The WoW Classic community is entering a civil war.

[Blackmist]

As a dedicated member of the 40 man, new graphics, 1.11, alliance shaman adventists, I offer this olive branch to the other factions.

*clears throat*

JOIN US OR DIE, INFIDELS! WE ARE THE TRUE VANILLITES!

[Mackeith]

I mean, believe what you want, I personally think they should release the game like it was, with all the bugs and the clunky graphics. Because I firmly believe a big part of the purist crowd like yourself doesn't have any idea what they are getting into.

And what does your first paragraph even't mean? You do realize there's a big difference between release Vanilla and the Naxx patch for example, right?

As for the lot of people, you just need to look at the comments in this sub, or on Reddit. Plenty of people there saying they would love some minor QoL changes.

If you want to give advice to others as to how to debate properly, at least provide well thought-of arguments. In this case, you don't even mention what patch you want them to release and think "anyone that wants some changes are just trolls!". Keeping your head in the sand will not change the fact that those people have as valid opinions as you do, even if you don't want to believe it.

So for one last time, because I'm tired of people like you that keep quoting me when they lack basic reading comprehension. I don't care about it, I'm not going to play it. I just find the "Classic should be exactly how it was, if you want changes, you're a troll REEEEE" attitude laughable, and somewhat pathetic.

As for the tedious shit, there is tedious things that are part of the experience, and there is tedious thing that was just bad game design at the time. Some people would prefer if those were improved on. As I said, I don't care, but I can see their point. But we live in an era where everyone is "if you're not with me, you're against me!", so it's useless to debate.

Alright, let's look at the crux of the issue. You were arguing why the "people" that hold the opinion that QoL should make its way in to Classic, have valid opinions. Your argument to that was, and I quote: "Also, your post is beyond stupid, Classic had many patches, I'm sure you don't even know all of them.". Now, let's have a look at the most authentic Classic experience imaginable. This would be where the server starts at 1.1.0, and is patched (client and server) all the way to 1.12.1. Now my argument to that is, if you bring part of a patch beyond 1.12.1 in to the game at any point of the patch cycles in Classic, then you're essentially creating a new version of WoW that has never existed. This movement to have Blizzard make Classic servers, was never, and will never, be about creating something new, only recreating what has already been.

Now let's look at metrics, both to inform you (because it seems you don't know what it means) and to back up my above claim. "As for the lot of people, you just need to look at the comments in this sub, or on Reddit. Plenty of people there saying they would love some minor QoL changes." This is not a metric, this is a feel. Want a proper discussion? don't include feels as facts. As an example. It is an objective fact, that 280k people signed a petition from the Nostalrius team, to have Blizzard make Classic servers. Nostalrius' philosophy was an authentic as humanly possible recreation of Vanilla, and that extends in to their plea to Blizzard which 280k signed.

"and there is tedious thing that was just bad game design at the time", another subjective statement presented as a fact. Sigh, you really do need to be better at this.

I'm done teaching you how to conduct yourself in a debate now. Have a nice day.

[Kilee25]

People are so set on splitting the community, becasue the Vanilla/Classic community have changed ALOT since Blizzcon. Before it was mostly the hardcore purist, who talked and fought for Vanilla, but now a new wave of players have joined the community, people who are not hardcore purist, but who still want to experience something more like Vanilla was back then. It is very hard to make these 2 groups come together, because they each want different things. One group believes the puriest experience is the best experience no matter what. Changes will polute the experience, even if it is changes to actually improve the overall experience. The other group wants a the best possible fun experience and are ready to let changes happend for that to come true. This group cares about the core of Vanilla, but cares far less for the pure vision of Vanilla. Unless one of these groups drops their core value (pureism Vs changes in the name of fun), there will always be a split.

