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  1. #41
    Weeellll you can get crapped on with the us BM hunters then. At least the company's nice(r).

  2. #42
    Did they change something with nightstalker that would cause gloomblade to pass it? Don't see how the 4pc giving the same chance on backstab and gloomblade to proc it would make gloomblade the better choice. And if you're still playing DFA (which the sims have you doing) wouldn't nightstalker be better still for the extra layer of damage amp on top of it? Guess it's in part of wanting to wear 2pc/4pc and having to drop the shoulders which loses some of the value of nightstalker?
    Last edited by britishbubba; 2017-11-20 at 02:51 AM.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Rogues will get buffed, no worries.
    Sims might actually be a bit better this time around considering that there are 2 near-patchwerk fights in Antorus.

    To be honest, considering how rogues scale, I could see outlaw getting really strong on farm/final mythic push for most guilds.
    Not only are they the only ones who scale with haste, they also should benefit the most from Golganneth proc, and let's be fair, a ilvl1000 Golganneth when you AR with SnD and get Grand Melee from tier will be absolutely ridiculous.

  4. #44
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sendula View Post
    Rogues will get buffed, no worries.
    Sims might actually be a bit better this time around considering that there are 2 near-patchwerk fights in Antorus.

    To be honest, considering how rogues scale, I could see outlaw getting really strong on farm/final mythic push for most guilds.
    Not only are they the only ones who scale with haste, they also should benefit the most from Golganneth proc, and let's be fair, a ilvl1000 Golganneth when you AR with SnD and get Grand Melee from tier will be absolutely ridiculous.
    what? Rogues scale bad with gear and outlaw is the worst specc in that term (in fact the worst in the game). Outlul will probably never be the go to specc this expansion if they dont like buff their numbers with a ridiculous amount.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by britishbubba View Post
    Did they change something with nightstalker that would cause gloomblade to pass it? Don't see how the 4pc giving the same chance on backstab and gloomblade to proc it would make gloomblade the better choice. And if you're still playing DFA (which the sims have you doing) wouldn't nightstalker be better still for the extra layer of damage amp on top of it? Guess it's in part of wanting to wear 2pc/4pc and having to drop the shoulders which loses some of the value of nightstalker?
    The only reason me and my competition could think of was the way crit is valuated without the shoulders. Crit’s value is increased a fair amount without the shoulders, which also increases the value of the Weak Point trait (and Quiet Knife too), along with any other +dmg traits.

    Weak Point i think becomes the best trait (i may be wrong here) With the higher crit we’ll have (or be aiming for) for 100% of the time (instead of 5sec every vanish) GB/BS & SS become much more valuable in relation to Weak Point.

    Basically, crit is more valuable because we’re not using the shoulders. And that means we’ll aim for more crit, with more crit 100% of the time, the fillers(BS/GB) become higher valued damage.

    Or i could be way off and puffing smoke out of my ass.
    I might be way off here.

  6. #46
    Pandaren Monk MisterBigglez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by britishbubba View Post
    Did they change something with nightstalker that would cause gloomblade to pass it? Don't see how the 4pc giving the same chance on backstab and gloomblade to proc it would make gloomblade the better choice. And if you're still playing DFA (which the sims have you doing) wouldn't nightstalker be better still for the extra layer of damage amp on top of it? Guess it's in part of wanting to wear 2pc/4pc and having to drop the shoulders which loses some of the value of nightstalker?
    Nightstalker is on a different row to Gloomblade, unless you meant Master of Subtlety. The set promotes spending as many combo points as you can aswell as building them up as quick as you can, which is why legendaries such as the Vigor ring and Insignia are rising in value. We will be wanting to Backstab as much as we can and because we will most likely be dropping the shoulders to use the t20 2 set, we will need more crit, which will increase the value of Weak Point trait which in turn adds more value to Gloomblade. See how it all comes together

  7. #47
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by britishbubba View Post
    Did they change something with nightstalker that would cause gloomblade to pass it? Don't see how the 4pc giving the same chance on backstab and gloomblade to proc it would make gloomblade the better choice. And if you're still playing DFA (which the sims have you doing) wouldn't nightstalker be better still for the extra layer of damage amp on top of it? Guess it's in part of wanting to wear 2pc/4pc and having to drop the shoulders which loses some of the value of nightstalker?
    The sims are very close among talents in that row, but the reason Gloomblade rises to prevalence on ST fights is through Insignia.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iettlopp View Post
    what? Rogues scale bad with gear and outlaw is the worst specc in that term (in fact the worst in the game). Outlul will probably never be the go to specc this expansion if they dont like buff their numbers with a ridiculous amount.
    Well, Outlul has a chance to not be useless with both SnD and RtB buffs. I did say they have the potential to be ridiculous, it does have requirements but you gotta admit Golganneth's proc dunks Frond by a mile and is also AoE. No spec in the game can benefit from it as much considering outlul is the only one left that has a significant amount of damage tied to autos.

    Doesn't mean they'll be second to none, just as strong or a tad stronger than other rogue specs though? Definitely, but this is 100% feelcraft.

  9. #49
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    So with Golganneth, should i stop trying to get the frond trinket? Or the best trinket combo for outlaw snd will be frond + golganneth?

    Also, golganneth says "dmg abilities", so its does count auto attacks , or just the abilities?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbywabby View Post
    Nightstalker is on a different row to Gloomblade, unless you meant Master of Subtlety. The set promotes spending as many combo points as you can aswell as building them up as quick as you can, which is why legendaries such as the Vigor ring and Insignia are rising in value. We will be wanting to Backstab as much as we can and because we will most likely be dropping the shoulders to use the t20 2 set, we will need more crit, which will increase the value of Weak Point trait which in turn adds more value to Gloomblade. See how it all comes together
    Yeah meant master of subtlety >.<

    And yeah, makes more sense when you put it that way. Would have thought bracers > insignia for getting more combo points out for the 2pc then though.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    A mage with prydaz can do this just as well. Give us damage, we are pure dps, we dont have a heal or tank spec to fall back on.

