More Kil'jaeden nerfs tomorrow yeah or nah?

[dcc626]

Yeah but you actually have to raid regularly to benefit from those :P

which is what they want.

[Xloudman]

This is true of many of the bosses in TOS, tbh.

Sisters of the moon is another bad one. Maiden/avatar are bad too. These fights make the mediocre players stick out like a sore thumb, and many guilds this tier ran into a recruitment wall so you end up getting stuck with these players at least until the end of the tier.

Yeah, maiden isn't a 500 or 600 pull boss though. There's a psychological difference between knowing someone fucked up 20 of your 200 pulls vs 60 of your 600 pulls to the same thing. Even though they're the same percent, you start to wonder "why didn't they learn after the 59th time?" Avatar was kind of the odd one out cause we spent our first like 50 or 60 pulls learning phase 2, and then they nerfed phase 2 to the ground once we'd gotten phase 1 down.

[asil]

Yeah, maiden isn't a 500 or 600 pull boss though. There's a psychological difference between knowing someone fucked up 20 of your 200 pulls vs 60 of your 600 pulls to the same thing. Even though they're the same percent, you start to wonder "why didn't they learn after the 59th time?" Avatar was kind of the odd one out cause we spent our first like 50 or 60 pulls learning phase 2, and then they nerfed phase 2 to the ground once we'd gotten phase 1 down.

KJ for a lot of guilds is going to build resentment. Especially for all the guilds that just missed cutting edge. There is someone on our team that wiped us legit like 75 times on avatar out of 350 or so pulls and everytime the beam was failed or an unbound chaos got them you'd just hear "oops" in teamspeak and it was like nails on a chalkboard after a while.

And when we did kill the boss that player very nearly wiped us at like 10% by running a dark mark into a soak puddle and then dying and killing 6 other players.

[Daltin]

KJ for a lot of guilds is going to build resentment. Especially for all the guilds that just missed cutting edge. There is someone on our team that wiped us legit like 75 times on avatar out of 350 or so pulls and everytime the beam was failed or an unbound chaos got them you'd just hear "oops" in teamspeak and it was like nails on a chalkboard after a while.

And when we did kill the boss that player very nearly wiped us at like 10% by running a dark mark into a soak puddle and then dying and killing 6 other players.

Are we in the same guild?

[KaPe]

Are we in the same guild?

It's not like such situations are uncommon. Even people killing KJ will hear that dreaded "oops" sound. We had that on our own kill, where someone ran directly into a flame orb right at the end, but luckily it got sucked into a rift right away. I'm pretty sure most of us were going "oh God, we were so close and now it's over..."

The issue is, most of the time you could assign people to take care of problematic stuff. You knew they could handle it, or at very least make far less mistakes than others. With ToS, that's not possible - you'll run out of mobility skills, gain too many stacks of debuffs, get one shotted by something. Any mistakes are punishing immediately and far too harshly.

I'm curious if they'll change KJ after Antorus goes live. I don't think anyone would want to go back there, even with superior gear, so those who failed to get that 9/9M might be stuck at 8 for quite a while. I can see failed Armageddon being an instant wipe even with extra 1.5mln hp and that's being fairly generous.

E: Also, doesn't appear to be any hotfixes? I guess EJs won't be getting their kill.

[Xloudman]

E: Also, doesn't appear to be any hotfixes? I guess EJs won't be getting their kill.

I refuse to believe the scum that is hazzacoaster wouldn't hotfix the fight enough to make it killable for his own guild after he admitted it way was overtuned.

edit: just checked their logs and they had some phase 3 wipes so maybe that contributed to it, also his healing is so low lmao

[Cheze]

KJ is just way too intolerant of small mistakes, while giving you way too many chances to make them. If they're gonna have so many 'touchy' mechanics (armageddon soaking, orb dodging, singularities during the transition, etc) the penalty for screwing them up needs to be much smaller than a raid wipe, or even instant death for an individual player. It's mentally draining for the whole group because nobody can play perfectly for a whole evening, and the penalty for not playing perfectly is really severe.

Even as hard as avatar is there's some margin for error on everything but the meteors, and even those you can get away with fucking up toward the end of the attempt.

we killed him last week and I'm already dreading going back for a re-kill; we want to get CE for several people who were in on a lot of prog, but I really don't wanna do that fight anymore.