I've always wanted Vanilla back, and I would have been happy with just classic and nothing else. But now that it's finally happening, I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing ways to potentially make it even better. I seriously don't see a problem with, at the very least, discussing what things might be kept or improved upon without spoiling the experience. I truly believe there are things that could be done to enhance the experience without detracting from all of the things that (in my opinion) made Vanilla great. I don't see this issue as, "You asked for this and got it, so shut up and stop asking for more." I feel like that's what you're saying, but to me that's like giving someone a free soda and then getting angry if they want a different flavor, which you clearly have the ability to give with no extra effort. If it was really hard for you to reach into the fridge and pull out a different one, then I'd understand, but at the point where you're already giving out free sodas, it seems almost mean-spirited to tell people, "Shut up and take whatever you get."

I don't view myself as betraying my principles for wishing that we get "Vanilla+". I'll be perfectly happy if we just get Vanilla. I'll be even happier if I get Vanilla plus a few things that I really wanted back when I played Vanilla. Either way I'm happy. The way I see it, we're just "quibbling" about HOW happy I'm gonna be. I don't see a problem with that.

[Bumkin]

Adding QOL changes would simply defeat the purpose,if u want LFG and cross realm and transmog, just play live wow

[kamuimac]

Adding QOL changes would simply defeat the purpose,if u want LFG and cross realm and transmog, just play live wow

are you honestly so naive that you think that people wont just use openraid as "trade chat" in order to form groups on spot near dungeons ?

like come on there is a limit .

this is not 2004 with shit intenret conenctions - people will play with classic on 1 monitor and openraid on 2nd if neeeded - or on mobile phone . just come on be real

by not adding modern lfg tool blizzard would just shoot themselves in the foot.

[Deianeira]

It seems more like bitter anti-classic people making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. They are basically still in denial that they were wrong, and that Blizzard sided with us. They are seemingly trying to incite the classic community against itself so that it burns to the ground. That won't happen. Blizzard has already said that they plan on making an authentic classic experience, and that they are in it for the long haul. They have said they want to preserve an important game in video game history.

Blizzards knows that a lot of people won't like it and they are ok with that. If only the people that play private servers showed up, it would still be successful, and a lot of classic fans won't touch private servers (for good reason). I think this mindset that everyone doesn't realize how much they are going to hate classic is also overblown. Sure, a decent amount of them will, but many won't. It's a little bit like saying that people who enjoyed LoZ Breath of the Wild will hate Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. My 12 year old nephew loves all 3 games, even though the last 2 were made years before he was born. Classic servers are here to stay and if they can be successful in Runescape and Everquest, they will do even better in the most successful MMO ever created.

Not sure how they are gonna run this in terms of monthly cost, i mean if it will be icluded in the retailsubscription or if there will be a different sub. If the latter is true then yes that would mean that Noone that are not a "Vanilla lover" and wont sub have a say in what will and will not be in the game. And from what i read about from all the fans they will surely be able to support the teams for the Classicservers with only Nost/elysium numbers because they are probably untold numbers. But if they bake this into the current sub then i will be damned if i am gonna let some elitist sob with a hardon for the "goodole days" tell me i CANNOT have my say in what is implemented. Im not saying that what i say should automatically go, but when people say "this is not for you" or you have no say you troll, then as a poster earliers said FUCK OFF i will say whatever the hell i want.

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So you got real life friends who want Classic with LFG, right? And want more content after Naxx, right?

Oke. Sounds legit and sane. Not trolling at all [sarcasm].

And you are telling me that you will continue to play classic servers for years and years with Naxx as last content? PLEASE give me a break.

[Wries]

And you are telling me that you will continue to play classic servers for years and years with Naxx as last content? PLEASE give me a break.

Besides the fact that leveling and gearing towards naxx takes a pretty long time given the game design of vanilla, I'd argue that the era of WoW was also the least "theme park" driven iteration, nobody really told you what to do and there was less of a right and wrong way to approach the game.

Since it's more about a community aspect I'd assume people could possibly be happy with Naxx being the end-game for all eternity. Not everyone of course, but that is what BfA and onwards is for.

[orderschvank]

they shouldnt make any drastic changes until after the servers launch.

if possible they need to figure out a way for only people who actually play on the servers to vote for changes.

god knows that all the classic/vanilla haters will vote for the dumbest options if they are allowed to.

