Vanilla wasn't hard, it was annoying

[Deleted]

Almost no one says it was harder, it was just more involved, it took time to do things, there was NO instant gratification, and many people like that... The world felt big, right now it feels tiny. The world felt dangerous, now it feels pathetic and weak.

5 mans were definitely more involved than they are now, requiring CC, pulling carefully, now it's just pull group->everyone spams AoE, even when doing mythic+ at +10 or +15, whatever the max is for reward chest ilvl at the given time.



Leveling was definitely harder, I enjoyed that, you had to, much like 5 mans, pull carefully, CC any additional adds you accidentally pulled so you wouldn't die. Now it's just, like 5 mans, pull whatever->spam AoEs or 1-2 hit kill everything.

Leveling should be an anti-power fantasy, the world should feel strong, not you, and you the player are fighting through it to prove your worth, to become a hero, you aren't the hero from the start, leveling should be your journey to try to get there. Anti-power fantasy gives things meaning, makes it feel like there is actually danger, like there are stakes, like you're really needed. If everything is a pushover, it all feels pointless, 99.99% of the time it feels like there is no danger because we're basically invincible murder machines running around with god mode toggled on.

Being able to kill same'ish level mobs completely naked shouldn't even be remotely possible, let alone this easy (so far that monk is up to lvl 68 and still kills stuff while naked that quickly, it's not fun).


my 2c

Nicely said, I completely share your vieuws on this topic.

[RapBreon]

i cant wait for all the tears to be flowing when people die in the barrens and realize there is only 1 GY right in the middle and they will spend at least 20-25 levels there dying and running. I actually really do love and prefer vanilla but the misery of others is delicious

Fuck me, I remember that and it was back in the day of only 1 monitor. Uhguhguhguhughg, I HATED dying.

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You are comparing apples and oranges. Vanilla / BC required players to do their roles via tasks such as cc which were critically important; so every different class you bring to a raid was a different experience that you had to learn. An uber high dps hunter that couldn't trap to save his life had limited value.

Now you have lots more mechanics, but it is the same experience because *all* you care about the dps and heals with high numbers and tanks to absorb.

Basically, Vanilla was a full-blown play with many parts to be played. Each person has a lot less to memorize, but each part was notably different.

Current raiding is a 3 group chorus. Each person has more to memorize, but everyone in each group does exactly the same thing.

Trying to compare a play to a chorus is pointless and stupid. They are two different things. Some people enjoy both for what they bring. Some people only like one or the other. But one is not superior or harder or whatever than the other.

Oooh good analogy. I'm sure someone will claim 'false equivalence!'. But I liked it!

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I played on Nost PvE server when it was around last year.
I didn't expect it to suck me in either.
I figured I would give it a try, cure my nostalgia, and then put it away rather quickly.

The opposite happened.
I fell in love with WoW again.
It wasn't just nostalgia. It was something more. Vanilla has a specific gameplay style that I enjoy more than any other game I have ever played.

Yeah very similar experience, made me realise how much I missed those 'old-school RPG' games.

[Xargoth6634]

You lost me when you reported playing on a private server instead of actual vanilla. Anyway, you're wrong; vanilla was harder AND had elements that were more annoying. Pulls and cc certainly required skill, because if you pulled too much you were straight up fucked, and that's just one example.

[Akka]

Also, dieing is a mistake, nobody FORCE you to die.

And samely, not being able to communicate with others in a MMO is a mistake.

[Aliven]

And samely, not being able to communicate with others in a MMO is a mistake.

Being able imply a choice. You can choice NOT to communicate with others.

Once again, forced communication is not a good way to communicate. Wonder why spamming trade chat in looking for group died. Hmmmm. Maybe because we got much better and more efficient tools?

[Dergiab]

Yup.

Everyone has better pcs, better net, discord farming servers, 1.12.1 talents, better itemization, pre-bis routes and leveling routes. People know all the mind control tricks, the classes and meta stacking. It's a joke. Even if they do progressive content, it doesn't make it difficult enough.

There's a reason private servers literally became "Waiting for Naxx" servers. Everything was zerg rushed and you just waited for Naxx to be scripted or released.

You either never played on private servers or hanged out exclusively with the 'l33tz'.

A huge chunk of people is still on their way to 60 or haven't touched anything beyond max level dungeons. Just like the good ol' days.

[Hunterwep]

If it was easy everybody would have cleared Naxx40, most guilds did not even kill C'thun...

[Piesor]

You cannot compare your Vanilla xp when you approach a 13 year old game on a private server with the knowledge from today. Back in the days you just lived the hype and everybody was a noob. That made the experience quite unique.

[Akka]

Being able imply a choice. You can choice NOT to communicate with others.

I can decide not to fight back when a mob jump on me too.

Once again, forced communication is not a good way to communicate. Wonder why spamming trade chat in looking for group died. Hmmmm. Maybe because we got much better and more efficient tools?

Actually you're wrong, forced communication is a pretty good way to communicate. Communication requires efforts, commitment and going out of your comfort zone, so if you're not required to do it by the context, nobody will do it, which will end up being a single player game (which is pretty much what happened to WoW).

Looking for group in chat died because of the convenience and lack of commitment that one button faceroll gave. Note that the dumbing down of the game was also part of this - if the game stays hard, then you need communication to filter people to make a good group.

Your reasoning that "forced communication is bad" is just wrong. Forced communication is actually good.

