Vanilla Dungeon/Raid Nerfs

[Deleted]

They could always roll out the patches in order.

or just bring out a server with 1.12 and never touch it again

[Daffan]

Easiest option is to put 1.12.1 and then buff all the raids and dungeons to accommodate for the newer itemized gear and talent changes.

If they don't buff any content, then it'l be easier then it was in Vanilla, MC was cleared in 11 days from Launch on 1x leveling priv servers with 1.12.1 due to itemization and talents giving a huge leg up in power over what was available normally in 2004/2005 and early 2006.

[pateuvasiliu]

The hard part isnt the tank transition. You could mark the tank 1 - 2- 3 or you coult just let them battle for threat and telling whos the next tank. The hard part was killing him before the buff ran on progress, so many 1% wipes. Oh, and that one rogue who wouldnt vanish early.

Probably because people weren't coming with Songflower/Ony Buff/Juju/DM Buffs/Consumes.

Probably because you had a lot of slackers in PvP spec or too many Hybrid DPSers instead of Rogues/Warriors?

Literally never had a problem on Vael due to DPS.

[Deleted]

Probably because people weren't coming with Songflower/Ony Buff/Juju/DM Buffs/Consumes.

Probably because you had a lot of slackers in PvP spec or too many Hybrid DPSers instead of Rogues/Warriors?

Literally never had a problem on Vael due to DPS.

Didnt Check the buffs, but the Two serverfirst videos i watched were longer thank 3 minutes.

[pateuvasiliu]

That's just semantics. The difficulties weren't explicitly defined but there definitely were various difficulties of play.

Like what? You could go with a raid of Feral DPS players instead of Rogues/Warriors? Shooting yourself in the leg isn't difficulty.

[RapBreon]

This is real good (it is, good job!), but I was also hoping for class changes.

It's so hard to find 1.1 talent tree calculators wtf.

Like what? You could go with a raid of Feral DPS players instead of Rogues/Warriors? Shooting yourself in the leg isn't difficulty.

In the context of Dark Souls. Classes. Didn't pick Deprived? You played easy mode my friend.

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Easiest option is to put 1.12.1 and then buff all the raids and dungeons to accommodate for the newer itemized gear and talent changes.

If they don't buff any content, then it'l be easier then it was in Vanilla, MC was cleared in 11 days from Launch on 1x leveling priv servers with 1.12.1 due to itemization and talents giving a huge leg up in power over what was available normally in 2004/2005 and early 2006.

Yeah I'm down for this approach.

[MAGAmobile]

Yeah, let's not. Most bosses in Classic when they were first launched were bugged to the point of being unkillable. I'm not talking about just C'thun, either. C'thun was overtuned and bugged. Onyxia spammed wing buffets multiple times. Sons of flame for Rag didn't despawn if you wiped, etc.

[pateuvasiliu]

You could stick to raiding the easier content. Do dungeons. Play BGs. Level alts.

Did you think this through?

Are you going to compare having dungeons and raids to having like 4 difficulties to raids?

Really?

No. It's simple. The later WoW expansions have joke difficulties so casuals can defeat the bosses and get their epic loots. That makes the content mean nothing as in early WoW killing a boss and ending a storyline truly meant something prestigious.

Nowadays that's not the case.

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This is real good (it is, good job!), but I was also hoping for class changes.

It's so hard to find 1.1 talent tree calculators wtf.



In the context of Dark Souls. Classes. Didn't pick Deprived? You played easy mode my friend.

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Yeah I'm down for this approach.

That's still nerfing yourself. Self made nerfs can go on forever. Oh game was too easy for you? Play with your controller upside down.

[RapBreon]

That's still nerfing yourself. Self made nerfs can go on forever. Oh game was too easy for you? Play with your controller upside down.

What's the difference between picking a class that does 1/3 damage and takes 3x damage. Or a hard mode in another game where you take 3x damage and do 1/3rd damage (not unlike raiding difficulties).

Both are functionally self-nerfs. However, they both are still presented by and function within the game's design. Bit different from playing only with your toes (which would be impressive).

[Marston]

I hope for either of two things:

- Roll out the patches as they were released.
- Make a 1.13, basically a "best of Vanilla". For example, include all the class changes up to 1.12 and stuff like T0.5, but revert Alterac to it's 1.5 or 1.8 form and also buff dungeons up again.

Fixing bugs and exploits should happen in both cases anyway.

[Mormolyce]

It's so hard to find 1.1 talent tree calculators wtf.

Mmmm, the only site I can find that seems to have it is "vanillagaming" but it's offline.

[pateuvasiliu]

I don't need to compare them. They're both different examples of the same concept.

No they aren't. Dungeons being easy allow players to clear dungeons.

Most Vanilla players never killed Kel'thuzad, you had to work for it.

In Legion killing the end boss means nothing as everyone does it.

That's what difficulty is, kills lose all prestige when there's 100 difficulties so even Bob the retard can do it.

[Mormolyce]

No. It's simple. The later WoW expansions have joke difficulties so casuals can defeat the bosses and get their epic loots. That makes the content mean nothing as in early WoW killing a boss and ending a storyline truly meant something prestigious.

Whereas Vanilla only had the joke difficulty.

[Nitros14]

Whereas Vanilla only had the joke difficulty.

Molten Core and Onyxia were really really simple and undertuned, but C'thun and later Naxxramas bosses were tuned to the standard of mythic raids on numbers requirements, even if they were less complicated by our standards.

It was a different game though. AoE threat basically didn't exist and taunt was melee range on a 15 second cooldown and there was no misdirect or tricks so fights like Gothik the Harvester were much harder than they might seem.

[pateuvasiliu]

Most retails players never killed mythic KJ or Gul'dan or any other last boss on mythic difficulty.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? You keep equating the end boss to any version fo the difficulty and that's just blatantly false.

It doesn't matter. They still killed Kil'jaeden.


Of course I do. It's irrelevant how much HP or damage your Kil'jaeden had. You still killed him. You cleared the raid, you finished the story.

Killing a boss has no prestige when everyone does it.

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Whereas Vanilla only had the joke difficulty.

If Vanilla is joke difficulty then Legion is even worse considering PUGs kill legendary figures like Kil'jaeden and Gul'dan.

[Deletedaccount1]

Why are people on here still debating this? Private servers solved this years ago.

[Daffan]

Why are people on here still debating this? Private servers solved this years ago.

No, they didn't.

[Deletedaccount1]

No, they didn't.

Yes they did. The vanilla community has a comfortable meta figured out.

[Charge me Doctor]

Yes they did. The vanilla community has a comfortable meta figured out.

Private servers echo chamber has a comfortable meta figured out.

[Bloodclaut]

I have to agree that the difficulty system ruined the emotional story aspect of raiding. Killing a boss on mythic just doesn’t feel as cool. You don’t get exclusive content for your difficulty, just the same bosses tuned to be more difficult.

In Vanilla even getting deep in AQ40 was special. You walk through these raids and experience their essence and asthetics, its not something most people got to experience. The journey was coveted. The first time you kill any boss should be the hardest.

Back to the OP, I don’t think Blizzard will put in the work to do this. I like the idea and would prefer it that way, but it could slow down the early end-game participation. More people might just wait it out and farm gold and level alts until dungeon items are more aquireable a few patches in since we already know what buffs/nerfs are on the horizon.

This only caters to the earliest raiders who want that experience but this also means hard core raiders farming MC for T2 items before they get changed and moved to BWL. The question you should ask yourself is whether blizzard will put in X amount of work doing this in order to provide an experience that affects less people over an objectively short time period.

I just don’t see it happening to the extent you desire.