Blizzard Should Make Mythic Raids Personal Loot

[Bloodmagix]

Why? So it's random chance/easier to get gear instead of earning a raid spot and proving to your loot council that you deserve strong items? No thanks.

[Eyechewer]

Removing player control is never a good idea.
I say we should just stop tuning bosses for the 0.01% who have no self control.

[krl]

The Mythic world first race is DEAD, there is zero competition, it comes down solely to the quantity of split raids a guild is capable of doing to enable the plethora of well geared alts to come in at a moment's notice for stacking purposes.

It may seem that way to you, it's not the case. The mythic world first race is very much alive. Those people take pride in being top 10/100 etc. and rightfully so.

The fact that it comes down mostly to preparation and time spent is a well-known fact, it's always been so. WoW is an MMO.

[Cannibalus]

@Myta
This is ur char -> https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...roudmoore/myta. It has 2/9 Hc progress, which is kinda shit. So let me understand this... you're very socially active in the community aka u have many friends that sit in ur lap and vent so you've gotten all this statistic data of bad shit happening with the game, Method iz cunt etc. Seriously, in the time it took you to get all this data and write it, literally in all this time it took you to just waste time, you could have done some HC bosses.
/peace
Infracted

[Feuerbart]

1. you can´t fix splitruns for every barrier you build there is a solution the very last being x accounts for x chars which you can´t circumvent
2. splitruns aren´t a problem for 99% of the raiding players
3. opposing your statement titanforging is a big culprit especially in combination with splitruns and m+, it reduces the option of overgearing because the top guilds are already overgeared the first time around which means lesser guild have a hard time overgearing bosses

And no pl is bad. How often did you get a fucking bad trinket for your class that you could not trade because it has higher itemlevel as what you are wearing? I have seen this often enough. People offer items to then see they can´t trade them. Masterlooter is the best system for most guild groups. If you want to use PL do it but don´t force it on others.

[Deleted]

Why do you care? Your guild is 5/9M and 3000th in the world (do you actively raid with them even?). Whatever drops in Mythic and however it drops isn't relevant to you or your group.

[Deleted]

Not a single response in this thread understands it. The issue described by OP is the horrendous tuning of bosses that is caused by overgearing. You all are just discussing why you enjoy ML more than PL, no one is actually discussing the topic which is one shot boss mechanics that are necessary to compensate for overgeared players.

Is OPs solution the best solution? No idea, but at least try to fucking understand the actual issue before posting.

[Tradu]

Not a single response in this thread understands it. The issue described by OP is the horrendous tuning of bosses that is caused by overgearing. You all are just discussing why you enjoy ML more than PL, no one is actually discussing the topic which is one shot boss mechanics that are necessary to compensate for overgeared players.

Is OPs solution the best solution? No idea, but at least try to fucking understand the actual issue before posting.

Except I directly addressed that issue. Tune around top10-top50 guilds(good players without a huge amount of split raids), not top2. Get rid of TF so overgearing content can actually happen again(because TF is why worse guilds can no longer overgear content, not split raids). Problem solved.

[Hulkovius]

They should lock TF/WF with +15 maximum ilvls from base ilvl. Say WQ relic in Stormheim. Base 880. Cant get better than 895. Mythic ToS harjatan 930 maximum TF is 945.
Tuning around 50-100 guilds is probably the best.
To be fair Personal loot is not the option. Most guild wouldnt find that very nice since the level of your raiders in any average guild is still too big and you wouldnt want a new trial etc. have all the luck/gear.

[borisshayo]

Not a single response in this thread understands it. The issue described by OP is the horrendous tuning of bosses that is caused by overgearing. You all are just discussing why you enjoy ML more than PL, no one is actually discussing the topic which is one shot boss mechanics that are necessary to compensate for overgeared players.

Is OPs solution the best solution? No idea, but at least try to fucking understand the actual issue before posting.

Except this makes no fucking sense. Top guilds having a high item level when reaching the final boss forces Blizzard to design a million one shot mechanics? They couldn't have just tuned mythic KJ to be a challenge with ilvl 935 for top guilds and nerf him later (either directly or indirectly with something like the NLC) so it's still manageable for a top ~1000 guild? I guess ilvl 935 is the magic breakpoint where it's impossible to design a damage pattern that is non trivial and also not a one shot mechanic?

