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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Felfaadaern Darkterror View Post

    Do you get the part of the lore where Suramar deserted their fellow elves during the War of the Ancients? Hid behind their shield while Tyrande, Malfurion, Illidan, and Ravencrest were desperately fighting for the fate of the planet.
    Elisande largely made that decision on behalf of Suramar, and after the Sundering they thought the rest of the world was a wasteland, so they never went outside. When she got exiled, Thalyssra realised the rest of the world had continued on without them, and she wanted to connect with it to help her people. Over the course of the Suramar campaign we help Nightfallen who want to stop Elisande, having grown tired of her and the elite, and want to rejoin the world. They're assisted by two main elven factions; one who say "hey, we understand what you're going through with addiction, we'll help in any way we can", and one whose leader says "you betrayed us in the war, you filthy ingrates, I'll help you because we need to stop Gul'dan, but you're as worthless as those other elves who are helping you out of sympathy as much as strategy".

    It doesn't matter that the Nightborne deserted the war, particularly since at the time Tyrande and the others were rebels: the Nightfallen acknowledge their error and largely want to make up for it, and Tyrande is just shutting them down and acting like it's a distasteful chore that she has to help them. It doesn't make the Nightfallen much indebted to her, especially when another group of elves is being much kinder and respectful toward them, claiming to have gone through a similar problem in recent years.

    If you've got a criminal who sincerely regrets their past actions and wants to atone asking for help, and one of the people who feels obligated to help them complains about it and keeps reminding them how terrible they are, who do you think they are going to appreciate more? If someone wants to change, you may be angry or hate them, but at least they want to change; you shouldn't spit on them and deny them any more help than the bare minimum. It only makes them reconsider trying to make amends.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyux View Post
    For those saying Tyrande was rude, just curious because I did the quests ages ago: when exactly was that? When she's standing outside Suramar with the army?
    Yeah, mostly during Suramar siege quests.

    She really didn't like being there, she didn't want to deal w/ those "addicts", but she had to because Legion and stuff. She also treated Nightborne as cannon fodder in some quests, like you were helping them not because you wanted to save them, but because it meant that "saved" and armoured Nightborne could do all the fighting themselves w/o Nelven involvement.

  3. #43
    Allied races are pure fan-base move from Blizz. I don't expect anything reliable in terms of lore from them.

  4. #44
    The Lightbringer Dalheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    Elisande largely made that decision on behalf of Suramar, and after the Sundering they thought the rest of the world was a wasteland, so they never went outside. When she got exiled, Thalyssra realised the rest of the world had continued on without them, and she wanted to connect with it to help her people. Over the course of the Suramar campaign we help Nightfallen who want to stop Elisande, having grown tired of her and the elite, and want to rejoin the world. They're assisted by two main elven factions; one who say "hey, we understand what you're going through with addiction, we'll help in any way we can", and one whose leader says "you betrayed us in the war, you filthy ingrates, I'll help you because we need to stop Gul'dan, but you're as worthless as those other elves who are helping you out of sympathy as much as strategy".

    It doesn't matter that the Nightborne deserted the war, particularly since at the time Tyrande and the others were rebels: the Nightfallen acknowledge their error and largely want to make up for it, and Tyrande is just shutting them down and acting like it's a distasteful chore that she has to help them. It doesn't make the Nightfallen much indebted to her, especially when another group of elves is being much kinder and respectful toward them, claiming to have gone through a similar problem in recent years.

    If you've got a criminal who sincerely regrets their past actions and wants to atone asking for help, and one of the people who feels obligated to help them complains about it and keeps reminding them how terrible they are, who do you think they are going to appreciate more? If someone wants to change, you may be angry or hate them, but at least they want to change; you shouldn't spit on them and deny them any more help than the bare minimum. It only makes them reconsider trying to make amends.
    Exactly this. Perfectly written.
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  5. #45
    Yeah, sucks the Allied races have to ignore past friendship like that. Suramar's allegiance could've been handled that just a portion of it allies with the Horde, but then again, that would be a splitting element for a nation that's just gone through civil war and needs unity now more than ever. Admittedly, as Horde I'm overjoyed we're getting Thalyssra, Valtrois and Oculeth to side with us.