    That said I don't buy into early sims at all so dont confuse me being worried about rogues dps, its too early to tell.

    Im just going on last tier with sub nerfs and outlaw/assassin being garbage, and haste being about as useful as early sims we need a tuning bump no doubt
    Neither does anybody else. You can't just "fall back" on a spec of an entirely different role, because if you could, your guild would already be disfunctional because there's a lack of tanks/healers.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Neither does anybody else. You can't just "fall back" on a spec of an entirely different role, because if you could, your guild would already be disfunctional because there's a lack of tanks/healers.
    I get your point but you can just as easily say one of those healers or tanks switches to dps which isnt unheard of either.

    Point I was trying to make is I would like to do damage rather than be a cheat death gimmick.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by britishbubba View Post
    Yeah meant master of subtlety >.<

    And yeah, makes more sense when you put it that way. Would have thought bracers > insignia for getting more combo points out for the 2pc then though.
    The problem with wrists is that you need CoF to go with it to make it better which means you end up sacrificing a trinket slot. With new trinkets coming in shortly, CoF will just lose its value (although most trinks suck besides pantheon)

    Insignia is used just because of the amount of damage you will be doing with Gloomblade and Shadowstrike. Madaswell add an extra 15% to that aswell as some cleave.

  14. #54
    Deleted
    I did a video about sin rogue and t21 in antorus. i guess like in tos, sin is still viable, dont always trust simcraft, this is shit as fuk xD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5BR5sjfoKk

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    A mage with prydaz can do this just as well. Give us damage, we are pure dps, we dont have a heal or tank spec to fall back on.
    I will never understand this argument, just because you dont have a tank/healing spec you're supposed to be on top of the meters? Its not like the havoc demon hunters, dks, warriors, priests, druids etc get to reroll to healer or even TANK if their dps is bad in a given tier just because they have a tank/healing spec? If you're in a raid team as a dps, you're gonna play dps 99% of the time. In fact, you can be happy you have 3 dps specs as a rogue, cus most of the time one of them will be viable. See basically all raids that came out ever, its not gonna be diffrent in antorus, one spec will be at least mid pack. Im maining a havoc demon hunter, that spec was useless af during progression, that was really annoying. rogue is gonna be fine

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    A mage with prydaz can do this just as well. Give us damage, we are pure dps, we dont have a heal or tank spec to fall back on.
    I will never understand this argument, just because you dont have a tank/healing spec you're supposed to be on top of the meters? Its not like the havoc demon hunters, dks, warriors, priests, druids etc get to reroll to healer or even TANK if their dps is bad in a given tier just because they have a tank/healing spec? If you're in a raid team as a dps, you're gonna play dps 99% of the time. In fact, you can be happy you have 3 dps specs as a rogue, cus most of the time one of them will be viable. See basically all raids that came out ever, rogue is one of the best progress dps, its not gonna be diffrent in antorus, one spec will be at least mid pack, on top of that u have unparalleled utility. And rogues are sure as hell better at mechanics than a mage with prydaz, or am i missing something? Feint, cheat death, cloak on a short cd, self heal, great mobility with sprint, shadow step vs being a clothie noob with iceblock every hour and being able
    to blink 10 yards?
    Im maining a havoc demon hunter, that spec was useless af during progression, that was really annoying. And i wasnt better off just cus i could tank as well. rogue is gonna be fine though

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Extai View Post
    I will never understand this argument, just because you dont have a tank/healing spec you're supposed to be on top of the meters? Its not like the havoc demon hunters, dks, warriors, priests, druids etc get to reroll to healer or even TANK if their dps is bad in a given tier just because they have a tank/healing spec? If you're in a raid team as a dps, you're gonna play dps 99% of the time. In fact, you can be happy you have 3 dps specs as a rogue, cus most of the time one of them will be viable. See basically all raids that came out ever, its not gonna be diffrent in antorus, one spec will be at least mid pack. And rogues are sure as hell better at mechanics than a mage with prydaz, or am i missing something? Feint, cheat death, cloak on a short cd, self heal, great mobility with sprint, shadow step vs being a clothie noob with iceblock every hour and being able
    to blink 10 yards?
    Im maining a havoc demon hunter, that spec was useless af during progression, that was really annoying. And i wasnt better off just cus i could tank as well. rogue is gonna be fine though
    What if the tank/heal spec is so good that its in demand you can get recruited by a different even better guild! And you just so happen to be sick of your old guild. Did you think of that option?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    What if the tank/heal spec is so good that its in demand you can get recruited by a different even better guild! And you just so happen to be sick of your old guild. Did you think of that option?
    that's an option of course, didn't think of that

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Extai View Post
    that's an option of course, didn't think of that
    The point I was trying to make is I rolled rogue to do damage, not soak puddles with feint and cheat death.

    I knew when method stacked rogues for avatar/kj it would lead to this so Im more dissappointed in the community class stacking tbh.

    Our utility shined too bright, now we will be mediocre at everything. Everyone should just reroll aff lock and fury warrior

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    The point I was trying to make is I rolled rogue to do damage, not soak puddles with feint and cheat death.

    I knew when method stacked rogues for avatar/kj it would lead to this so Im more dissappointed in the community class stacking tbh.
    yeah of course its silly that you had to soak so much, but neither did i roll dh to be a subpar class for progression and possibly reroll tank because havoc dps sucks (which i both didnt do, just to put the "pain" of being a rogue into perspective)

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