Yes, the ilvl gap between a top guild reaching the final boss week 1 and the average mythic guild getting to it a couple of months into the tier is relatively small. Despite this, there is still a massive power level difference between these two groups of players. If there was an ever increasing gear level progression they just wouldn't fucking put in systems like the neterlight crucible or the 7.2 traits. The result is functionally identical: players who are late to the party have much more powerful characters than top players did when they progressed on the same boss. Unlike Method, most guilds who killed KJ had the luxury of 3 tanking the boss while still easily making the P1 DPS check. Right now there's even guilds who 2 tank/3 heal the boss and BL on phase 2 so they can skip the hardest part of the fight, still easily making the P1 check. Avatar doesn't even have a DPS check anymore, same goes for Mistress where you don't even have to pick up the goddamned fish these days.

You seriously need to have your head up your ass to think that the situation with ToS is because of some systematic problem with how gear distribution works or something. How come Nighthold was tuned just fine? The gear situation was exactly the same, yet Gul'dan didn't have a million soaking/instant wipe mechanics? And he was considered to be a reasonable challenge by top guilds and the average mythic raider alike. Maybe, just a thought here, but maybe the real problem is that KJ is just a badly designed boss?

[Deleted]

Except this makes no fucking sense. Top guilds having a high item level when reaching the final boss forces Blizzard to design a million one shot mechanics? They couldn't have just tuned mythic KJ to be a challenge with ilvl 935 for top guilds and nerf him later (either directly or indirectly with something like the NLC) so it's still manageable for a top ~1000 guild? I guess ilvl 935 is the magic breakpoint where it's impossible to design a damage pattern that is non trivial and also not a one shot mechanic?

Yes, the ilvl gap between a top guild reaching the final boss week 1 and the average mythic guild getting to it a couple of months into the tier is relatively small. Despite this, there is still a massive power level difference between these two groups of players. If there was an ever increasing gear level progression they just wouldn't fucking put in systems like the neterlight crucible or the 7.2 traits. The result is functionally identical: players who are late to the party have much more powerful characters than top players did when they progressed on the same boss. Unlike Method, most guilds who killed KJ had the luxury of 3 tanking the boss while still easily making the P1 DPS check. Right now there's even guilds who 2 tank/3 heal the boss and BL on phase 2 so they can skip the hardest part of the fight, still easily making the P1 check. Avatar doesn't even have a DPS check anymore, same goes for Mistress where you don't even have to pick up the goddamned fish these days.

You seriously need to have your head up your ass to think that the situation with ToS is because of some systematic problem with how gear distribution works or something. How come Nighthold was tuned just fine? The gear situation was exactly the same, yet Gul'dan didn't have a million soaking/instant wipe mechanics? And he was considered to be a reasonable challenge by top guilds and the average mythic raider alike. Maybe, just a thought here, but maybe the real problem is that KJ is just a badly designed boss?

I didn't say I agreed with OP, I was just annoyed by asisine comments like "No, PL suxx bad"

[Sylvaeres]

Already an incensing title. This is going to make people very angry, but hear me out, on why this is good not only for the short term, but long term health of the game.

Gear is not rewarding enough, and at the same time it is TOO rewarding.

With Split Raids, Mythic/Heroic and Mythic+ all being their own difficulty tiers, with titanforging, raiders have had access to more gear in Legion compared to any other raid in WoW.

However at the same time, each individual trinket or item is robbed of it's significance, back in the day when you got that item, it was more important. Now it feels like if you get the item you're after but it's not Titanforged a bazillion times, it's junk because it's not a marginal ilvl upgrade over your current one.

Raid Bosses in Legion are wildly out of tune with each other, and a huge culprit of this is the design of the encounters themselves.

Since titanforge is so prevalent players were basically end game geared by the time of Nighthold release, this required Nighthold and further raids to be designed in a way that they were so punishing gear isn't a factor.

You might assume that means the problem is Titanforging.

No, I don't. The problem is the sheer quantity of gear people are able to acquire, allowing for the increased likelihood of rolling crazy Titanforge pieces. If gear wasn't rewarded to players at such an extreme quanity, this issue wouldn't be prevalent. A titanforged item should be rare, not expected.

So why enforce Personal Loot

Blizzard has already said they plan to tweak Titanforging chances, this should fix 99% of all issues with the rest of the game. BfA tuning should be far more controlled overall due to this change.

However that 1% is an outlier where Mythic raiding currently enforces split runs more than any other expansion, with Method raiding twice the hours of the #2 guild. The Mythic world first race is DEAD, there is zero competition, it comes down solely to the quantity of split raids a guild is capable of doing to enable the plethora of well geared alts to come in at a moment's notice for stacking purposes. Bosses have to be tuned to ridiculous degrees even more to prevent these guilds from just walking over them, making one Mythic for Method, and another Mythic for top 200 guilds, and a 3rd Mythic for top 1000 guilds.

