No Flying in 8.0 Confirmed

[cuafpr]

True. Safe sky makes no sense. I mean we are in game full of wizards, demons, dragons, beasts, horrible nightmare creatures and so on, yet when we are in the sky nothing is of danger to us. Flying is really in a terrible spot right now.

yep, i dont want to be used to skip past everything i want it part of my game play, heck they have tech in the game now to push and pull players around... i would wager that could be used to make some passes / valleys so windy you would get pushed around on a flying mount, making ground mounts there more appealing/faster less you wanted to explore the tops of the peaks for fun.

[Shiekyerbooty]

Until they add in mounted combat, so we can realistically fight in the air, I don't expect "design the game around the flying mounts" to happen.

I meant that the devs rely too heavily on rat mazes and tell us it is more compelling.... surely they're clever enough to create compellling content while having flying available at max level. I mean, it worked in WotLK enough to compel 12 million subs

[SirCowdog]

Sorry, don't notice posts when they're posted a few seconds before mine are.

Seems like a bit of a reach to say they disregarded all feedback on it, just because people a small minority don't like being told no.

They are the content creators, people have faith that they'll do the right thing, and they do after they've learned from their mistakes. Flying is just...not one of them.

Sorry, it wasn't a small minority. Even Blizzard themselves said back before the launch of WoD that the playerbase AND their own people were 50/50 on the subject. And then after the initial launch hype wore off, the forums and youtube/streaming channels were pretty full with "It was ok for awhile, but now lets get flying back. Followed by Blizzard's complete reversal of "No flying ever again".

Everything I've seen since I involved myself in the discussion during WoD beta leads me to believe that the vast majority of people like and want flight. The only real question is what form it takes. Some people like Pathfinder, other people want a gold purchase the second they hit level cap, and still others(myself included) want flying to be given a real overhaul.

But the consistent message is that people want flying. They like the idea of an unlock, and having to earn it, and for flight to be meaningful instead of just an afterthought. It seems to me that the vocal minority are more likely the haters who can't stand the idea of flight, or the sheep who only know how to repeat what Blizzard says in blue.

As for the content creators angle. I don't believe it for a second. I think they're being dictated to by Hazzicostas and/or his bosses to do everything in their power to stretch content and bump up those profit margins. The individual devs likely want to create great works of wonder, and I like that about Blizzard. But I also fully recognize that Activision-Blizzard, the corporation, are no different than any other corporation. All I have to do to confirm that is look at things like the patent on the scumbag matchmaking system to promote sales of loot boxes, and their tax-evasion practices. And including flying in any meaningful way in the world design is counter-productive to their goals. It has nothing to do with "the right thing".

[Deleted]

I absolutely don't care about next expansion flying or not. Though I sincerely don't understand why ppl would play exclusively a few classes or want to do the same thing several times, I suppose the game wants them to play longer so they keep subscribing. Or whatever is the reason...

But please, make the older content flyable without going the heavy grind ! What's the point of wasting 15 hours just so it can make leveling a little quicker ; potentiel new players don't want to play a game that punishes them just because they weren't playing before. I currently came back in Legion since a friend of mine wanted to test it out. Leveling 1 single time has compeltely disgusted him from doing it any more and once he'll be bored of his class, he will simply unsubscribe... Because the game is way too much about repetitive tasks.

[SirCowdog]

I just noticed your signature and thought I'd remind you that I'm not against flying in general, I just don't think it's a big of a deal having to be on the ground for under a year/to have to earn it. Wasn't sure if I said that previously.

My sig is for the sheep. Talking with people who have actually formed their own opinions based on experience, and can have an intelligent discussion about it without resorting to personal attacks have nothing to worry about. The sig used to be something more intellectual, but people kept misunderstanding it, and I got sick of explaining. So I dumbed it down. :/

Sorry but it sure seems like it was. Without some proof I don't have much to go on besides my actual personal experience. Whenever I ask about it all I get is "Oh they just don't say anything anymore" or "They all quit because Blizzard doesn't use their ideas despite being paying customers". (I'm not referring this to you, fyi)

I've been part of the discussion for a long time. I've seen many different aspects of it. I've seen the opponents of the No-Flying design slowly diminish as Blizzard stonewalls. We thought we'd made it clear, and that blizzard had seen reason after they reversed the "No flying ever again" decision at the end of WoD. But when Legion went with the Pathfinder unlock, but slapped an 8 month timegate on it....well...it sent a pretty clear message that Blizzard doesn't give a flying dogshit what players want(in regards to flight, anyway), and only wanted to use it to stretch out the time played/subbed. Then they did the whole Argus thing.

