people portray vanilla as being super hard

[swunk]

Making a game very hard might not make it a good one.
But making a game facerolling easy is certainly making it pretty boring.
.

Faceroll? For who? the 5% of the whole player base?

[Deleted]

Anyone remembers Aion? How hard would you consider Runescape with Aion in terms of grinding?

[Tomana]

I love all these people pretending to remember what vanilla was like, we'll see how hard or easy it is a month into launch when the forums are flooded with complaints.

Errr... if people played in vanilla, why would they complain? Plus, players (hopefully) improved since 2004.

[Hitei]

I think I'll make this into a macro due to the amount of idiots who spam the same BS constantly :

No, it's more the moving goalpost of the anti-Vanilla crowd which redefines what "difficulty" means on the fly so to exclude whatever was in Vanilla. You can sum up 90 % of their argument with "X isn't making the game more difficult, just more tedious". Replace "X" with whatever the guy wants to discard. And so we often reach comically stupid argument like "having a mob with higher damage and HP doesn't make the game harder". Sure, mate, sure.

It doesn't though.

Having to press frost bolt 8 times is not harder than pressing it twice followed up by a flurry into an ice lance.
Or did you mean that clicking on food and water after a few mobs is hard?

If it's not harder than Legion, why don't you just grab whole packs then instead of only pulling 1-2 mobs ?

Pulling and fighting one mob is harder? It's a difference of pacing, not difficulty.

[Sanguinerd]

Errr... if people played in vanilla, why would they complain? Plus, players (hopefully) improved since 2004.

Why would people complain? You serious man.. People ALWAYS complain.

It's gonna be sweet as hell reading it all, you just wait!

[Tomana]

Why would people complain? You serious man.. People ALWAYS complain.

No, I get it, people will always moan 'cause it's human nature, especially if they didn't level back in vanilla. But if you played vanilla, you should not discover something unexpected in the leveling. Especially since you should know by now how to pull stuff and how to CC, which as a total noob in '06 I sure didn't.

[Jngizu]

You literally quote a message mocking the binary thinking of idiots who can't grasp that "harder than something very easy" doesn't mean "very hard".
And you manage to post this.
Herp derp.

No, you're the one who misunderstood. I disagree with you saying that Vanilla was harder. It wasn't, at all. It was just more grindy, everything took more time, but it wasn't actually harder. Now you can say that it's exactly why it was harder, and that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

Being snarky will not change the fact that Vanilla was never actually hard, mechanics-wise. In fact, the game is harder now in that aspect. But everything took a lot more time than it does now. Not to mention, all the artificial difficulty like having 8 warriors with proper gear, as well as having to find 40 people with half a brain.

[Akka]

No, you're the one who misunderstood. I disagree with you saying that Vanilla was harder. It wasn't, at all. It was just more grindy, everything took more time, but it wasn't actually harder. Now you can say that it's exactly why it was harder, and that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

=>
And so we often reach comically stupid argument like "having a mob with higher damage and HP doesn't make the game harder".

It doesn't though.

Having to press frost bolt 8 times is not harder than pressing it twice followed up by a flurry into an ice lance.
Or did you mean that clicking on food and water after a few mobs is hard?

Pulling and fighting one mob is harder? It's a difference of pacing, not difficulty.

You didn't answer the question. Why aren't you grabbing a whole pack ?

---

It's pretty incredible how the people arguing that "Vanilla wasn't harder, it was just more tedious" seems to all be afflicted with terminal reading disability.

[Sanguinerd]

No, I get it, people will always moan 'cause it's human nature, especially if they didn't level back in vanilla. But if you played vanilla, you should not discover something unexpected in the leveling. Especially since you should know by now how to pull stuff and how to CC, which as a total noob in '06 I sure didn't.

I'm pretty sure even those people will find something to bitch about. Hopefully not though.

[namecraft]

I hate people

[Rucati]

Let me check...



Nah, seems I am right, you didn't read it, because I actually said the opposite.

I find it pretty humorous that someone who fails sooooo hard at basic reading tries to give lesson on reading comprehension.

Except no, you literally said it was moderately challenging for most of the content. Did you not even read your own message? That's a new level of stupidity. Unless you don't understand that challenging and hard are synonyms?

[Pull My Finger]

I guess many people who played Vanilla WoW were very young back then. I imagine when you're 10 or 14 and you never really experienced the classic 8 and 16 bit video game eras, as well as early PC gaming, you don't really have that kind of gaming socialization and don't have those abilties internalized. I can see how those people thought WoW was "hard". Which is of course incredible nonsense.

All the others are full of shit, and are knowingly spewing blatant lies in an attempt to make an idiotic point.

[Cronovey]

You didn't answer the question. Why aren't you grabbing a whole pack ?

---

It's pretty incredible how the people arguing that "Vanilla wasn't harder, it was just more tedious" seems to all be afflicted with terminal reading disability.

Because back then Blizzard used mana for most classes as a form of "time gating" and there was less AoE. Now they simply restrict what quests unlock in a certain time period. Both are just ways to extend the duration of how long you play the game. There was nothing particularly difficult about pulling multiple mobs, but you were gated by resources back then as a way to slow you down on purpose. They realized that this is exactly what people are calling it: tedious. You're spending 5 times the amount of time to kill things, which isn't necessarily more difficult but just slower. They simply changed how they gate things now by adding debuffs to mobs or by gating the unlocking of content instead of leaving it all there but making you do it at a snail's pace.