I have been raiding since WoW began, and it has never been this bad, raids are lasting shorter than ever, the burnout rate is insane right now due to rampant, and aggravating 'wipe the raid' mechanics that serve no purpose but to frustrate, bosses like Kil'jaeden in his current state are just not fun, they are infuriating, players are more geared than ever, but at the same time fights are designed so they can't be brute forced towards the end of a tier's life.

And most of all, Antorus will launch with less than a thousand guilds having downing Kil'jaeden. Guilds who have been raiding since the start of WoW, who've downed the final boss on the hardest difficulty every tier for over a decade have stopped raiding in Legion.

It's time to push Personal Loot as the only option for Mythic raiding. You can increase the rate so PL for Mythic is better than PL for Heroic. Kill split raids, forever, this should not be a thing. Need an alt for Method, have alt raids. But split raids and gear feeding? It needs to be dead for good. Then and only then can you tune the raids properly and make world first and server firsts actually have meaning again.

From the forum threads I've seen today, it's like it's National Create a Bad Idea Day

[Spotnick]

Would be a terrible idea, gear is a mean to an end for a GROUP, not for personal reasons.

Just imagine if your trials would get gear over your core raiders on farm bosses when you're not done and how it would gimp you.

Your system would make sure trials would never ever raid before the content is cleared.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Absolutely no reason to be encouraging this. We tried personal in EN mythic and it ended up with two back to back progression kills dropping 895 pieces for two players who didn't want them, one because of legendaries, and one because it was a ring.

Personal loot should ONLY be used in situations where you can't trust the group leader, NEVER in group raiding where you actually care about loot.

[ramayana1423]

One of the worst ideas I've read to fix loot/split raids.

[Trend]

Not a single response in this thread understands it. The issue described by OP is the horrendous tuning of bosses that is caused by overgearing. You all are just discussing why you enjoy ML more than PL, no one is actually discussing the topic which is one shot boss mechanics that are necessary to compensate for overgeared players.

Is OPs solution the best solution? No idea, but at least try to fucking understand the actual issue before posting.

You seem to think you're really smart, but I would have to disagree. Both you and the OP fall pretty far short of basic comprehension. Now, just take a deep breath and consider: is it possible that Blizzard did not tune for split raid groups and instead simply made M ToS too hard based on their own internal team's testing? Personally, based on the fact they came out and said that the latter is what happened, I would tend to think that. Then add to that the fact that most people think M EN was too easy, and there has been no change to split runs and personal loot since then. Maybe nailing the ideal difficulty of a raid experience isn't as easy as you think it is and it has absolutely nothing to do with the assumptions made in the OP.

So thanks for sharing your superior understanding with all of us, but you're wrong.

[Deleted]

You seem to think you're really smart, but I would have to disagree. Both you and the OP fall pretty far short of basic comprehension. Now, just take a deep breath and consider: is it possible that Blizzard did not tune for split raid groups and instead simply made M ToS too hard based on their own internal team's testing? Personally, based on the fact they came out and said that the latter is what happened, I would tend to think that. Then add to that the fact that most people think M EN was too easy, and there has been no change to split runs and personal loot since then. Maybe nailing the ideal difficulty of a raid experience isn't as easy as you think it is and it has absolutely nothing to do with the assumptions made in the OP.

So thanks for sharing your superior understanding with all of us, but you're wrong.

You seem to think you're really smart, but I never said I agreed with OP. I said that people should discuss the topic, not make stupid comments about how PL suxx balls.

[Sinte]

Ah yes, lets shit on my guild's ability to make a choice to who should get gear, because some rando's peepee hurts that other people get gear over him. Personal loot is cancer.

[vsb]

Fuck no. And the issue is definitely titanforging. If there were fewer loot drops, you'd just see even more extreme outliers and more of a gap between lucky people and unlucky people, because at least the increased amount of loot somewhat smooths out the titanforging RNG.

That's correct. Personal loot for mythic is an interesting suggestion, but I see this problem as a main issue. Split raids are very toxic. I'm seeing those raids in the very casual guilds that never would think about it in earlier addons. That's just absurd.

[david0925]

The OP went on great length to try to keep Titanforge in the game while fixing issues that are brought about almost exclusively by Titanforge. I also don't think fights filled with one shots mechanics are a consequence of TF gear and this argument has been blown way out of proportion, if it even really holds at all except for a few bosses