playable Ogres would be more work than Draenei but with yellow eyes and other cosmetic features, doesn't somehow mean that the next playable races they add in the game are going to be like forest trolls and some shit.

[Teerack]

I wish this would happen.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Ogers as a race seem fine all of this though just seems stupid. If they are added as playable they should be like goblins or pandas give them there own mounts and some building in another city but that’s it rewriting there whole lore for some convoluted reason to add them seems stupid.

[Kayb]

I like all of these ideas except for one. Rogues. Just don't see it. If it were me I'd ditch the rogues and add Shaman and Monk. There's plenty of established shamanism already within the Ogres, and after the past few years of Pandaren running around I'm sure they would have likely passed teachings on to the Ogres as well. Studying the ways of the monk could also be another way for them to 'find themselves'/'clarity of mind' etc.

[Wyrt]

No the idea is simply a way for Blizzard to more consistently add new playable races. That the ones we're getting at launch are similar to ones we have already is pretty simple to figure out if you understand the amount of actual work it would take to add completely new playable races (with new models and so on) as they would have to make every piece of armor and weaponry in the game work for that race.

It would be like Cataclysm all over again if each of these races were a completely new thing with brand new models and all that. Plenty of time down the road to expand on the feature, and they've said they're going to do just that.

Why anyone would think they're adding a feature to the game so they can *get this* add more playable races to the game, but that they'll somehow add playable races "a different way" is not hard to figure out, it's called cognitive dissonance.

Goes without saying that playable Ogres would be more work than Draenei but with yellow eyes and other cosmetic features, doesn't somehow mean that the next playable races they add in the game are going to be like forest trolls and some shit.

Why would they called them Allied Races rather than just Races like in the past? Seems like they're deliberately making a distinction between these new races and the new races we got in the past.

[Chemical Ellis]

I like the ideas here, but I'd really prefer ogres to get the full race treatment - starting experience, mounts, the whole bit. Unfortunately, I fear that 'Allied Races' may mean Blizz never does another 'full race' again, and all future races may end up getting dropped unceremoniously in Org/Stormwind at level 20.

There's quite a bit of invented backstory here. But, I think the game might be seeding the potential for more advanced ogres further down the line with 7.3.5 content. If you look at the map for the Seething Shore (the upcoming Silithus battleground), you'll see several landmarks referring to ogres - it appears part of the Wound will erupt straight down the middle of an ogre settlement. That means, regardless of who ends up 'controlling' the site, ogres will have more direct access than anyone to these Azerite outcroppings.

And we all know what happened the last time ogres had access to a cache of crystals of arcane potential.

I'm wondering how likely it is that they'd destructively alter a zone to give ogres a new home base. If they were an allied race, they probably wouldn't get a city at all, and if a full race, they'd probably get a new zone entirely. There are existing possibilities that make sense - Ogrezonia (a joke, but still canon as far as we know) or Crestfall (a former Alliance base, captured by the Horde and then abandoned after the 2nd War). But the great thing about ogres is that - they're everywhere. Every continent and planet we've ever set foot on, we've either found ogres or they've followed soon after. They have their own boats, they've traveled the world, they can survive in any climate. You could plop down a random ogre city on some new pile of land anywhere, and in any expansion, without feeling forced, because ogres are so ubiquitous.

[Shakou]

Why would they called them Allied Races rather than just Races like in the past? Seems like they're deliberately making a distinction between these new races and the new races we got in the past.

This was explained very simply at Blizzcon, the system is called "allied races" because you the player through quests will be personally introducing these races to your faction. Maybe try actually watching the videos and stuff instead of commenting on things you just were too lazy to watch the fkn video for?

[Andromedes]

Ogres have such a cool lore and legacy in warcraft universe.. Your ideas are perfect, and dire maul would be perfect home for them.

But i would rather want to play as fabricated cool looking race with zero charm and legacy, sorry. /s

[Deleted]

I would love to get Ogres as a Allied Race.

But the problem is that Ogres have totally different body type from other alrdy playable races.
What means it will not rly an option for Allied races what we seen sofar because they are just reskins from alrdy playable races but would be a new race.