[The7]

You think you do, but you don't.

[Deianeira]

Besides the fact that leveling and gearing towards naxx takes a pretty long time given the game design of vanilla, I'd argue that the era of WoW was also the least "theme park" driven iteration, nobody really told you what to do and there was less of a right and wrong way to approach the game.

Since it's more about a community aspect I'd assume people could possibly be happy with Naxx being the end-game for all eternity. Not everyone of course, but that is what BfA and onwards is for.

Yes sure they Will be, until they get Bored and ”We want BC now!” And sure there Will probably be a select few that could want to play forever. But i doubt they Will be many.

[The Emperor]

How many more topics on this are we going to have? It doesn't matter in the slightest how much more "difficult"(and thus more rewarding) everything felt in vanilla, or how many people shall quit because they had rose-tinted glasses on -- people who want vanilla will stay, and that is all that matters.

[Jngizu]

snip

It's hilarious how you try to "teach" me anything, when you fail at understanding basic concepts. AKA, I'm not looking to have a debate, especially with someone like you who's trying to argue semantics when he has no arguments. You only need to read the many posts in this thread to see that a lot of people would like some QoL changes. As of right now, Blizzard has not been clear on what they will release exactly. They could go with the purist mentality or they could try to improve the game in some areas where they feel it would not deter from the overall feel and experience of Vanilla.

As to Vanilla having huge design flaws, it is a fact. Saying otherwise is nonsensical. You could even call those outdated systems if it makes you feel better, but it is the same. Me saying the game is better now would be an opinion presented as fact. See the difference?

You're just too insecure, or delusional, or both, to accept the idea that some people disagree with your purist opinion. So next time you try being a teacher and pedantic, focus on reading properly, and you know, understand what other people say, instead of attacking anyone whom you disagree with. Especially when you do such a terrible job at it.

P.S: "This movement to have Blizzard make Classic servers, was never, and will never, be about creating something new, only recreating what has already been." Because that isn't a subjective statement presented as fact maybe? Get out of here.

[Deficineiron]

I've always wanted Vanilla back, and I would have been happy with just classic and nothing else. But now that it's finally happening, I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing ways to potentially make it even better. I seriously don't see a problem with, at the very least, discussing what things might be kept or improved upon without spoiling the experience. I truly believe there are things that could be done to enhance the experience without detracting from all of the things that (in my opinion) made Vanilla great. I don't see this issue as, "You asked for this and got it, so shut up and stop asking for more." I feel like that's what you're saying, but to me that's like giving someone a free soda and then getting angry if they want a different flavor, which you clearly have the ability to give with no extra effort. If it was really hard for you to reach into the fridge and pull out a different one, then I'd understand, but at the point where you're already giving out free sodas, it seems almost mean-spirited to tell people, "Shut up and take whatever you get."

I don't view myself as betraying my principles for wishing that we get "Vanilla+". I'll be perfectly happy if we just get Vanilla. I'll be even happier if I get Vanilla plus a few things that I really wanted back when I played Vanilla. Either way I'm happy. The way I see it, we're just "quibbling" about HOW happy I'm gonna be. I don't see a problem with that.

for purposes of forum debate, you have to assume that if in the end you get everything added you would like, and the things you are indifferent to, you will get an equal or greater amount of stuff you really don't want included as well.

I think this is often the guiding motivation for people who take an almost dogmatic line on 'no changes' - they realize there is no logical reason why the stuff they don't like shouldn't be included once they themselves as for stuff.

I also think all this is only tangentially important to blizzard and that they are going to include all kinds of stuff, mainly geared towards folks who might have liked later expansions 3.0 and later, but would suffer unduly under classic's more rigorous expectations.

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they shouldnt make any drastic changes until after the servers launch.

if possible they need to figure out a way for only people who actually play on the servers to vote for changes.

god knows that all the classic/vanilla haters will vote for the dumbest options if they are allowed to.

there won't be any votes unless a) they already know how the results will go or b) it is a topic so trivial they don't care or c) it is for internal political use on same.