The more and more people see how flying is treated, the less the cared to keep fighting for it. I suspect that the lack of caring you tend to see is a result of that.

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I absolutely don't care about next expansion flying or not. Though I sincerely don't understand why ppl would play exclusively a few classes or want to do the same thing several times, I suppose the game wants them to play longer so they keep subscribing. Or whatever is the reason...

But please, make the older content flyable without going the heavy grind ! What's the point of wasting 15 hours just so it can make leveling a little quicker ; potentiel new players don't want to play a game that punishes them just because they weren't playing before. I currently came back in Legion since a friend of mine wanted to test it out. Leveling 1 single time has compeltely disgusted him from doing it any more and once he'll be bored of his class, he will simply unsubscribe... Because the game is way too much about repetitive tasks.

It's done that way to encourage you to buy a character boost.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I meant that the devs rely too heavily on rat mazes and tell us it is more compelling.... surely they're clever enough to create compellling content while having flying available at max level. I mean, it worked in WotLK enough to compel 12 million subs

Only two zones in WotLK assumed you would have flying, and that's not the reason there were 12 million subs.

[cuafpr]

We have had unsafe sky in TBC. Kaliri owls would aggro from an impossible distance and then proceed to dismount you midair. The cannons would kill you the second you stopped flying straight away from them. Flying over an enemy town meant getting gryphons and wyvern on you after a few seconds. It was glorious but people whined incessantly about it.

i forgot about the owls!!! Sure they were annoying but you learned to get around them. Still i'd rather listen to those rants and be able to freely fly and use my mounts vs my mounts forgetting how to fly.

[In Ogres We Trust]

I always read through these threads just to see the insanity. There was only ever one good reason for removing flying and it's that it leads to longer subscription times because it's slows players down. That garbage about it being more fun to run and "experience the content" is the biggest load of narcissistic crap I've ever heard. I mean, imagine the balls it takes for developers who looked at the players zooming past their meticulously crafted landscapes and decided the solution was not to get better at their job but to complain to their boss until he/she agreed to force players into checking it out. Not to mention the Jedi mind trick Blizzard managed to pull off when they convinced the players to see the "compromise" of a gated achievement as a fair middle ground which gives them the "opportunity to earn" flying, lol. The bottom line is Blizzard decided to check and see how addicted their player base was and it turns out the addiction was strong. The players who protested and claimed to be ready to cancel their membership were all talk and no cancellation. Seriously, it's a little pathetic but the players who actually bought into the BS and parrot it out is even more pathetic. This could be the gaming version of Stockholm Syndrome.

Well, to be fair, it slows down the player, forces them to interact with the world as designed, increases the length of the subscription - and by extension, increases their gross profits, allows for the implementation of 2D design over 3D design - and by extension, increases their gross profits, and above all else, it allows for a faster, production schedule - which, in turn, increases their profits via box sales.

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I absolutely don't care about next expansion flying or not. Though I sincerely don't understand why ppl would play exclusively a few classes or want to do the same thing several times, I suppose the game wants them to play longer so they keep subscribing. Or whatever is the reason...

But please, make the older content flyable without going the heavy grind ! What's the point of wasting 15 hours just so it can make leveling a little quicker ; potentiel new players don't want to play a game that punishes them just because they weren't playing before. I currently came back in Legion since a friend of mine wanted to test it out. Leveling 1 single time has compeltely disgusted him from doing it any more and once he'll be bored of his class, he will simply unsubscribe... Because the game is way too much about repetitive tasks.

Personally, I would like account-wide reputation for older content, e.g. a compromise would be account-wide reputation that's one to two expansions past the current expansion.

[Shiekyerbooty]

Only two zones in WotLK assumed you would have flying, and that's not the reason there were 12 million subs.

