Traditional raid tier sets will be removed with BfA

[Eurhetemec]

They're doing it for a "suddenly important" reason without thinking of the long term consequences, or even worse, they know the consequences and just don't give a damn.

That is an utter ludicrous belief.

There is literally no chance they haven't though this through and discussed it far more than you, far more thoughtfully, and far less emotionally.

That you believe otherwise is completely bizarre and not reflective of reality. This is literally their job. Whereas for you it's some shit you post about idly on message boards.

[shaunika123]

They're doing it for a "suddenly important" reason without thinking of the long term consequences, or even worse, they know the consequences and just don't give a damn.

long term consequences, such as? I'm genuinely interested, because while I do think sets have an important role, and WILL miss them, if they manage to make azerite a better more flexible alternative, and dont skimp out on transmog design, then I dont see a big downside, aside from the nostalgic value of sets i guess?

they mentioned a plethora of sound reasons for removing the set items. but since they didnt explain the new alternative thoroughly we cant know if those reasons have actual merit or not. For now we have two options, trust that they have some idea about what they're doing, or be completely outraged after only hearing partial information.

I choose to be skeptical, but accepting.

[Onikaroshi]

That is an utter ludicrous belief.

There is literally no chance they haven't though this through and discussed it far more than you, far more thoughtfully, and far less emotionally.

That you believe otherwise is completely bizarre and not reflective of reality. This is literally their job. Whereas for you it's some shit you post about idly on message boards.

I mean, I kind of figured they new it would kill raiding for most people, and just didn't care. I just WANTED to try and give them the benefit of the doubt. I mean, they didn't think players would farm up full Artifact weapons before NH either.

[grexly75]

So we're not allowed to voice our opinion of what we feel, at this point, is a shitty change because they need to change just to change? Change for change sake isn't good change.

So my opinion on this change it not allowed now? I get it if I am not in the hate change negative camp then my opinion is not allowed..

[Onikaroshi]

long term consequences, such as? I'm genuinely interested, because while I do think sets have an important role, and WILL miss them, if they manage to make azerite a better more flexible alternative, and dont skimp out on transmog design, then I dont see a big downside, aside from the nostalgic value of sets i guess?

Big down side: M+ becomes more lucrative then raiding with less full time investment (why raid for 6 hrs a week when i can get equal or better in 3 or less) which leads to a further decline in the raiding player base they seek greener pastures.

- - - Updated - - -

So my opinion on this change it not allowed now? I get it if I am not in the hate change negative camp then my opinion is not allowed..

No, you can voice your opinion as well, but you basically said we're complaining because we don't want blizzard to make changes. I just don't want blizzard to make THIS change.

Or actually, I'm fine with making the change if they offer in return, like raid exclusive talents for your azurite pieces.

[Twilight Cultist]

legendaries are gone, you will still only have 4 pieces locked for sets like always

Yes, removing legendaries solved a few problems, including opening up 2 more slots. I already commented about the Heart of Azeroth and the 3 pieces that are empowered by it:

On the topic of the 3 empowered slots. Those don't work like tier. According to what we have seen so far, all pieces in the game in those slots (Helm, Shoulders, Chest) are empowered by the Heart of Azeroth. So you will replace them like you would any other of gear aside from the fact that you have to take the certain traits they have into account when seeing what is better. Also, all empowered pieces with the same name have the exact same traits. So if you get that piece in LFR and then get it again on Heroic, they will have the same traits, so there is no RNG involved.

[grexly75]

long term consequences, such as? I'm genuinely interested, because while I do think sets have an important role, and WILL miss them, if they manage to make azerite a better more flexible alternative, and dont skimp out on transmog design, then I dont see a big downside, aside from the nostalgic value of sets i guess?

And this is the thing we have know idea what this new system will be like, people are just hopping on the hate change bandwagon without knowing what Blizzard have up their sleeves..

Also some of the Tier set bonuses in Legion for some classes are not that great..

[Torrasque]

Personally, I prefer smaller sets, 2, 3, 4 items maximum and then mixing and matching them across a variety of equipment slots. I find that more intriguing and satisfying when collecting and mastering the itemization.

[Aaronioslo]

That is an utter ludicrous belief.

There is literally no chance they haven't though this through and discussed it far more than you, far more thoughtfully, and far less emotionally.

That you believe otherwise is completely bizarre and not reflective of reality. This is literally their job. Whereas for you it's some shit you post about idly on message boards.

oh, nothing had ever gone wrong in the history of wow after your blizzdaddy had had these discussions

[Moxal]

Despite my classes not having very good set bonuses for a couple of tiers, I will still miss them.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

oh, nothing had ever gone wrong in the history of wow after your blizzdaddy had had these discussions

This is the type of response that makes Blizzard just refuse to listen. It's also condescending.