[RapBreon]

I can decide not to fight back when a mob jump on me too.

Actually you're wrong, forced communication is a pretty good way to communicate. Communication requires efforts, commitment and going out of your comfort zone, so if you're not required to do it by the context, nobody will do it, which will end up being a single player game (which is pretty much what happened to WoW).

Looking for group in chat died because of the convenience and lack of commitment that one button faceroll gave. Note that the dumbing down of the game was also part of this - if the game stays hard, then you need communication to filter people to make a good group.

Your reasoning that "forced communication is bad" is just wrong. Forced communication is actually good.

Correct, I talked to noone in Legion outside of my friend circle. Until my friend circle stopped playing or moved on and I wanted to do M+.

I still am anti-social as a general rule, but circumstances put me in a situation to be social. I can't say I enjoyed being social though, but that is preference.

[asil]

You are aware most of those videos posted are from private servers and not real vanilla videos right? Also factor in we had a ton less abilities to deal with situations like we have now, mana management was actually a thing, threat was a thing, various classes/specs were not allowed..........oh and I doubt you raided in Vanilla or you would know this.

A) No they are not.

B) Not a single thing you just listed was challenging on any level. You had less abilities, and bosses also had almost no actual mechanics to deal with so it didn't even matter.


Vanilla was a joke dude, at some point this is a reality you're just going to have to accept. Easily the least challenging pve I've experienced in this game.

[Aliven]

I can decide not to fight back when a mob jump on me too.

Actually you're wrong, forced communication is a pretty good way to communicate. Communication requires efforts, commitment and going out of your comfort zone, so if you're not required to do it by the context, nobody will do it, which will end up being a single player game (which is pretty much what happened to WoW).

Looking for group in chat died because of the convenience and lack of commitment that one button faceroll gave. Note that the dumbing down of the game was also part of this - if the game stays hard, then you need communication to filter people to make a good group.

Your reasoning that "forced communication is bad" is just wrong. Forced communication is actually good.

But people can still spam trade chat. This option was never disabled. Stop with hyperbole that overnight everyone became antisocial.

I'm sorry for you if you believe forcing other to communicate is good and healthy.

[Akka]

But people can still spam trade chat. This option was never disabled.

Which proves my point.

Stop with hyperbole that overnight everyone became antisocial.

Actually, the introduction of LFD made for a very stark and brutal change in mentality.

I'm sorry for you if you believe forcing other to communicate is good and healthy.

I'm even more sorry for you that you don't manage to realize how communication is fundamental for a MMO and as such making it required is a very basic design point.

[Seefer]

A) No they are not.

B) Not a single thing you just listed was challenging on any level. You had less abilities, and bosses also had almost no actual mechanics to deal with so it didn't even matter.


Vanilla was a joke dude, at some point this is a reality you're just going to have to accept. Easily the least challenging pve I've experienced in this game.

Yeah keep telling yourself that, my guess is that you weren't even there and just claim it like everyone else or your "experiences" with vanilla were on private servers.

[Direpenguin]

Yeah keep telling yourself that, my guess is that you weren't even there and just claim it like everyone else or your "experiences" with vanilla were on private servers.

The best part is how they have to keep coming around, making threads, trying to convince everyone that Vanilla was really how they see it.

Insecurity is such a cute attribute in a person...

[Arrowstormen]

WoW is a far better "game" now. However, as it gradually became a better designed game mechanically speaking, it became less and less of a "fantasy world simulation". I think that's what people are really missing when they think back on the olden days.

[Pantalaimon]

Vanilla might be inconvenient, but the inconvenience placed value on other areas of the game besides raiding and some people enjoyed that. I will mainly play current WoW but just let the vanilla people be excited idk why just because you don't like the effort required you have to put other people down. People commenting all over about how shitty vanilla is but why does it matter to you? Most aren't offering any sort of quality criticisms, it's just a jumbled mess of "rose-tinted glasses" and "omg these people are delusional." Guess what? It's not for you.

One thing to consider is that some of us have changed in the many years since WoW was young. I don't want things handed to me with little effort and ease (I mean I've done long mount grinds like the one for Alani, or farming trolls literally for months in Pandaria to sell for gold to buy multiple tcg mounts), but WoW was so much closer to the extreme grindy version of table top rpgs, made video game. Often times that required an extensive amount of time to accomplish sometimes small tasks. Nowadays I personally have job schedules to deal with and extensive school schedules. I for one wouldn't want to have to go back to that when my play time would be considerably limited now (I'd get almost nothing accomplished). That does not sound like fun anymore.

[Daffan]

You either never played on private servers or hanged out exclusively with the 'l33tz'.

A huge chunk of people is still on their way to 60 or haven't touched anything beyond max level dungeons. Just like the good ol' days.

Most people quit before 60, The Nost distribution was hilarious. Your either 60 or sub 30 and quit.

[Alienshroom]

Anyone talking about vanilla raid mechanics has not only no clue about anything but has not kept up on the movement. Nobody talking about vanilla servers before the announcement ever went on and on about raid difficulty. People want the old world back. The raids are just cheddar.

[The Sun]

Vanilla was your average 2004 computer with 512 mb ram, 1-core AMD cpu and a slow ass 5400 rpm hard drive that boots Windows XP in 7 min and launch WoW.exe in 7 min too. and that freezes for 5min when you want to alt+tab to open Internet Explorer.

This is what people want to experience again in 2017.

I mean... why not?