Are lootboxes gambling & should games be regulated. BF2 and OW under investigation

[Romanthony]

I dont see why Overwatchs lootboxs need investigating when all you get is cosmetic stuff where as Battlefront 2 is hiding progression behind a paywall

[Vespian]

Couldn't EA just add a "currency" to Battlefront 2 and you pay money for that currency. And that currency can be used to buy lootboxes. Wouldn't that eliminate any gambling laws that may effect it?

You really have no idea where the gambling aspect is do you ?

[dope_danny]

I dont see why Overwatchs lootboxs need investigating when all you get is cosmetic stuff where as Battlefront 2 is hiding progression behind a paywall

Because most lootboxes are designed from the ground up to be habit forming. What do you think the big flashy opening animations are for? They show a frame or two of a legendary followed often by disappointment which indentures the consumer with an addictive personality to subliminally think "oh so close, maybe just one more" but of course its never JUST one more and thats exactly what it was designed for.

Im honestly surprised how many people think publishers/developers in AAA are the good guy looking out for the consumer. These games are designed from the ground up to milk your wallet first. It is the number one priority.

[Redwolf]

I'm curious as to why Overwatch is part of it while something like Hearthstone isn't. Does being a TCG vs FPS make the difference?

*Note: Not bashing Hearthstone or any TCG, because I know that's how you get cards. (I play MTG)

These yokels in public office tend to go after what ever the public makes a stink about. Hearthstone, though popular, isn't what Overwatch and BF2 are to the community.

Hearthstone will be included eventually.

[Greevir]

You really have no idea where the gambling aspect is do you ?

You're no longer paying real money for a chance at something. You are paying real money for "insert currency name here". You know what you're getting. So it's no longer gambling.

[stellvia]

I dont see why Overwatchs lootboxs need investigating when all you get is cosmetic stuff where as Battlefront 2 is hiding progression behind a paywall

The problem is its still obfuscating attainment of content via a randomized system. And its done that way specifically to incentivize you to pay them money for more boxes. Want only to work on skins? Tough. That stuff is buried into the same randomized box as a thousand other unrelated things. Do most people really care about voice lines and pre-set sprays, etc? No. Its there to inflate the pool of items to make it harder to get the stuff people really want: Skins.

In the past, most of this stuff was just provided in games by default, or had specific ways to unlock things, or even a generic currency for all unlocks that you could spend on specifically what you wanted. A number of RPGs come to mind for unlocking soundtrack music, alternate skins/outfits, etc.

They want you to have a certain level of simmering unhappiness and prey on that. Its a shitty tactic and we as consumers should feel insulted by it.

[GennGreymane]

Couldn't EA just add a "currency" to Battlefront 2 and you pay money for that currency. And that currency can be used to buy lootboxes. Wouldn't that eliminate any gambling laws that may effect it?

personally id rather direct purchase. I mean I hate the whole Spend 5 dollars for 600 credits. You can now buy an item thats 500 credits, but the cool item is 1300 credits. Shoulda done our 10 dollar option for 1350 creidts. I dislike that system.

[Kasierith]

You're no longer paying real money for a chance at something. You are paying real money for "insert currency name here". You know what you're getting. So it's no longer gambling.

If this were a true assessment of how gambling laws work, slot machines would not be considered gambling because you can purchase known quantities of tokens that you then use in the slot machine.

[Skulltaker]

Couldn't EA just add a "currency" to Battlefront 2 and you pay money for that currency. And that currency can be used to buy lootboxes. Wouldn't that eliminate any gambling laws that may effect it?

That is actually the case. You buy 'Crystals', and get Boxes with those. You get a fairly small amount of crystals by playing some 'milestones' - achievements, that is - but not enough to buy more than 2 total. And since Crystals are still a currency that would change nothing.

[dope_danny]

Yes

but personally id rather direct purchase. I mean I hate the whole Spend 5 dollars for 600 credits. You can now buy an item thats 500 credits, but the cool item is 1300 credits. Shoulda done our 10 dollar option for 1350 creidts. I dislike that system.

well technically thats a bank interest scam started by microsoft with "MS points". You hand over more money than you need and that additional raw profit sits in a bank generating interest. Raw profit and raw greed from a AAA industry that at best views the consumer as mindless sheep beneath them to influence into more money for the same shit and at worst actively predate on you thinking you are a fucking idiot who deserves being scammed.

[Deleted]

Couldn't EA just add a "currency" to Battlefront 2 and you pay money for that currency. And that currency can be used to buy lootboxes. Wouldn't that eliminate any gambling laws that may effect it?

You mean like casino chips? Still gambling.

[Orlong]

Can't change the ratings, there's no 21 rating here for games, only 18 is the highest and you need to be 21 for gambling. To start changing that they would need to create quite some good will with governments.

There is an AO "Adults Only" rating. Ive never seen it used on an actual game yet because I think they created it for pornographic adult games and I dont believe any have been made by an actual game studio.

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I dont like any. You can dress it up all you like, but it should be a direct buy, with direct cash, for fair prices. Not pay 5 dollars for 450 currency, and the good stuff is 500 currency so you shoulda done the 10 dollar for 900 currency instead or the 15 for 2000 currency deal.