[hulkgor]

you must've noticed that the community, which was once united in their single purpose of having Vanilla servers, is now fracturing itself between radicals, moderates and liberals (reformists).

Not at all.

You simply had a huge crowd that never paid any mind to classic, that even whined and mocked when people asked for an official classic realm, but now that its coming, just decided to come forth and spew shit and try to ruin it entirely, or mold it to their liking.

The people who asked for vanilla aren't fractured at all, they are all united in having a similar classic. No QOL, no balance changes, etc.

Sadly, a whole bunch of loud voiced decided to get into the fray, and they have no clue of what vanilla was, and you can tell by some of the shitty ideas or suggestions. "Boost to 50", "paladins\shamans on both factions", "dual spec!", "no cost for skills on trainer", "complete rebalance of every spec to make them viable". That isn't vanilla... just play Legion\BFA instead?

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How many more topics on this are we going to have? It doesn't matter in the slightest how much more "difficult"(and thus more rewarding) everything felt in vanilla, or how many people shall quit because they had rose-tinted glasses on -- people who want vanilla will stay, and that is all that matters.

^^ People don't seem to realize this, even with private realms being popular and active for the past decade, even with a lot of issues and no guarantee of uptime\longevity.

[bryroo]

"What made Vanilla Wow great was the community!"

Classic community militants attacks anyone as trolls for not agreeing with them completely

[Jyggalag]

The people who asked for vanilla aren't fractured at all, they are all united in having a similar classic. No QOL, no balance changes, etc.

^^ People don't seem to realize this

I played Vanilla. I asked for legacy servers. I'm asking for QoL changes. Your statement is invalid, and you don't seem to realize ^^

[ManiaCCC]

I played Vanilla. I asked for legacy servers. I'm asking for QoL changes.

That's two of us buddy.

[Sastank]

Again, so many players think they want Vanilla now that it's announced they want literally so many changes it won't be Vanilla. The only thing that will be Classic about it that they want to keep is the level cap at 60.

[Deficineiron]

I played Vanilla. I asked for legacy servers. I'm asking for QoL changes. Your statement is invalid, and you don't seem to realize ^^

That's two of us buddy.

do either of you have a level of QoL changes you feel would be TOO MUCH or make you less interested?

Anything is on the table, including portals, LFD?R, flying, outdoor mobs that tickle and giggle, modern bg timers and honor system, very fast leveling, pet battles, professions more along retail lines - - anything.

[ManiaCCC]

Again, so many players think they want Vanilla now that it's announced they want literally so many changes it won't be Vanilla. The only thing that will be Classic about it that they want to keep is the level cap at 60.

There is a lot of thing what made Vanilla Vanilla. Old talent trees, reagents, class design, crafting, items rarity, 40 man raids, hard dungeons and much more. It is possible to keep everything I just mentioned and more and still update WoW to more modern state. From visuals, code, infrastructure to some gameplay adjustments. WoW Vanilla was unfinished product, I think WoW Classic should build upon WoW Vanilla foundation but not limit itself just for sake to keep every single brick the same.

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do either of you have a level of QoL changes you feel would be TOO MUCH or make you less interested?

It will be easier, if I will write, what I would love to see in WoW classic changed.
Some zones suffers from lack of quests, unfinished quest lines, etc. This is one area I would love if they could check and make some improvements if needed. Also look into old talent trees and check, if they can improve some bad specs without changing them completely. Whole "only warrior can tank raids" was stupid in Vanilla, it would be stupid now. Also, some specs were dead in either PvE or PvP. If some number changes could improve that, that would be great.

Also I would love if they would bring ability to teleport party members through meeting stones. It was good addition in my opinion in TBC.
Of course, using new code for movement abilities, so you are not stuck constantly when you are blinking etc. and some other improvements under the hood.

And also removes Dishonorable Kills. This is probably all I would love to see changed. At least for release of Classic.