If you say flying at max level wasn't the reason there were 12 million subs, then we kind of agree...... they can easily create more compelling content while having flying available at max level..... Wrath proved this

[Deleted]

Sorry but it sure seems like it was. Without some proof I don't have much to go on besides my actual personal experience. Whenever I ask about it all I get is "Oh they just don't say anything anymore" or "They all quit because Blizzard doesn't use their ideas despite being paying customers". (I'm not referring this to you, fyi)

Well, i doubt that you personally know more than 0.000002% of the whole playerbase and even less from all account created (100 mio. in 2014, probably more now).
And even though the official forums don't represent the majority (only 15% off all players max are on the official forums according to Blue) it is surely interessting to see that threads about the "flight debacle" have been the second most threads in which people posted, read and liked/disliked - directly following the "real ID debacle". Flight doesn't have to be an issue for peoples personal surroundings. Especially since people tend to surround themselves with people having the same mindset. Meaning that if you love flying, possibilities are high that your personal surroundings is filled with the same type of persons. Same for if you on the opposite side.

As for Blizzard being scummy, and people being sheep/haters etc, I don't know what to say. Don't let not getting what you want ruin the game for you.

Well i wouldn't say scummy, but the incident that led to the pathfinder approach wasn't exactly "openly communicated". They actually seemed to be trying to keep a low profile on that one in order to get this change through silently. They just didn't expect to get that much attention.
If not getting what someone wants (and in case of flight always had for most of the games lifespan) would ruin their fun, i guess most people won't complain. They would think if that is enough of a disturbance to cancel their sub, which in case of flight probably enough people did. Simply because Blizzard changed their "final stance" within 2 weeks to "maybe we can still give you flight but with another way of getting it".

I just noticed your signature and thought I'd remind you that I'm not against flying in general, I just don't think it's a big of a deal having to be on the ground for under a year/to have to earn it. Wasn't sure if I said that previously.

If you are not against flight, i would like to know why is it needed to delay getting flight by such a long time? If the achievement takes much effort and much time it is ok for me, but waiting just because they want us to see grounded doesn't work for me. I would draw my personal line at: "they can wait with activating flight via achievement with the first patch IF it comes within a month or two max." Flight is an integral part of my enjoyment. The people i know from playing the game are also playing other games with me if WOW isn't fun anymore. But that is no threat at all. I just play (and pay) as long as it is fun for me, and maybe take a look at the game later again (plus resubbing).

[azurrei]

This is not news or surprising...let's just hope they clear the roads, remove all the *** unnecessary tree roots everywhere like Legion zones had, and bring back anti daze consumable (or remove that useless game mechanic entirely.) I fully expect flying to be available sooner than in Legion or WoD, though.

Let's be real here as well - Anyone else notice a pattern? Every expansion the new land mass to explore is getting smaller and smaller - of course they don't want flying at the start they don't want people to realize that they are giving us a backyard to play in instead of a national park...

[Deleted]

To be fair the same could be said for you. Considering it's always been a debate, we can't be sure about the actual statistics of what's even going on in those flight threads. Like this, a lot of people are torn. But as you said, 15% use the forums, so it's not really anything to go by. Most people don't care enough to hop on the forums and voice their opinions on anything surrounding the game.

I never said i know more people than those few. But i also never use them to back up an argument since i know there is a difference between "what i personally see" and "the overall population". And again.... i don't say a lot of people have been for flight or in favor of flight. I just say that it seem obvious that ENOUGH people had a big enough impact on that matter to make Blizzard change their stance.

Eh I really don't think that's how life works. People are different, they have different opinions. Opposites attract and what not. Doesn't mean you can't be friends =)

Life... maybe not. But this is a game. And activity that you do because you want not you have too. And i also say "chances are high" not "it always is that way 100%". Sure people have different opinions in a WoW guild. But i would be very surprised if someone joins a raiding guild when he has no interest in raiding. There is some nice literature about how people chose their friends without knowing what and why they are doing it (non conscious decision). Mostly we decide which people we like if we find more similarities than opposites. But hey... What do those psychologists now ;-) It is all just theory

Or they decided to listen to some of this feedback? Or just decided against it? Why must it always be about sub numbers? You are basing this on nothing to act like flying impacts the game more than it actually does.

Lets see.... maybe because people that always "whine" but still keep on playing have NO impact on the game, the games popularity, and most important the games revenue. While people that quit actually cost them money. Would you listen to a few (forum, 15%) that give feedback or whine without let actions follow their words or would you react to occasions that actually effect your finacials? Before you ask, try to think as a business man/woman.
I am sure Blizzard is always on that side to make as many people happy as possible. Positive side effect: more people liking and playing their game the more money they make.

