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  1. #141
    Raiding is not the only endgame in a good MMO. It has taken blizzard a very long time to realize this but they are finally figuring it out. More things to do besides raiding is a GOOD thing, not bad.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookysheep View Post
    Raiding is not the only endgame in a good MMO. It has taken blizzard a very long time to realize this but they are finally figuring it out. More things to do besides raiding is a GOOD thing, not bad.
    Except when it could lean toward lower participation in the only end game you like.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Except when it could lean toward lower participation in the only end game you like.

    At that point it might be time to find a new MMO. Blizzard should not waste all their resources just on raiding when too many players like things other than raiding.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookysheep View Post
    At that point it might be time to find a new MMO. Blizzard should not waste all their resources just on raiding when too many players like things other than raiding.
    "Give up this MMO because X when you've played it for 13 years, enjoy it" and on top of that, what MMO? No other MMO does raiding as good as wow lol, wow is THE raiding MMO

    I will continue to give my opinion and fight for what I enjoy in the game.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by traumabrew View Post
    With the announcement of eliminating tier sets, it feels like Blizzard wants to kill off raiding. I know what you are thinking, another player screaming "the sky is falling". But, with BfA and other changes from Legion, it seems Blizzard is steering the game to a more casual, open world sandbox and away from a structured game style, which is what raiding is.

    Loot and gear is raining down all over the game. You can even obtain better gear from non raiding content as compared to raid drops. I am a heroic raider but my character probably about 50% non raid gear equipped. These pieces are from my mythic weekly caches, bonus week caches, emissary quests and relinquished gear from the Argus vendor. Heck, if you get lucky enough you can even top mythic level gear from some sources. Really, the only gear that is obtainable only from raiding is tier gear.

    Ion said they are not getting rid of titanforging and other mechanics to increase item level from drops. This mechanic plus all the new sources for gear that is equal to or better than raid gear and eliminating tier sets, tells you where they want to take this game.

    Raiding is about testing yourself against some of the toughest content in the game. Raiding is what brings people back week after week in order to progress and finally kill the end boss. But loot and gear was the carrot on the stick. It kept you coming back. And the satisfaction of finally downing that boss your team has struggled with is the reason we raid. But getting that epic tier piece, weapon, trinket, etc was the icing on the cake. Tier sets are unique to raiding. If you look at a player and see they are item level 930 but have no tier you can tell they dont raid. But if you look at a player with item level 930 and you see heroic or even mythic tier gear, you know they have beaten some of the hardest content in the game.
    You obviously skipped some important parts. Aszerite gear will be increased in ilvl depending on the difficulty it dropped and in a logic manner if u have head + shoulders + cloak already locked imagine trying to go for a 4-set... Not to mention that you can inspect that player with an addon called quickarmory and you can check his/her progress there. Aditionally it should decrease the moaning over items that has happened since forever as we will probably have more sources for gear similar to Legion.

    Imo it's a good change, i have many 945+ armor sitting around increasing my no1cares-ilvl while i feel obliged to go with 2 or 4-set.
    Last edited by Cannibalus; 2017-11-16 at 12:31 AM.

  6. #146
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    You can raid for both, but removing incentive to raid means less people feel the need to raid, which means less raid teams overall.

    Honestly they can remove tier, who gives a crap about tier as a whole, but they need to add raid specific azerite traits that help raids and m+ azerite traits that help M+. Doing raids gets you better gear to do raids, doing M+ gets you better gear to do M+. Incentivize both without one stepping on the other.
    This x1000, i always wished they could allow you to gear to specific content to be the best at it, instead of High raiding being the best at every other piece of content in the game.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by traumabrew View Post
    But, with BfA and other changes from Legion, it seems Blizzard is steering the game to a more casual, open world sandbox and away from a structured game style, which is what raiding is.
    Yes, but not everyone raids. Actually, the number of people who actually raids is low relative to the number of players. Until LFR and the various changes, it was a minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by traumabrew View Post
    Raiding is about testing yourself against some of the toughest content in the game. Raiding is what brings people back week after week in order to progress and finally kill the end boss. But loot and gear was the carrot on the stick.
    So, in the end, it was about the loot. If people are raiding less because loot is now available via different means, it suggest people were not that interested in raiding in the first place.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    "Give up this MMO because X when you've played it for 13 years, enjoy it" and on top of that, what MMO? No other MMO does raiding as good as wow lol, wow is THE raiding MMO

