If The Cataclysm Revamp Never Happened...

[WhiteEagle888]

Do you think some would even scream for Vanilla today?

No revamped zones/quests etc. just usual progression

Many view Cataclysm as the culprit of WoW's decline. What do you think?

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Just a quick question: Do you know of any quests or other features which the Cataclyms removed from Outland and Northrend?

To rephrase this question:
Was there something introduced with BC and WotLK which Catacylsm got rid of - Aside from the main Klaimdor and Eastern Kingdoms Continents?
- were there any other revamps happening in the zones of the previous two expansions?

[Akka]

I think it was WotLK which was the culprit, Cataclysm just cemented the deal.

[Warrax]

Even without zone revamps classes got much stronger and there is also heirlooms, items that got buffed from green to blue, accessibility and I pass a lot. Vanilla is much much more than just playing in the original zones.

[Rurin]

The game was changed gradually over the years, there was no singular point in time which changed it so much that vanilla was suddenly needed

[Eon Drache]

The game was changed gradually over the years, there was no singular point in time which changed it so much that vanilla was suddenly needed

People have been wanting Vanilla realms since TBC launched. I would say TBC was the one big change that made vanilla desirable.

[Zensunni]

I think it was WotLK which was the culprit, Cataclysm just cemented the deal.

0/10 Troll.

[Zafire]

For me it was mid-WOTLK when group finder came out. I really didn't like that feature. I went from having multiple groups to run heroics with, having people invite me to raid with them because of my good DPS, to...nobody talking to me anymore. It was sad.

In any case, I do not like group finder because it exchanged social communications with convenience.

[A Chozo]

They should've made old Kalimdor + EK acessible through the Caverns of Time. Simply as that.

Removing/modifying big stages of your game is weird. They should ADD, and avoid the total removal.

[Flurryfang]

The cata revamp was actually a quite good thing for the game, alot of the zones did not work very well as a dynamic leveling experience Today, they should proberly have made it timelocked using Chromie, but hey, you can't always win.

I think the expansion which washed away the Vanilla method was Wrath, because it was there that dungeons and raids changed completly from the original design and we are still feeling that design to this day.

[Rurin]

People have been wanting Vanilla realms since TBC launched. I would say TBC was the one big change that made vanilla desirable.

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/pc-m...-wow-25902237/

[Swalload]

Do you think some would even scream for Vanilla today?

No revamped zones/quests etc. just usual progression

Many view Cataclysm as the culprit of WoW's decline. What do you think?

The end of wrath was the start of the end really. The revamp in cata was one ofthe good job they did in that xpack. The problems of WoW are unrelated to the cata content. It's just design decisions of making all lvling easier and faster, etc. It has some good in it but the real problem is that it changed the game too much over time. Like if they continued WoW like vanilla and TBC was and just make a completely different MMO with QoL and everything easier and faster pace like retail WoW, we would have a much better idea of which one is better if they both lived side by side. Now we have the feeling that we lost something and it was relpaced by something we didn't really bought in the first place. And then again, it's just perception based on the "after it happened" but in the moment most of these changes were very well recieved. The overall tanking rework made a lot of people play tank and love it, it made dungeons easier but at the time they were hard so it felt like a welcome change. Faster lvling was nice cuz people were tired of wasting timeto get alts up to speed. LFD was drowning in jizz, people fucking loved that shit. And many more. It's just after a while that we feel like we miss what is gone.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Well I think it should be said that getting vanilla right first should be the priority. If it goes right and things are smooth than the next logical step takes a three fork in the road.

1. Add or do nothing. Ever again.

2. Move to just releasing a TBC server that mirrors how you made the vanilla server.

3. You could create content for vanilla and just extend what it is. Like you release Hyjal for example but just in a vanilla format.

One and two are the ones I think would work best. This is of course an opinion for those that like to play the "you don't speak for everyone" crew.

First one speaks for itself so.. I mean yeah..

Looking at number 2 first I feel it makes the most sense from every angle. One it allows players choice. So if you just want to stay vanilla you can just stay vanilla. If you want to move on to TBC than here you go. You have the choice. It also gives Blizzard a cash grab by allowing character copy over for a small fee. So community gets to stay and do what it wants and Blizzard can make money for those that move on. Win/win. This can of course also apply to moving to Wrath from TBC and all the way until it just stops being successful.

