Q&A - Demonology confirmed failed experiment

[Fenzha]

So in todays Q&A they pretty much said this and that we should expect significant changes going into the next expansion.

I hope this means the more prominent players of this spec get their voices heard with feedback leading up to Battle for Azeroth.

[Drakile]

So par for the course then, they always revamp Demo lets see what the new incarnation looks like

[ComputerNerd]

And I hope this isn't leading into more demands for meta back.
Meta was never associated with warlocks before its appearance in the demo spec.

Blizzard toyed with a fun mechanic they could not introduce to its established place.

[Deleted]

You can look back 11 months of forum posts and find something is terrible wrong with demonology warlocks.

What we need is long lasting empowerment. remove the tons of cds from out rotation.

[Tikishock]

Since they basically made WoW a version of Diablo anyways, why not just make Demonology more like the Diablo 3 Witch Doctor only without all the stupid cooldowns and empowerment and crap like that.

Step 1: Get rid of empowerment or make it a worthy 2-3 minute cooldown and not a maintenance buff. Just buff that damn pets already.

Step 2: Get rid of Doom or bake it in somewhere. It is beyond stupid and not needed.

Step 3: Just make the spec into a fricken zoo spec. Summon pets, sacrifice pets (for either offensive or defensive purposes), summon more pets to replace the old ones. Pets, pets, pets, PETS! Summon, sacrifice, explode, spawn more, overrun the enemy with tons of pets that deal small-to-moderate damage but with enough pets makes health bars melt away.

It's not exactly hard to make a competent build out of the class fantasy here.

[Maleific]

I don't really expect much from them on this after Legion, but a couple things i'd like to see are.

Mastery changed to a variation of the old demonic knowledge (which affects the player and their pets).

More options to shift damage back into the player (less pets more spell damage) and vice versa for the zoo lock lovers.

[Mammon]

And I hope this isn't leading into more demands for meta back.

Of course there will be people asking for Meta back. Just like you stubbornly say that Meta doesn't belong with Lock, people like me will stubbornly say that it does. Since this is a make believe world, both sides have their reasons and neither side can prove anything.

[FertsBlert]

Cool Demo gets another revamp... which it needs but my faith the they won't ultimately fuck the spec even harder is gone. I fully expect them to double down and give Demo even more ramp or an even more onerous maint buff... actually no I fully expect them to come up with a new and interesting way to completely destroy the spec because it's still the same character design team and they've done sooooooo fucking well so far haven't they.

[ComputerNerd]

Blizzard themselves said the following -

Demonology Warlock was not a fully successful experiment. The master of demon fantasy is great, but the execution wasn't right.

So a long way from a "failed experiment", but not a fully successful one.
And they said they liked the fantasy of it, just not the execution.

Ignoring half the statement does not "confirm" what you say it does.

Of course there will be people asking for Meta back. Just like you stubbornly say that Meta doesn't belong with Lock, people like me will stubbornly say that it does. Since this is a make believe world, both sides have their reasons and neither side can prove anything.

I at least provided some argument based on its origin, while you simply call it stubborn.

Take the Illidan encounter in the black temple.
Thats an example of where it was present on a demon hunter before it was present on player warlocks.
That appeared in Cataclysm.

[Netherspark]

That "The master of demon fantasy is great, but the execution wasn't right" quote does not fill me with confidence. All Blizzard will probably do is increase the duration of Demonic Empowerment. I'm also not on board with their interpretation of "class fantasy" here.

Demonology fantasy: Master Summoner of ferocious demons!
Reality: some imps..

[Maleific]

I'd rather have the Master of Demonic magic theme back.

Since it includes summoning/ empowerment (warlock/ demon synergy).

[Morth]

When they anounced demon locks will be a summoner spec I was excited but like they have said it wasn't well executed. I'd love the idea of demon warlocks being the support of their demons, I love the imps (but not the way they're summoned) and hate the dreadstalkers and the short duration all demons have.

They should take vanilla cinematic as an example of how a demonology warlock must work. A warlock that sends 2 powerful Infernals (or any other demon) to destroy everything, that would be awesome... not the crap shit of dreadstalkers.

The demon should take most of the damage that the warlock receives throught Soul Link and the warlock must focus on healing the demon.

[Kithelle]

Well at least it something...hope it will change for the better.

- - - Updated - - -

Since they basically made WoW a version of Diablo anyways, why not just make Demonology more like the Diablo 3 Witch Doctor only without all the stupid cooldowns and empowerment and crap like that.

Step 1: Get rid of empowerment or make it a worthy 2-3 minute cooldown and not a maintenance buff. Just buff that damn pets already.

Step 2: Get rid of Doom or bake it in somewhere. It is beyond stupid and not needed.

Step 3: Just make the spec into a fricken zoo spec. Summon pets, sacrifice pets (for either offensive or defensive purposes), summon more pets to replace the old ones. Pets, pets, pets, PETS! Summon, sacrifice, explode, spawn more, overrun the enemy with tons of pets that deal small-to-moderate damage but with enough pets makes health bars melt away.