[Jokubas]

I'd love to see them added as an Allied race. I don't see Blizzard redoing Dire Maul for it. Considering it is mainly an elven ruin of which Ogres hold a part. It doesn't add much to the Ogre experience for me anyway. And it's an active dungeon site.

I didn't see the Dire Maul thing before, but once I thought about it, it became the perfect hook. I've been wanting ogres since before the game came out, so I never needed anything super special for them, but I really did like how they expanded them for Warlords of Draenor.

I really, really like the design for Goria (which was also the primary inspiration for the logo I made): https://wow.gamepedia.com/media/wow....474111a4152a49

Dire Maul would be a perfect place to recreate this, because Dire Maul is already extremely close to it. I never really understood why this secret highborne archive had a coliseum, but it works perfectly for the ogres. Also, ogres only hold a part of it now, but those are also Gordunni ogres. The Gordunni actually left the city in the first Traveler novel. But since the Stonemaul ogres, who are on the Horde, had an encampment nearby, and were the ones to do the Horde version of the quests that dealt with Cho'gall's presence there in Cataclysm, I thought there was a good setup for them to assault the city themselves.

What Ogres lack, are good hero characters for us to get insight into their personalities and faction. Cho'gall is one of the characters of WoW I love the most, but he was mad and evil. We don't have much in the way of Ogre characters that aren't jokes or villains.

Ideally we would get one or two living Ogre characters, preferably a caster and a warrior, that can function as worthy champions to make Ogres cool. But... Let's face it...
They are just going to give us Rexxar again. Who isn't even an Ogre, but a Mok-Nathal crossbreed.

That was actually something I went back and forth on with this pitch before deciding to cut it to make it more simple.

The original storyline utilized our universe's Tormmok (the bodyguard from Draenor). I used him because I happen to have fond memories of him, and he's one of the few named ogres we have that is friendly and isn't confirmed dead in our universe. It seemed kind of forced in the context I used him in, so I switched it to Ko'ragh instead, but then I cut that as well because it started going off on a weird tangent for me. I thought it might be something better to discuss.

I specifically imagined one of these two as the Imperator of New Goria and the racial leader, but I'm really not sure what to do there. On one hand, a good ogre warrior seems like the perfect candidate for racial leader. Everyone expects an ogre to be a warrior, and we don't actually really have a memorable one. That's something I commented on in Heroes of the Storm before. I love Cho'gall in that game, but I still want a simple ogre that smashes things.

On the other hand, with the new ogre lore, especially post Chronicle 2, an ogre mage (like the past Imperators), seems like it could be a really cool character, especially since the Horde don't actually have any racial leaders that are mages (at least until the Allied Races).

That's actually one reason why I kinda liked the idea of fleshing out our timeline's version of Ko'ragh. He's more of a battlemage or spellsword or whatever you want to call it. He's a warrior who has magic and is anti-magic. It gives you a bit of both. I just didn't feel like I could come up with something satisfying enough for him.

As for Rexxar, I like Rexxar, but I've always gone back and forth about him with ogres. Again, I like him, and he was the Stonemaul leader for a short time, but it just feels wrong to use him instead of giving the ogres a major character. That's actually something that led me to making up more than I originally planned. The Hunter legend was originally Rexxar because I just didn't have anything else, but I decided to create an entirely new character and tie them in with a couple of other things.

Well ogres should be shaman and Monk too, they are obvious choices

I originally had Shaman and Monk on there, but I cut them to simplify things. Monk I cut because, while the idea of a Brewmaster fits them pretty well, the rest of the Monk class isn't really something that fits the currently known ogres. I actually wanted an ogre Monk when Monks were announced, but I've been having to go back and forth on that. As for Shaman, the reason I cut them is because while there are some ogre Shamans in game, the Chronicle had the ogres dismiss the power of shamanism. When they eventually tried to steal the power, it all just blew up on them and messed a lot of things up. I hear you though, I actually had Legends written out for them too, so I'll repost that in a little bit. For now I just wanted a simple version that focused on what's distinct about the culture as much as possible.