I dont see that as any different than hot dog bun companies selling their buns in 8 packs or 12 packs when hot dogs come in 10 packs, so you have to buy two 8 packs and waste some or buy a 12 pack and waste some

[GennGreymane]

There is an AO "Adults Only" rating. Ive never seen it used on an actual game yet because I think they created it for pornographic adult games and I dont believe any have been made by an actual game studio.

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I dont see that as any different than hot dog bun companies selling their buns in 8 packs or 12 packs when hot dogs come in 10 packs, so you have to buy two 8 packs and waste some or buy a 12 pack and waste some

I pay direct money for the hot dogs.

[Orlong]

well, this is interesting



"The State of Hawaii announces action to address predatory practices at Electronic Arts and other companies. We will prohibit the sale of these games to people who are underage, this will become the norm for every game. Gambling is prohibited under 21."

Except he is just a congressman. Unless he can get a majority of the rest of them to vote the same way, he is just blowing hot air and shouting his opinion. Hes just another anti-capitalist far left democrat

[Xtrm]

I hate how Overwatch is being dragged through the mud with this lootbox controversy. It's 100% cosmetic rewards with no monetary value. Overwatch has made massive improvements to their lootboxes since launch and now it's a fair system. Why not go after CS:GO crates which have a monetary value on Steam and spawned a large amount of underground skin gambling sites?

[Orlong]

This isn't even close to being true.

When it comes to the PC market you are correct that most of the games these company's release do have those requirment's. But when it comes to console the story is completely different.

There is a massive difference in Day 1 DLC and Lootbox's that is gambling. Its now coming out that country's and states are stepping in to stop the sell of lootbox's to minor's.

This has a major impact because if these style of games are labled as gambling on a legal level many places like Gamestop will outright refuse to sell them. In many (If not all) states in order to sell a gambling product like the lottery you need a licence. Places like Gamestop,Amazon,Best Buy are not going to jump thought hoops to do this.

Minors should be monitored by their parents, not the government. Additionally, minors dont have jobs to make their own money, nor can they legally obtain a credit card so if they are getting loot boxes, then their parents are buying them for them, and as such the parents are not minors. Is it illegal for a parent to buy a scratchoff lottery ticket and let their 12 year old son scratch it off to see if it's a winner

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Hey kids, I just opened this new place where you can give me 10 bucks and I'll give you a box. The box can have 50 bucks or a stick of gum. It isn't gambling because you know all the possible outcomes of these boxes, and you always end up with something!

Should we ban the sale of mystery bags/boxes too then? They are sold by woot.com, many auctions, flea markets, etc.. How about we also ban monthly subscription services where people get a box every month but dont know whats in it like loot crate, mistobox, birch box, hello fresh etc?

[Vankrys]

Except he is just a congressman. Unless he can get a majority of the rest of them to vote the same way, he is just blowing hot air and shouting his opinion. Hes just another anti-capitalist far left democrat

he later said

People are more powerful than they think. While we are stepping up to act in Hawaii, we have also been in discussions with our counterparts in a number of other states who are also considering how to address this issue. Change is difficult at the federal level, but states can and are taking action.

i think i meant to change state law, not federal law.

[Terongor]

Words have meanings you don't get to change them and once more many country's have laws that disagree with you. Once again you are wrong about something you clearly know nothing about.

Encyclypedia Brittanica defines gambling only as "Gambling, the betting or staking of something of value, with consciousness of risk and hope of gain, on the outcome of a game, a contest, or an uncertain event whose result may be determined by chance or accident or have an unexpected result by reason of the bettor’s miscalculation."

So with that definition we can take nearly anything as gambling, because value could mean personal value and not monetary value.

[GennGreymane]

Encyclypedia Brittanica defines gambling only as "Gambling, the betting or staking of something of value, with consciousness of risk and hope of gain, on the outcome of a game, a contest, or an uncertain event whose result may be determined by chance or accident or have an unexpected result by reason of the bettor’s miscalculation."

So with that definition we can take nearly anything as gambling, because value could mean personal value and not monetary value.

I don’t think that encyclopedia would be cited

[oplawlz]

I hate how Overwatch is being dragged through the mud with this lootbox controversy. It's 100% cosmetic rewards with no monetary value. Overwatch has made massive improvements to their lootboxes since launch and now it's a fair system. Why not go after CS:GO crates which have a monetary value on Steam and spawned a large amount of underground skin gambling sites?

While I agree that OW has a less predatory system than EA, the fact remains that forcing people to gamble to buy the content they want is shitty behavior. I've said it before on these forums I'm sure, but if League of Legends can become one of the most played and profitable video games of all time while selling their skins directly, so can everyone else.

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Should we ban the sale of mystery bags/boxes too then? They are sold by woot.com, many auctions, flea markets, etc.. How about we also ban monthly subscription services where people get a box every month but dont know whats in it like loot crate, mistobox, birch box, hello fresh etc?

Ban minors from buying them? Sure, that's fair.