It's not exactly hard to make a competent build out of the class fantasy here.

Just to add, GoSu needs a change...just a worthless talent for demo. Off the top of my head I know I'd love a second permanent demon...but would make the talent way OP without balance...maybe reduce the damage two two demons do so it's more comparable to the other two talents?

[Baconeggcheese]

The answer he gave made me a bit optimistic... or maybe hopeful? not just for demonology but in general.

Demo definitely needed another "rework", so I'm glad that's the actual word he used in relation to whats going to happen with that spec. The fact that that's even on the table is a good thing, I don't expect many other specs will see fundamental changes but maybe some pretty hefty overhauls would be good.

Eh, see how it goes anyway.

[Mammon]

I at least provided some argument based on its origin, while you simply call it stubborn.

Take the Illidan encounter in the black temple.
Thats an example of where it was present on a demon hunter before it was present on player warlocks.
That appeared in Cataclysm.

It's stubborn because I'm not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mine.
"DHs had it first" doesn't mean Warlocks can't have it. The lore explanation even says its a reverse engeneered version of Illidan's spell:

You haven't been seen in battle since the siege of the Black Temple. If it weren't for having shared the secrets of Illidan's transformation with this council, I would kill you just for having the audacity of summoning me

Also, the player character gained Meta in WotLK.


OT:
I liked the MoP theme, where the summons empowered me. Also the resource management.
At very least hope they bring back good tools being baseline. This bare-bones spec with it's tools coming from talents they did in Legion is really annoying.

[alexchaos]

We all knew it but knowing that they left demo in a failed experiment state for a whole expansion is unacceptable in my opinion. Especially since we've been giving the SAME DAMN SUGGESTIONS since ALPHA. Other classes got reworked during the expansion when things didn't feel right.

Mages, rogues and even destro got one. Not knowing what to do with the spec isn't a good reason to leave it in such a state. Having a decent DPS output isn't enough and blizz knows this.

I only hope they won't make it worse as I'm pretty sure they are capable of going that direction.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

We all knew it but knowing that they left demo in a failed experiment state for a whole expansion is unacceptable in my opinion. Especially since we've been giving the SAME DAMN SUGGESTIONS since ALPHA. Other classes got reworked during the expansion when things didn't feel right.

Mages, rogues and even destro got one. Not knowing what to do with the spec isn't a good reason to leave it in such a state. Having a decent DPS output isn't enough and blizz knows this.

I only hope they won't make it worse as I'm pretty sure they are capable of going that direction.

What do you want them to do if they don't know what to do. That's absolutely an excuse. If they do something without having a good idea of what to do chances are that the spec ends up worse for it.
Also simple fixes were usually given to other classes/specs because they had been previously tested (e.g. shardbits for destro).

[ComputerNerd]

It's stubborn because I'm not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mine.
"DHs had it first" doesn't mean Warlocks can't have it. The lore explanation even says its a reverse engeneered version of Illidan's spell:

Also, the player character gained Meta in WotLK.


OT:
I liked the MoP theme, where the summons empowered me. Also the resource management.
At very least hope they bring back good tools being baseline. This bare-bones spec with it's tools coming from talents they did in Legion is really annoying.

You call it stubborn again, but dismiss the reason because you don't like it.
The point is whether you like it or not, it was established with a demon hunter before it appeared on warlocks.
The "lore" was an excuse to justify it, and reading that back it sounds really poor as a reason.

That lore simply did not exist, and was created to explain it.
That does not in a single way prove your argument or do anything to undermine mine.
In fact it proves who the stubborn one is, and it isn't me.

It was established, and had we had something taken from another existing class instead they would be saying the same.
It was copied from Illidan, not something that "belonged" with warlocks.

[alexchaos]

What do you want them to do if they don't know what to do. That's absolutely an excuse. If they do something without having a good idea of what to do chances are that the spec ends up worse for it.
Also simple fixes were usually given to other classes/specs because they had been previously tested (e.g. shardbits for destro).

So you're telling that during 2 years they couldn't find something to fix the clunkyness that DE is and push it into live servers?

[Mammon]

You call it stubborn again, but dismiss the reason because you don't like it.
The point is whether you like it or not, it was established with a demon hunter before it appeared on warlocks.
The "lore" was an excuse to justify it, and reading that back it sounds really poor as a reason.

That lore simply did not exist, and was created to explain it.
That does not in a single way prove your argument or do anything to undermine mine.
In fact it proves who the stubborn one is, and it isn't me.

It was established, and had we had something taken from another existing class instead they would be saying the same.
It was copied from Illidan, not something that "belonged" with warlocks.

Is this argument about warlock Metamorphosis or about the word "stubborn"? Yes, I am stubborn. Like I said before, I'm not going to change my mind on warlock Meta, no matter what anyone say.
You say you aren't stubborn but also dismisses a good lore reason because you don't like it. That's what lore is, explanations and excuses for things to happen. If its pre existing or a retcon doesn't matter.
I said before and will say again. It's a make believe world. No fact is set in stone. I think locks can have Meta and you don't, that's the end of the argument.