[Onikaroshi]

And this is the thing we have know idea what this new system will be like, people are just hopping on the hate change bandwagon without knowing what Blizzard have up their sleeves..

Also some of the Tier set bonuses in Legion for some classes are not that great..

"Some were not great so lets remove them all"

They should have just left the announcement until the had all the info, not just a part of it. If this IS all the info and the changes though raiding is screwed, but if they offer an alternative they should have waited til the had the alternative to announce as well.

We can only work the with info given, and currently the only info states tier sets are gone, no other changes.

[StaeleAilar]

If they also cap warforging at Mythic raids and don't have mythic raid gear warforge or titanforge I honestly believe the loot system will be as good as it ever was in this game.

That will entirely kill raiding. So it's a no from me.

I don't think this is a wise decision on the part of Ion, i think it's a terrible design choice. If tier isn't working the way they anticipated, go back to 4 piece bonus' and only offering tier in those 4 pieces like it was for a while.
While the idea of the gear being themed around the content could be good, they rarely deliver on the art of gear these days imo.

[shaunika123]

Big down side: M+ becomes more lucrative then raiding with less full time investment (why raid for 6 hrs a week when i can get equal or better in 3 or less) which leads to a further decline in the raiding player base they seek greener pastures.

.

one does not automatically guarantee the other.

currently mythic+ gives 915 and raids give 930 baseline and final bosses give 10 more. if we go by that logic, then the difference will still be there, and if that difference stays mythic+ will stil be marginally less rewarding.

mythic+'s power comes from titanforging, and since the azerite items can't TF, all that happens is that you'll have one less mandatory item from raids (4 set vs 3 azerite) the rest can still all come from mythic+

you dont see people stop raiding mythic once they get their 4pc and then just spam mythic+ do you?

most people that only raided mythic for the high gear have already stopped raiding when TF came out. this wont change a thing.

and if WoW gets more players because people can do mythic+s more competitively then all the better for the game

[grexly75]

"Some were not great so lets remove them all"

They should have just left the announcement until the had all the info, not just a part of it. If this IS all the info and the changes though raiding is screwed, but if they offer an alternative they should have waited til the had the alternative to announce as well.

We can only work the with info given, and currently the only info states tier sets are gone, no other changes.

From the front page:

Options from these sets will be rolled into how the Azerite system works for more customization in enhancing spells and abilities.

[Onikaroshi]

one does not automatically guarantee the other.

currently mythic+ gives 915 and raids give 930 baseline, if we go by that logic, then the difference will still be there, and if that difference stays mythic+ will stil be marginally less rewarding.

and even if it doesn't

raid trinkets in general are vastly more powerful than mythic+ trinkets.

That depends on how they tune the trinkets, for the first half of the expansion M+ trinkets were more powerful than raid trinkets.

M+ gives 915 every time yes, but the chest gives 930. Good chance you'll get more 930 pieces over time doing M+ then raiding, specially at the start seeing as Raid loot is pretty limited and you can go weeks without a piece.

[Aaronioslo]

Yes, removing legendaries solved a few problems, including opening up 2 more slots. I already commented about the Heart of Azeroth and the 3 pieces that are empowered by it:

and? this does not cause more slots being locked

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That's really the ONLY thing that seems like worth worrying about here.

Set bonuses can DIAF, seriously they can. The mechanical interest can be handled better by other systems, including Azerite armour.

But if they're just doing this so that they can do 25% as much art, then er, fuck those guys.

If, on the other hand, they're still doing 12 "looks" (or even 8), and you can collect those and wear all of them, instead of being essentially limited to one (and maybe an off-colour of the others - or not), then that would be pretty cool.

Ya I’m fine with them getting rid of tier sets as along as there’s just as much art a tier set will be useless after a tier or two but trasmog is timeless.

[Twilight Cultist]

and? this does not cause more slots being locked

I'm confused. My point was that they are opening up slots, not locking more.

[Onikaroshi]

From the front page:

Options from these sets will be rolled into how the Azerite system works for more customization in enhancing spells and abilities.

If they're not raid exclusive it doesn't make a damn bit of difference, and what, first it was talents are replacing legendaries now they're replacing set too? Make up your damn mind blizz.

I just want them to say, yes, we're taking something away from raiders but here's this is return. If they take and don't return M+ will be more lucrative.