    If anything, one can agree the Nightborne feel more kinship with blood elves, what with all the addiction problems and losing their former source of power. Tyrande was bit of a bitch like always, while Liadrin was empathetic enough to almost make me like her. She and Silgryn seemed to be friendly with each other in the Vindicaar, so one can wager they're the main instigators in forming the alliance.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felfaadaern Darkterror View Post
    I'm not rushing to judgment yet. Blizz still has several months to demonstrate how much thought they are giving to these questions.
    The Allied races start at level 20, that alone says that Blizzard how much Blizzard cares about the Allied Race story. Also there is the fact that Dark Iron Dwarves are already in the Alliance, and depending on what we hear about Void Elves they may be too.

    Beyond that for your specific situation it's actually impossible to rectify. You're character might be the savior of the entire race due to your questing experience but since it was hit with the player object vacuum it's actually impossible to know who (and if) did it.


    That being said I do have to send a non-specific dig here, gameplay > lore is something that Blizzard says but actually isn't true. If that was their goal they'd follow in the footsteps of RPGs and make all the player's actions canon at least to them, but that's simply not the case in WoW. You can go around killing faction leaders left and right and they respawn and it's never mentioned in the lore. In fact the two are completely separate with the lore being written in an attempt to justify the gameplay decisions Blizzard's design team makes. Essentially they tell two parallel histories, one which is about a single super human that has defeated every foe imaginable and another that has anonymous heroes that keep on defeating threats but for some reason don't show up anywhere in history.

  7. #47
    Maybe it was canonically a Horde character who helped the Nightfallen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderaan View Post
    All it takes is an incel at the wrong place wrong time and we won't even know what hit us.

  8. #48
    Another reason to not care about the lore. Collect your AP, do your M+, enjoy your pretty elves, just don't think about it.

    Not even the classes available to them don't make sense. Nighborne, moosecows, even the emo elves can be monks, but not the Lightforged with their long history of draenei monk orders? Make up a story about that.

    I suppose we will pretend this thing called Vindicaar with an army of light-powered exoskeletons that can single-handedly annihilate legion fleets don't exist either once the LF join the Alliance and we will fight with swords and stone-throwing catapults.

    Quote Originally Posted by OIS View Post
    Maybe it was canonically a Horde character who helped the Nightfallen.
    Yeah and it was also Horde who saved Highmountain, but then it was Alliance who saved whole Azeroth by going to Argus and ending the Legion. Alliance > Horde once again.

  9. #49
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    They certainly do not forget what you did for them. But there is a reason as to why they join the Horde just as a reason as to why the other Races join the Alliance. If you do the quests as either Horde or Alliance, the Nightborne were treated much nicer by Liadrin than Tyrande did and first impressions are everything for a lot of people. The Nightborne also had really good relations to the Blood Elves as they too heavily relied on a well and served demons for a short period. This'll go in hand with the other races too as the Lightforge Draenei want to aid their siblings and the Highmountain Tauren are vastly similar in that regard, Baine will probably just treat the Highmountain extremely well - but again missing links and pieces that completes those bridges.

    It feels weird for me, as I played Horde and helped out the Lightforge Draenei against the Legion but as soon as they'll see me in BfA I am one of their foes. But at the same time I understand.

    Honestly it does add up, the missing piece is the push for why the Nightborne join the Horde and not remain neutral. Which we'll get with the questlines for Highmountain, Nightborne, Void Elves, Lightforge Draenei, Dark Irons, and Zandalari and other Allied Races in the future.

    "Only Beasts are above deceit" - Rexxar

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Felixon View Post
    Well,gameplay wise,ofc any Alliance player can say "BUT I SAVED THOSE JUNKIES".But when you compare the nightborne to the kaldorei and the blood elves,they are like night and day.In general,the nightborne are the same as the highborne,but their difference is that they have been "preserved" under the dome for years.The same aristocratic way of life and love or magic.The kaldorei are all about the nature,preserving the wilds and forests,while the blood elves have never turned their back to their heritage - remember,that the blood very originally the exiled highborne. It's normal,that the nightborne have more in common with the blood elves,than with kaldorei,but keep in mind,that a small group of the original highborne rejoined their kind in Darnassus.
    But Blizzard had no qualms about giving the Night Elves mages from the Highborne of Eldre'thalas. In short, the common argument against the Nightborne joining the Alliance is... well... nonsensical claptrap. I would have more respect for you - as well as for anyone else - if you would just come out and state that it's for "faction balance" and "faction balance" alone, because in terms of the lore, the race should either be a) neutral or b) a part of the Night Elven society.