DK maybe not because the allied races start at lv 20, but i can see a Ogre dk doing the quests on WotLK

That actually completely slipped my mind. The Legend is not a character I made up though, and there are a couple of others like him in the old card game. In other words, ogre Death Knights aren't a lore problem like some other races, so maybe a compromise can be found.

and honestly i hate the concept of restricting a class to how many heads your ogre have, if i want a one head ogre mage and a 2head ogre warrior i should be able to do it, since the lore support it

That's actually a concept left over from my old website pitch. I can go back and edit out those restrictions, and probably just come up with something else entirely for that so head choice can be cosmetic.

Ogres should go to Alliance, just to shake things up a bit. They can write the lore so it works.

The thing is, I'm not entirely against this. I prefer ogres on the Horde because of history with Warcraft II and the Stonemaul clan, and the fact that they thematically fit much better on the Horde (Alliance ogres would constantly have issues with relevance, while Horde ogres just need to appear every once and awhile to feel appropriate), but in-universe it's actually a bit weird. The more they flesh out the ogres, the more they give them bad blood with the orcs. The ogres thought themselves way better than the orcs and mostly ignored them, but when push came to shove, things happened like the ogres creating the red pox and the orcs asking the elements to swallow their capital city whole. I still prefer Horde ogres, but I think it's an odd bit of trivia about the history of the races.

I like all of these ideas except for one. Rogues. Just don't see it.

I didn't used to either, but someone pushed for it once and pointed out Dagg'um Ty'gor to me. He's popular within Blizzard, and almost certainly led to Dagg in Warlords of Draenor, who's become a recurring character now and shows up multiple times in Legion. It's definitely a silly choice and I've been fighting a lot to push the less silly aspects of ogres, but I think there's still room for silly.

I like the ideas here, but I'd really prefer ogres to get the full race treatment - starting experience, mounts, the whole bit. Unfortunately, I fear that 'Allied Races' may mean Blizz never does another 'full race' again, and all future races may end up getting dropped unceremoniously in Org/Stormwind at level 20.

Same here, to both points. It's one of the reasons I'm doing this. I've had a website campaigning for a full race for years, but after two expansions in a row without new races, and now a third without races being added the traditional way, I can't help but feel they're moving away from the old system. It might sound like I'm being defeatist, but I'd like to think of it more as me trying to adapt. Much of my ideas here were recycled from a full race's starting experience I started working on. I figured using those ideas as an unlock quest at least still gives us some ogre lore and a new perspective on them, whether or not you play through it as an ogre. On the plus side, Allied Race means heritage armor. We could get one of those toga or gladiator armor sets we may not get otherwise. Also, as I said earlier, giving them Dire Maul is a stretch for what we know of Allied Races, but if the "Horde Kalimdor" thing remains, then Dire Maul can be justified as a faction thing and not an Allied Race thing.

[Kayb]

What about Shamans?

[Syegfryed]

I originally had Shaman and Monk on there, but I cut them to simplify things. Monk I cut because, while the idea of a Brewmaster fits them pretty well, the rest of the Monk class isn't really something that fits the currently known ogres. I actually wanted an ogre Monk when Monks were announced, but I've been having to go back and forth on that. As for Shaman, the reason I cut them is because while there are some ogre Shamans in game, the Chronicle had the ogres dismiss the power of shamanism. When they eventually tried to steal the power, it all just blew up on them and messed a lot of things up. I hear you though, I actually had Legends written out for them too, so I'll repost that in a little bit. For now I just wanted a simple version that focused on what's distinct about the culture as much as possible.

i can understand the reason you don't include the shamans, but there are more reasons to put then, its all about horde thematic, tribal, shamanism, strength and honor, etc, is something they have do to be, to consolidate then more into the horde

Monks, yeah you have a point, but hey, if pandarens, orcs, and even tauren are able to be WW and MW its ok for ogres, it would be something natural to then, but its no something so needed like shamans.

That actually completely slipped my mind. The Legend is not a character I made up though, and there are a couple of others like him in the old card game. In other words, ogre Death Knights aren't a lore problem like some other races, so maybe a compromise can be found.

i know they aren't lore problem, like i said they could do it the wtlk quests with the Orc counterpart like goblins, but Blizzard said they start at lv 20, Dk can't be at lv 20, only if blizzard is ok to change the concept...

That's actually a concept left over from my old website pitch. I can go back and edit out those restrictions, and probably just come up with something else entirely for that so head choice can be cosmetic.