I just think it's great not having flight. World PvP has always been something nice in the world, but with flying it's just ruined. Perhaps they could have restricted flight in some of the PvP places in Legion. But I'm just going on what we were given.

Very subjective. I had the best W-PvP in Wrath and BC. In both xpacs you had flight right after hitting max levels which actually added more possibilities to PvP.
Besides... that "flight ruins World PvP" argument has always been invalid since there have been other features messing with W-PvP way more than flight could ever possibly do. PLUS for BfA that argument doesn't really count since we have the PvP slider which lets you choose if you want to participate in W-PvP or not regardless of the server you chose to play on.

It's absolutely fine if you like flying, I like certain aspects of the game too, but none I'd be willing to quit over. I have nothing against it if they decide to throw it in at launch, I just, personally, prefer it being delayed so that others and myself get to experience ground life, y'know? Just a preference for me, which is hard to avoid and to keep up with others if you choose not to use it. It becomes a convenience once you're used to it all.

I always makes me think..... if you want to "enjoy" ground life, why don't you just stay on the ground? Flight being more effective is out of the window since farm nodes are personal and special NPCs and monsters are tagable by everyone. So in the end it actually is a self control issue. It is not like you would lose a week of progress for every hour in game you do not chose to fly.

So you like to be forced, that is ok for me. I don't, but i don't have a problem to unsub if certain things are in the game the impact my enjoyment of the game.
And to be perfectly clear: i even take longer to get to places on my flying mount than i would on my ground mount when i have time on my hand. Simply because on the ground i just want this slow riding to be over quick, while flying i enjoy taking detours. You know: looking around, discovering places i have not seen from the ground because i focused on getting though mobs and stuff, AND seeing more of the beautiful art from every angle, way more than i would ever from the ground.

Well and if you have nothing you would quit the gamer over, why should they be listening to you? They get your money anyways, no matter if you like flight for ex or not. From me they don't get any money for being grounded, but they sure would like to have it. And yes, i confess i have been one of those persons that quit in WOD around the first patch with "no flight" being on top of all reasons i stated for my decisions to stop playing this game.

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This is not news or surprising...let's just hope they clear the roads, remove all the *** unnecessary tree roots everywhere like Legion zones had, and bring back anti daze consumable (or remove that useless game mechanic entirely.) I fully expect flying to be available sooner than in Legion or WoD, though.

Let's be real here as well - Anyone else notice a pattern? Every expansion the new land mass to explore is getting smaller and smaller - of course they don't want flying at the start they don't want people to realize that they are giving us a backyard to play in instead of a national park...

Yes i noticed that as well.... i miss the huge plains of Wrath :-(

[Queen of Hamsters]

Duh.

Pathfinder is the model going forward, but by all means come back to bitch about it all the same when the launch content is old and flying becomes available.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

...it sent a pretty clear message that Blizzard doesn't give a flying dogshit what players want(in regards to flight, anyway)

What some players want. If you have any intention of being fair and having an intelligent conversation, you have to accept that some people just honestly disagree with you. We can have an honest disagreement without either of us being a bad person. I've yet to see a forum thread where everyone agreed on this subject.

[rainbow81]

I just have to throw this out there at this point... there are so many yes/no flying threads. That it reminds me of a long ago started debate with a certain voice actor for a certain character that's ''about to make a return''... horde vs alliance, who does Blizzard like more?

[Altrec]

Hey, if Blizzard wants to continue pissing people off and having to hide their numbers because they don't look good anymore due to bad choices again and again so be it. I mean if they are having to bring back Vanilla after years of saying they couldn't or wouldn't do it we are now supposed to believe their current direction isn't highly questionable? Kind of sad really.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Hey, if Blizzard wants to continue pissing people off and having to hide their numbers because they don't look good anymore due to bad choices again and again so be it. I mean if they are having to bring back Vanilla after years of saying they couldn't or wouldn't do it we are now supposed to believe their current direction isn't highly questionable? Kind of sad really.

If Blizz really believed that easier/faster access to flying was in the best interest (long term) of their subscription numbers, they would do it. They obviously don't believe this.

[Maudib]

It truly doesn't matter anymore. I won't be playing BfA at all. I'll play Classic and enjoy not flying... but when they follow it up with BC... I'll be all over that!