  11. #51
    wait for the story it could just be some nightborne that join the horde and some stay neutral
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  12. #52
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    They read one of "MAKE HIGH ELVES PLAYABLE ON ALLIANCE PLZZZZZZZZZZ" thread and realised that horde is far more suitable faction for them.

  13. #53
    Herald of the Titans Graden's Avatar
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    Horde players will feel the same about Turalyon, Alleria and the Army of Light. But I get what you mean; we spent a lot more time in Highmountain and Suramar, especially the latter which was a very special experience for players of both factions.

    Regarding Tyrande, I lost all respect when in a quest she said something like ''let the shal'dorei rebels and the sin'dorei do the dirty work, so more of our soldiers will live".

  14. #54
    If it was up to me I would kick them out, you can have them. I hate that zone so much and their people. Bunch of useless junkies that we had to do everything for, win back their city, save their tree, cure their people, and so on... An illusion?! What are you hiding! ..

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemoBytom View Post
    In Warcraft 3 Orcs and Humans became allies, helped eachother.. Yet here we are..
    Warcraft universe is very keen on breaking alliances and dividing factions...
    Well, the lore was crafted to suit the faction divide coming in WoW. There literary like 3 missions in wc3 that were release just before wow, that sets up the factions. Before that there were not much support for the division.

    I think its more accurate to say that the warcraft universe is keen on producing threats that one needs to work together to counter. But because of how the game is made, there always needs to be some reason for the divide to still exist, however ridiculous the reason might be.

    The faction divide is arbitrary, made for gameplay reasons and most likely hurts the game in the long term. However, it is what it is and cant be changed now. It was probably very good for the game in short term when the game was released.

  16. #56
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graden View Post
    Horde players will feel the same about Turalyon, Alleria and the Army of Light. But I get what you mean; we spent a lot more time in Highmountain and Suramar, especially the latter which was a very special experience for players of both factions.

    Regarding Tyrande, I lost all respect when in a quest she said something like ''let the shal'dorei rebels and the sin'dorei do the dirty work, so more of our soldiers will live".
    To be fair, being cowardly and using others is pretty much what her character is all about.

  17. #57
    You didn't save Suramar on behalf of the Alliance. You did it on your own prerogative as leader of your class order.

  18. #58
    Deleted
    It'll be explained! Wait for beta.

    Ethier way they have far more in common with the horde. Clear parrelles with BE aswell as the forced servitude to the Legion like orcs, there are some differences admittedly.

    While the Allaince are far more judgemental between the factions. We've seen examples of humans look down at other races and Tyrande was judgmental to them in 7.1.

    One faction they have alot in common with and the other one the leadership atleast have insulted and belittled you.

  19. #59
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Like when she sacrificed herself to save the Blood Elves from the scourge?
    It was more like "too dumb not to stand on the bridge you are trying to destroy" combined with "holy fuck i can't swim !".

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Yes they have much more in common with the Blood Elves but that doesn't mean they should become the enemy of the other. Tyrande may not trust them for what they did but she helped them to take back their city as much as Liadrin did. It's no less than betrayal if they suddenly become the Night Elves' enemies.

    But I agree with you. It will be explained in the next expansion, probably Blizz puts some Night Elves in Suramar, killing some Nightborne and make them join the Horde.
    I wouldn't call it a betyral. The Night Elves weren't just doing it just to help the Nightborne but to fight the Legion. It also depends on who helped them rebuild after they gained back control, that said we have no idea who' if anyone, helped them rebuild. So theres some questions to be answred there.

    that said I imagine it will just be NE attacking them for Reasons?...

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