[Nnyco]

if you need more nerfs for kj you should stop progressin on him

[Deleted]

I refuse to believe the scum that is hazzacoaster wouldn't hotfix the fight enough to make it killable for his own guild after he admitted it way was overtuned.

edit: just checked their logs and they had some phase 3 wipes so maybe that contributed to it, also his healing is so low lmao

I like how there is legitimately 1(!) single death healers could have done anything about in their 5 good tries from tuesday. But even if he wasn't holding back on purpose (which btw he his, just check his mana) your post shows why so many guilds struggle and will continue to struggle on "hard and overtuned" bosses. And it's nearly never about throughput or setup. It's undervaluing leadership and mentality. There are guilds that killed avatar world 30ish with 1 rogue, there is an alliance guild in the top 5 that killed kj with 2 dks and no warrior. There are guilds in the top40 that legitimately raid 12h and get carried by their raid lead and officer team. But hey keep crying about hard bosses and make forum threads instead of improving and changing your attitude - maybe Blizzard will soon cave in and give you another Emerald Nightmare so that you can feel good while staying bad.

Oh and btw facts: there are more KJ kills than blackhand and archimonde ones in the same timeframe although lots of guilds disbanded since then.
KJ hard boss at this point nice meme. I can only imagine how 25heroic ragnaros would have grinded you. Check how many guilds killed him pre DS (25m that is, 10m was a nice medium difficulty boss).

[Achilles55]

I don't think it needs it but I wouldn't be surprised if more ToS nerfs happened when Antorus releases.

[Deleted]

Oh and btw facts: there are more KJ kills than blackhand and archimonde ones in the same timeframe although lots of guilds disbanded since then.
KJ hard boss at this point nice meme. I can only imagine how 25heroic ragnaros would have grinded you. Check how many guilds killed him pre DS (25m that is, 10m was a nice medium difficulty boss).

Thats not true. Blackhand had less kills simpy because after 5 months HFC was already opened for over a month so guilds stopped progressing it and just go HFC, you cant count that.

About Archimonde, right now after 5 months we have 415 KJ kills, Aphex (https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu.../rating.tier18) was the 415h guild to kill mythic Archimonde and did that in exactly 5 months as well. So KJ is even with Archi? Not at all. Because HFC was 13 bosses vs TOS 9, meaning that even if the time is even, in that time in HFC guilds cleared 13 bosses, in TOS only 9. Why? Because TOS and KJ are definately harder than what HFC/Archi were.

[Daffan]

And? If they don't have it, and it goes away they didn't deserve it. It's really that simple. Why would they make it easier to get the week before it goes away forever?

Exactly, these people are scrambling for the fences because time running out LOL

[Xloudman]

I like how there is legitimately 1(!) single death healers could have done anything about in their 5 good tries from tuesday. But even if he wasn't holding back on purpose (which btw he his, just check his mana) your post shows why so many guilds struggle and will continue to struggle on "hard and overtuned" bosses. And it's nearly never about throughput or setup. It's undervaluing leadership and mentality. There are guilds that killed avatar world 30ish with 1 rogue, there is an alliance guild in the top 5 that killed kj with 2 dks and no warrior. There are guilds in the top40 that legitimately raid 12h and get carried by their raid lead and officer team. But hey keep crying about hard bosses and make forum threads instead of improving and changing your attitude - maybe Blizzard will soon cave in and give you another Emerald Nightmare so that you can feel good while staying bad.

Oh and btw facts: there are more KJ kills than blackhand and archimonde ones in the same timeframe although lots of guilds disbanded since then.
KJ hard boss at this point nice meme. I can only imagine how 25heroic ragnaros would have grinded you. Check how many guilds killed him pre DS (25m that is, 10m was a nice medium difficulty boss).

Looks like we found Roger Goodell's wife.

[Deleted]

The fight is no longer difficult. Everything that's bad has been nerfed one way or another. There's no more obvious nerfs left to do - plenty of guilds already stop DPS for ages (or find themselves pushing before the second DPS adds) because of HP nerfs.

Simply put, "Nah". Dudes on par with most other nerfed end bosses at this stage. No nerfs needed. If you can't get him this last week, you weren't good enough.