They're different kinds of "difficulty" with the same overall goal: to make the player spend more time playing the game and keep coming back for more week after week, just for two different reasons. One time gate delay is story driven that makes players want to come back and see what happens next, the other is simply time gating your killing power because there wasn't enough content available back then to really keep players in game unless they had scheduled dungeons/raids/PvP with their guilds or friends. It was also slow because they wanted to keep the economy in check because there weren't really any ways to sink extra gold back then like there are now.

There are many reasons why people couldn't pull multiple mobs, but the core reason is because that was how Blizzard stopped you from consuming the content too fast back then. Same thing with rep grinding and attunements; all of the core Vanilla content was just the original time gating from them in a hidden form instead of just doing it openly like they do now.

[Jngizu]

=>
And so we often reach comically stupid argument like "having a mob with higher damage and HP doesn't make the game harder".

Because it fucking isn't. Having to use a spell 5 times instead of twice doesn't make it any harder. It makes it longer. There's nothing hard or challenging about it. We're talking about leveling here, not Mythic raid bosses.

You keep trying to be a smart-ass, when you're clearly the one who has trouble reading and understanding. W/e, I'm done with you, wasted enough time with someone who lacks basic understanding.

[Hitei]

You didn't answer the question. Why aren't you grabbing a whole pack ?

---

It's pretty incredible how the people arguing that "Vanilla wasn't harder, it was just more tedious" seems to all be afflicted with terminal reading disability.

Because I'd die? The same reason I don't grab more things than my class can handle in Legion?

The problem here is that you mistakenly believe that 1 mob dealing more damage (with generally zero mechanics) is somehow """harder""" than two mobs dealing the same damage.

Pulling and fighting one mob that does nothing but run at and attack you is not harder than fighting 24 mobs. Like I said, it is a matter of pacing. Is eating one big grape harder than eating three small grapes that are roughly the same size? No.

Legion mobs can be a hell of a lot more dangerous in the appropriate gear, because they actually do things. AoE farming Talbuk packs on argus on my frost mage alt, with their ability to frequently charge and chain knock ups is a hell of a lot more dangerous than many of the packs I killed in Vanilla as frost.

[Sibylline]

Yeah guyse, vanilla was just tedious, not harder. Legion is practically identical for all intents and purposes. Being practically invincible doesn't make the game easier. Soloing current level 5 man dungeons doesn't mean the game is easy. No elites in the world or any kind of danger or inconveniences or requirements to think doesn't mean Legion is easy. Having 3 spells instead of 50-60 + a ton of ranks which could be situationally useful doesn't make Legion easy. Clickers in heroic Kil'jaeden spamming those 3 spells doesn't make the game easy. Infinite mana, threat and 50000 other mechanics that were in vanilla but don't exist in Legion anymore don't make the game easier.

Becoming the best at a certain skill or game or thing isn't difficult, it just takes time and effort.

You could say this for literally anything. The amount of irl bots and delusion on this forum is unreal.

[Kralljin]

I can see how those people thought WoW was "hard". Which is of course incredible nonsense.

The majority of Vanilla's content lied within questing from 1-60, the endgame was at first just an afterthought, MC was put together by the devs within one freaking week.

And as far as leveling is concerned, Vanilla was harder.

It wasn't rocket science or anything, but if you didn't follow some basic guidelines, you died a lot.

Take the Gnoll area in southern Elwynn (around Hogger) if you just ran into those camps during Vanilla, you kissed the ground rather quickly, so you pulled those patrolling guys one by one, looked around for any respawning mobs / patrols, looked for a "safe spot" to regen mana / health.

As said, it wasn't super difficult, anyone willing to sit through it hit 60 sooner or later, but those that were careless during levelling died a lot more.

Next to that, the class you picked had a serious impact on your leveling experience, Hunter were deemed a "noob class" because they were so freaking easy to level once they hit 10, Priest were seen as super hard because shadow made levelling tolerable at best.

[Akka]

Except no, you literally said it was moderately challenging for most of the content. Did you not even read your own message? That's a new level of stupidity. Unless you don't understand that challenging and hard are synonyms?

=> The problem comes from the retards with binary thinking who can't manage to grasp than "harder than current" doesn't mean "super hard".

And no, "moderately challenging" doesn't mean "very hard". That's why there is the "moderately" word in it. Words have meaning.

Now you're wasting my time kiddo, come back when you have the reading ability of at least a six-years old.

[Surfd]

Next to that, the class you picked had a serious impact on your leveling experience, Hunter were deemed a "noob class" because they were so freaking easy to level once they hit 10, Priest were seen as super hard because shadow made levelling tolerable at best.

Well, yeah, if you tried to level a priest solo. Priests were originally designed to be healers, first and foremost. Healer's dont solo. Sure, you could kill stuff, but it would take you FOREVER. Instead, you paired up with some squishy dps like a rogue or mage, and steamrolled through stuff much faster than either of you could ever hope to individually. That was part of the design philosophy of vanilla.

[Dergiab]

When you blow up a mob on 1-2 global cooldowns, making the mob not being able to retaliate in any way, that is certainly not challenging in the least.

That is the current state for all classes and specs while questing. The class and spec determines if it takes 1 or 2 GCDs.

The saddest part is that they removed orange and red quest difficulty, so you are not allowed to try your hand on difficult questing content.