Meantime, enjoy BfA.

[Altrec]

If Blizz really believed that easier/faster access to flying was in the best interest (long term) of their subscription numbers, they would do it. They obviously don't believe this.

I'm not sure they care what is in the best interest of the game anymore hence vanilla servers. One of the reasons in the past they didn't want to do vanilla servers was because it would pull focus, resources, and players away from the main game. Evidently something has changed since they don't seem to care about that now. My guess since we can't see the numbers anymore is things are not looking so good comparatively speaking so they are hedging their bets, but that is all just speculation.

[Deleted]

We just don't know what did change their mind in the end though is my point, I know you want to believe it was what you're saying but it could be something else entirely, it's not a fact unless they've said that and I'm missing it

Well sure. We don't know. But on the other hand: people saying "mass cancelations are not the reason for this change" are also wrong if you want to see it that way. There is simply no evidence to back claiming that up. And logically speaking: there are more hints and logical reasons to believe that economical changes had infulenced that change than not.
Would you really think that a few comments would weight more than people actually quitting? I would bet a good amount of money, that if people would have just whiend but stayed subbed, Blizzard would have taken flight out of every future content from WoD onward. 100% sure.
Whiners on the forum NEVER made a change.... simply because they are small minority, and mostly keep paying even if they don't like a change. Whiners don't quit, and Quitters don't whine <= internet law.

I dunno this is still kind of irrelevant. I've made tons of friends from all different aspects of the game. PvE, PvP, Pet battlers, transmoggers. In the end we're all people.

Subjectively speaking again. I have made tons of friends too in different parts of the games.... well except the pokemon kids pet battle area. :-D just joking.

Then that kind of makes your point about flying irrelevant though? If flying was such a huge thing, surely they would have not done things the way they are continuing to to, since it would make less money?

And NOTHING hints to "no flying in 8.0" either. Yes pathfinder is coming to unlock flying, BUT they stated in an interview that they looked at feedback and tweak that method. Can also mean it won't be dragged out that long. They could but why would. By the way... cancel your sub is also giving feedback.

I still think one of the major points on why world PvP is basically non existent these days is because of flying. People have grown tired and just fly away. We're too passive now, y'know? I do think in BFA it will be much better, so we'll see how it plays out. It will deffo promote it more so it should be good.

Well i never got this feeling that i need to pin someone down in W-PvP. Whats the point of beating someone again and again and again with no chance of getting away? Sorry not my cup of tea since i don't draw enjoyment of making someone else feel miserable. If they fly away, they have lost the fight and retreat. Cool with me.
By the way.... it is just your opinion, not a fact that flight is the reason for less W-PvP. There are tons of content that interfere way more with W-PvP. All being instanced content that draw the people away from the open world. At least on your dragon your are part of the open world. No really, if you feel that way it is your thing. To me it is not even close to that. But also.... just my opinion.

A lot of people would say it's to keep up with everyone. If you have flying available and are using a ground mount it's silly. You're wasting so much time that others don't. Some people like that but personally I don't unless yeah, I'm forced. But I like being on ground because it makes the world feel alive.

Like i say: lack of self control. And it is NOT like you are miles behind each day just because you ride on the ground. That is simply not true.
And the immersion argument is a very subjective thing. To me the world feels more alive when i'm out in the world, there a lowie on his horse and me always look in ALL directions for a possible attack, even from above. I don't like being forced and like to enjoy the game the way i like. Strange.... to me it looks like it is effecting you when OTHERS get to be on the drake and like to soar thru the air, but it doesn't add or takes from my enjoyment of the game if you want to stay on the ground or lift off into the skies.

Personally I've only ever "quit" during big content droughts. Mainly due to lack of interest

And you have every right to do so.

Also; I'm really not trying to be snarky, I'm just tired so I'm sorry if I come across that way haha

Not snarky. Actually you're one of the more pleasant "no-flight" people to discuss with.

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If Blizz really believed that easier/faster access to flying was in the best interest (long term) of their subscription numbers, they would do it. They obviously don't believe this.

So where is the evidence that Blizzard will bring BfA pathfinder with the same time schedule like they did with Legion Pathfinder?
So we can't really discuss something that didn't happen. Like the "no flight in 8.0 confirmed" title..... since nothing is confirmed yet. ;-)