I agre it should be cosmetic, i rly don't like restriction, especially a huge one like this, RP and how you fell with your ogre should be essential. Like i said the lore heavy support, there are a lot of 2 head ogres only warriors, and a lot of one head ogres mages and warlocks.

Like me, i would never play a 2head ogre, mainly because i have ocd, i like then, but feels rly strange to play, i like way more the onehead ones, i would fell rly bad if i could not play a mage with then

[Jokubas]

Here is what I had for Shamans and Monks, which I'll edit into the main post as well:

Shaman
Legend - Har'gunn the Blind
Shamanism is something that ogre culture has never fully acknowledged. They initially dismissed it as a quaint habit of the orcs, but after seeing its true power, they sought it for themselves. While these experiments ultimately led to the destruction of the original Goria, a tradition of ogres continued to experiment with the power. Har'gunn was a one-eyed ogre mage before he lost his eye and replaced it with a stone he discovered to have a resevoir of elemental magic. From that moment, he turned to shamanism and laid down the foundation for understanding its secrets that continues to this day.

Monk
Legend - The Storyteller
The wizened discipline of the monk was once thought beyond the reach of the brutish ogres. However, the effect of the Apexis crystals in Ogri'la created a new generation of ogres whose broken world gave them a different perspective from the first ogres exposed to the Apexis crystals. The storyteller of Ogri'la, whose true name is not known, has now become the mentor to any ogres willing to learn a more restrained form of combat.

Har'gunn was a mage mentioned briefly in an archaeology artifact I decided to expand on. "The Storyteller" is me trying to do something similar with the NPC "Ogri'la Storyteller".

i know they aren't lore problem, like i said they could do it the wtlk quests with the Orc counterpart like goblins, but Blizzard said they start at lv 20, Dk can't be at lv 20, only if blizzard is ok to change the concept...

Oh sorry, I didn't mean to imply the lore was the drawback. I meant that, for many of the Allied Races, like nightborne or lightforged draenei, they weren't around when the Lich King was active anyway so Blizzard didn't really need to think about Death Knights for them. For ogres, though, Death Knights make a lot of sense, and I think ogres would make some pretty cool Death Knights.

So I hope that, if ogres are added as an Allied Race, they find a way around the level problem.

I agre it should be cosmetic, i rly don't like restriction, especially a huge one like this, RP and how you fell with your ogre should be essential. Like i said the lore heavy support, there are a lot of 2 head ogres only warriors, and a lot of one head ogres mages and warlocks.

Like me, i would never play a 2head ogre, mainly because i have ocd, i like then, but feels rly strange to play, i like way more the onehead ones, i would fell rly bad if i could not play a mage with then

I actually really used to hate the idea of two-headed ogres, which is why the Rabid Ogre has always had only one head even when two-headed ogres were more of a meme. A more subtle, side reason I actually even set up Ogri'la the way I did was to make sure that, if ogres were added, one-headed ogres weren't passed by. Two-headed ogres have certainly grown on me over time, and the way magic is in their culture post Warlords of Draenor is something I think it pretty interesting, but I definitely want the choice to be there and I want it to be cosmetic.

[KayRule]

NO!

They'd be a full race, not a half-assed Allied Race!

[Kayb]

He's presented his idea in the form of a full race... capital city and all.

[Belisaurio]

10/10 post. The only thing that I don't like is a new Dire Maul revamp.

[Kayb]

I wouldn't mind seeing Dire Maul turned into a functioning city, it certainly has the space for it. I don't see anything wrong with the notion of retiring some older dungeons and putting some new ones in to replace them. Starting to get a vibe that maybe Azeroth will be redone again in the future, perhaps even after BfA. Now could the right time for a Dire Maul/Ogre work up

[In Ogres We Trust]

Ogres only have two locations for a potential capital:

a) Dustwallow Marsh
b) In the mountains above Dire Maul, there's ample room for a new capital city. As for the ruins themselves, I doubt that the Night Elves would tolerate such a move, and in terms of game play, we would be better off if it remained as a dungeon/raid.

Also, I don't know why you're presenting this as "your" idea when it's a common suggestion on the Lore forums.

P.S. Allied races are nothing more than a distraction/side-show, and the ogres are deserving of their own lineup within the Horde as an actual member that receives substantial lore development/focus.