For number 3 this is all I can say. Once you start adding shit it makes things get fucked up MOST the time. You either trivialize the older stuff which defeats the purpose of classic realms or new cooks in the kitchen stink the place up. Unless of course it goes perfectly.. but seriously.. we are still stuck on earth and the jesus isn't making these games. Of course if it went utterly perfectly it would be great but that usually isn't where I put my money.

[Kralljin]

Vanilla servers were up for debate since BC.

Honestly, a lot of people always look at Wotlk and say "that's when the game changed", but in truth it was BC that laid the groundwork for the sweeping changes that Wotlk made.

For starters, the "easy epics" thing came into existance during BC when raid loot was offered for Badge of Justice, especially flared on during 2.4 when BT equivalent Loot was made available for raiding Karazhan (since BoJ dropped there) multiple times.

A lot of people complained about Arena and the death of "real PvP" (=Battlegrounds).

Some people complained about the streamlined questing in BC, whereas in Vanilla you had them all over the place.

In BC the dungeon layout was also extremely changed, Vanilla dungeons are sometimes quite massive and confusing / less logical whereas BC dungeons were streamlined so you could navigate much easier, the "Pre Instance" stuff was also removed, you could go straight for Instance Portal.

The Cataclysm changes were neccessary because a lot of people dreaded to level another character from 1-58 because Vanilla levelling was so much "worse" than in BC where quests gave meaningful rewards and were properly streamlined.

[callipygoustp]

Personally, I think the world should regularly go through changes. There is so much unused real estate in the game at this point; I think the amount of existing dead space ridiculous.

[Drefan]

0/10 Troll.

Well it's a matter of opinion. I think Wotlk did some things well but the revamp of Naxx into 10/25 and Trial of the X raid was comeplete dogshit also the introduction of LFG was terrible since it killed of the community even further.

Was Cataclysm a better expansion than WOTLK? No it wasnt but it still had some great moments. I think that heroics were actually well designed and a lot of fun before the nerf. The raids werent surperior than WOTLk but I think that HC Raggy was epic af, even more so than LK. Biggest fuckup was LFR. The Cata revamp was needed to introduce Deathwing so I see nothing wrong with it.

[RobertMugabe]

What a bad poll, anyways...

Classic servers would've happened still. Vanilla was quite different compared to ANY xpac. For me and basically most players at this time, the game started at lvl1. Lvling and exploring was the main thing people were doing, as reaching lvl60 was the goal... Since pretty much TBC the game was focused on endgame and endgame only. Lvling, which is the core part of an RPG became suddenly something secondary... something you just had to do before actually "starting" the game.

[Pull My Finger]

I don't think it has anything to do with Cataclysm. It's more just a bunch of drama queens/attention whores being left behind by time and progress.

[RobertMugabe]

Vanilla servers were up for debate since BC.

Honestly, a lot of people always look at Wotlk and say "that's when the game changed", but in truth it was BC that laid the groundwork for the sweeping changes that Wotlk made.

For starters, the "easy epics" thing came into existance during BC when raid loot was offered for Badge of Justice, especially flared on during 2.4 when BT equivalent Loot was made available for raiding Karazhan (since BoJ dropped there) multiple times.

A lot of people complained about Arena and the death of "real PvP" (=Battlegrounds).

Some people complained about the streamlined questing in BC, whereas in Vanilla you had them all over the place.

In BC the dungeon layout was also extremely changed, Vanilla dungeons are sometimes quite massive and confusing / less logical whereas BC dungeons were streamlined so you could navigate much easier, the "Pre Instance" stuff was also removed, you could go straight for Instance Portal.

The Cataclysm changes were neccessary because a lot of people dreaded to level another character from 1-58 because Vanilla levelling was so much "worse" than in BC where quests gave meaningful rewards and were properly streamlined.

THIS /10char

[Kralljin]

Don't you dare use logic, and evidence here! The "BC Was best" crowd will turn up and we will have no end of problems!

It was a two parter, BC changed alot of the "RPG Elements", the questing, gearing process, no more class quests, no quests tied to legendaries, and so forth.

Wotlk however made sweeping class changes, the BC changes were a bit more...subtle, they happened but were not noticed because the overall gameplay was very similiar, in Wotlk the change was felt much more directly.

[ONCHEhap]

People have been wanting Vanilla realms since TBC launched. I would say TBC was the one big change that made vanilla desirable.

pretty much,vanilla ending is why people wanted vanilla back