BFA foreshadowing as far back as "Tides of War?"

[Omedon]

So I'm catching up on seemingly relevant novels I missed during a past WoW hiatus, and I just tripped over something pretty significant while listening to the "Jaina Proudmoore: Tides of War" audiobook!

The day after the destruction of Theramore, when Jaina was at the height of her hate for the horde, she pleaded angrily with the ever-neutral Kirin Tor to mobilize Dalaran to magically annihilate Orgrimmar while the populace was all present celebrating. The council of six would not grant this wish, to which Jaina responded:

"Will you act when Teldrasil falls? When they are burning a world tree?"

I mean... I'm just sayin'...

[Cardboard Fox]

This is actually a pretty interesting discovery. Jaina -has- held a grudge for a while. Maybe -she- lit Teldrassil on fire and framed the Horde, just to spark the war she always wanted.

[Deleted]

So I'm catching up on seemingly relevant novels I missed during a past WoW hiatus, and I just tripped over something pretty significant while listening to the "Jaina Proudmoore: Tides of War" audiobook!

The day after the destruction of Theramore, when Jaina was at the height of her hate for the horde, she pleaded angrily with the ever-neutral Kirin Tor to mobilize Dalaran to magically annihilate Orgrimmar while the populace was all present celebrating. The council of six would not grant this wish, to which Jaina responded:

"Will you act when Teldrasil falls? When they are burning a world tree?"

I mean... I'm just sayin'...

No direct foreshadowing at all, I think this could be pretty clear. Or at least not intentionally? Back then, Christie Golden wasn't a direct part of the lore/writing team. She also wrote War Crimes, but in War Crimes, Jaina -did- forgive Thrall during the trial and it seemed rather fine between her and the Horde. Yet, we never quite got that impression afterwards. It seems like, they're going with that canon still, now that Christie is on the team, in order to actually avoid a retcon on that part and with the Horde & Alliance conflict at the heart of BfA, they literally turned that quote into a thing that will happen, sort of like it was "intentionally foreshadowed". That's my take on it, anyway. I was fine with Metzen writing - I like Christie's writing. But I think with her on the team, we may see improvements here and there.

[Omedon]

This is actually a pretty interesting discovery. Jaina -has- held a grudge for a while. Maybe -she- lit Teldrassil on fire and framed the Horde, just to spark the war she always wanted.

The "inside/unauthorized job" thread is a popular one in discussing the burning of Teldrasil, and many leap to Genn or the Desolate Council... but I'd certainly say that Jaina just "made the list" as well!

[Ianus]

Finally someone in Alliance with balls

[thesmall001]

I'm re-reading Tides of War right now too, it's chock full of foreshadowing that will hopefully serve as preamble to what is to come for Jaina.

I love Jaina. She is such a fully-formed character with such a well established and detailed history. Her motivations -from childhood, through the Arthas era, against her father, before and after Theramoore- have been so well explored that it is extremely easy to relate to her journey. Every decision she's ever made makes sense to her and (with all the book's help) we can see the reasoning too. But she is also a well explored person: her passions and skills and interests; the way she copes and exists on her day-to-day; the small things like her excitement for maths; or, her thinly veiled self-deprecating humour about not being worth much (which anybody who's ever dated a smart woman will likely recognise...), such that to do anything less than something excellent with her would be a tragedy.

No. I don't think Jaina will start the war, I think she will end it, because right now Jaina is on the last two steps of The Hero's Journey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey

I'll end with this quote from the book:

It seems as if I am struggling in the mud simply to be heard, let alone actually listened to. It's... difficult to try and be a diplomat and work for real, solid results when the other side won't acknowledge reason anymore. I feel like a crow cawing in the field, I wonder if it's just wasted breath.

And now the very world is dying and its speaker is described as feeling the same way. There's only two ways for this to go: Jaina must first recognise that she has become her own problem; then, all that remains, is to see whether she can overcome herself or if she'll repeat the mistakes of her father so that another character can become "original" Jaina. Good stories either unexpectedly end the same way or anticipatingly end the opposite way.

[SoulSoBreezy]

No. I don't think Jaina will start the war, I think she will end it, because right now Jaina is on the last two steps of The Hero's Journey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey

+1 for the hero's journey reference =D

[Ianus]

I just want jaina to kick some horde ass, so hordies can whine how she is bigot...and i can enjoy the story where she came to the point of her fathers view

[Schattenlied]

Well, they already confirmed that Jaina isn't evil/a villain in BfA, so, I'm gonna go with no, she didn't burn the tree and frame the horde, that would definitely make her evil...

[Omedon]

As a card carrying member of team "let me PVE with my horde pals while playing alliance," I'd be 100% ok with Jaina (or anyone) "ending" the war just enough to justify said PVE concessions, or faction agnosticism to character race choices. Once that moment of lore that adds such a feature has happened, they can take the story wherever the heck they want!

[Polybius]

I had forgotten that line. Good catch. Blizzard's writing team probably didn't consider it, but Christie Golden is now on board. And from previous books they want to keep some consistency. Hopefully they can do their characters' justice.

[Deleted]

The Mana Bomb is to be blamed.

Sylvanas can always justify herself with that.

Tyrande: "How could you burn Teldrassil? We were family once."
Sylvanas: "Garrosh used the Mana Bomb. This was nothing compared to his atrocities."

So yeah, Tides of War is important in BtA.

[Broken Fox]

Would be dope if Jaina was the one to do it

[Elim Garak]

I like how everyone forgot how Jaina colluded with the Horde. Going all friendly with Thrall and helping him escape. Don't trust that bitch.

[Super Kami Dende]

Jaina is one of the better written Characters in WoW, I look forward to Lady Proudmoore in BFA but I seriously worry Blizzard might go full Retard and make her "evil".

[Deleted]

The "inside/unauthorized job" thread is a popular one in discussing the burning of Teldrasil, and many leap to Genn or the Desolate Council... but I'd certainly say that Jaina just "made the list" as well!

and I am certain she didnt. that was just the next example that was handy back in the days and no foreshadowing at all.

[MrExcelion]

I think somebody at Blizzard remembered/re-read the book more recently (because faction conflict) and thought that'd be a cool lead-in

[Fenixhart]

Blizzard can't even keep one character consistent betweene xpansions and we're somehow suggesting they pulled Foreshadowing from almost three expansions ago?

Yeah, no.

[Skoll Shorties]

Did... Is this... Jaina did you do it?! GOSH DARN IT JAINA.

[Steampunkette]

It's a pretty big potential hit.

Alternatively, it could just be a random example she threw out that turns out to be true. Or unintentional prophecy, if Jaina turns out to be a Seer.

I'm honestly still holding out some hope that the wording of the Hight interview wasn't conclusive, and the Alliance moves first, on Lordaeron, with Tel'drassil as retaliation.