    I will continue to give my opinion and fight for what I enjoy in the game.
    I'll never understand players who think taking away options for other players to enjoy is a healthy thing for the game.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Deithy View Post
    Plot twist - the 3 slots affected by Heart of Azeroth will drop only from Raid instances
    This. Since the bonus form the Heart was confirmed at Blizzcon to be item specific, please expect your set bonuses to be baked into these gear slots now. You just dont need multiple items of a "set" to activate them now.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Yes, but not everyone raids. Actually, the number of people who actually raids is low relative to the number of players. Until LFR and the various changes, it was a minority.



    So, in the end, it was about the loot. If people are raiding less because loot is now available via different means, it suggest people were not that interested in raiding in the first place.
    This 1000%. What incentive do you need other than "it's fun to do"?
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  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    "Give up this MMO because X when you've played it for 13 years, enjoy it" and on top of that, what MMO? No other MMO does raiding as good as wow lol, wow is THE raiding MMO

    I will continue to give my opinion and fight for what I enjoy in the game.
    Raiders constantly deride LFR as "not real raiding" so if this is true then raiders are a small minority of the players. Blizzard needs to put resources into what the majority want because the majority are paying the bills.

  12. #152
    Mechagnome Lenin's Avatar
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    They are not removing tiers, they are removig tier bonuses which will be replaced by 3slot Azerite traits, who are affected by difficulty on which you obtain those items.
    I swear, some people will bitch about everything.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookysheep View Post
    Raiders constantly deride LFR as "not real raiding" so if this is true then raiders are a small minority of the players. Blizzard needs to put resources into what the majority want because the majority are paying the bills.
    Meh we are getting vanilla back and with any luck years from now tbc. We will go live there... just leave us be.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookysheep View Post
    Raiders constantly deride LFR as "not real raiding" so if this is true then raiders are a small minority of the players. Blizzard needs to put resources into what the majority want because the majority are paying the bills.
    I do not deride LFR, don't lump everyone together. I support anything that allows us to continue to have the best raids on the market.

  15. #155
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    WoW is not made for raiders only. Without us casual scrubs you wouldn't have current WoW.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorbus View Post
    WoW is not made for raiders only. Without us casual scrubs you wouldn't have current WoW.
    And no one said it was? Honestly I've been trying to give suggestions both here and on blizzard forums that would benefit everyone.

  17. #157
    No they're not. Believe it or not, they are smarter than us. They know what they are doing.

    Every change isn't a bad change.

    So many people on this forum looking for things to complain about or criticize blizz over.

  18. #158
    My guild says good. A lot of times the stats from tiers aren't great. It's retarded to farm titanforged pieces of old tier to keep the bonuses because the new ones suck or you want to combine two sets. Plus what if your two best legendary pieces lock you out of the full set?

    The day lootboxes are introduced into WoW is the day I leave the game for good. Moreso if they have the gall to keep the monthly subscription AND the box price.
    Oh they're not going to do that. Lootboxes that they already have in games don't give you any power and are all cosmetic and I think you should remember how amazingly well those helms sold (not really).

  19. #159
    It seems to be a push to simplify the game more.. I can't say I welcome it but it is how it is.

  20. #160
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    Blizzard has to race to keep up with the raiding community which has been doing pretty well on its own to minimize the number of people who participate in organized raiding.

    Casual open world play is the bread-and-butter for World of Warcraft at this point. Not the less-than 25% who never kill a boss in a guild group. I don't make judgments about players based on what they're wearing.
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