Agreed. The fight has no real hard spots anymore except maybe for the responsibility of finding the safe spot in Phase 3. Further nerfing the fight would make it a joke. How would they nerf it then, in a way that makes some sense?
- Singularity knockback distance?
- Bursting Dreadflame radius?
- Healing add hp?
- Obelisk spawn count?

- - - Updated - - -

That's fucking horseshit and you know it. Main difference between top 100 guilds and top 500 is exactly how well they play.

I disagree. There's no magical skill ceiling difference in WoW between a top 100 guild and a top 500 guild. Sure, the top 100 guild is likely to attract players who are more invested in the game, but the lack of complexity in playing WoW makes it so that skill gaps aren't that massive.

The biggest difference between a top 500 team and a top 100 is time spent. My guild is exactly 500th, we raid 6 hours per week. I do not doubt that if we'd bump that to 12 we would be way closer to 100-150. We took 1 week off mid October due to RL things happening, we have attendance problems on progress, etc. That simply happens in 400-500 guilds made up of people with actual lives and families and hamper progress and ranks, but none of that means players are significantly less skilled.

Your comparison with Method is asinine. You're taking the top guild and using it as an example of a top 100 guild. Method plays an absurd amount, runs a huge amount of split runs, spend a lot of time on the PTR, etc. They obviously have exceptional people and play in an environment where they don't have a lot of other resources available to help them kill an encounter, but their situation (and that of a few similar top 10 guilds) is so absurd to use as the benchmark for how top 100 guilds work that it's clear you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

- - - Updated - - -

This is bullshit, you kidding even? The difference is first and foremost time. Yes, I'd imagine Method is not packing derps, but they spend insanely massive amount of time splitting and wiping and what not first two weeks.

On the other hand you have guild like ours who raid two nights per week 3 hours each and that's it. We're a bunch of working people with lives and families. If we were 4 bloody nights per week guild and more at progress we'd be frikkin top 100 at the least.

Same situation here, agreed.

[Simmias]

- - - Updated - - -

I disagree. There's no magical skill ceiling difference in WoW between a top 100 guild and a top 500 guild. Sure, the top 100 guild is likely to attract players who are more invested in the game, but the lack of complexity in playing WoW makes it so that skill gaps aren't that massive.

lol there is a massive skill difference. Stop using the timesink excuse for your shitty play.

[Deleted]

About Archimonde, right now after 5 months we have 415 KJ kills ,Aphex (https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu.../rating.tier18) was the 415h guild to kill mythic Archimonde and did that in exactly 5 months as well. So KJ is even with Archi? Not at all. Because HFC was 13 bosses vs TOS 9, meaning that even if the time is even, in that time in HFC guilds cleared 13 bosses, in TOS only 9. Why? Because TOS and KJ are definately harder than what HFC/Archi were.

We have 680 KJ kills at the moment. And again it's not about how difficult KJ was initially it's about how difficult he's right now (and has been for quite some time now): easier than endbosses in WoD at a comparable point in time. Also there are easily 30% fewer serious mythic guilds nowadays than there were in BRF and HFC.

[vorchun]

The biggest difference between a top 500 team and a top 100 is time spent. My guild is exactly 500th, we raid 6 hours per week. I do not doubt that if we'd bump that to 12 we would be way closer to 100-150.

And if you'd bump it to 120 you'd suddenly become top 1? Oh wait, you wouldn't, 'cause you can't compensate skill w/ any amount of hours after some point. And it's not even about skill for some people, they can't focus for more than 2-3 hours straight and start derping massively.

[Paulosio]

Had a 3, 4 and 6% wipe last night after over 500 pulls lol. On 1 try got to 10% with everyone alive and then lost about 15 people to an obelisk... Pretty heartbreaking.... Should get it this reset if we don't lose our minds 1st.

I hate super long bosses where the main difficulty is just trying to stay awake through the tedium.

[Caprix]

And if you'd bump it to 120 you'd suddenly become top 1? Oh wait, you wouldn't, 'cause you can't compensate skill w/ any amount of hours after some point. And it's not even about skill for some people, they can't focus for more than 2-3 hours straight and start derping massively.

Nice strawman.
When a guild raids 6h a week, there is obviously a large room for guild ranking improvement just by adding 1 or 2 raid sessions per week.

[Deleted]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...anis/gurgthock Ej have done KJ no more nerfs QQ