Will Trump forever be a stain in American history?

[ati87]

To be fair public education in this country was already extremely poor. My senior year in high school in (2005) the highest level of math we were taught was Trigonometry 101 and our highest Science was Stoichiometry 101. Also we had a board for everyone who got above a 21 on the ACT and I was the only one. I am sure in other countries this level of Math/Science would be their grade 8 equivalence. (Just as a side story my freshman biology teacher was complaining he had to teach the "theory of evolution" because as he pointed out that biological systems are just too complex to be by chance, just because humans have tailbone doesn't mean we once had a tail, everyone knows that the world isn't as old as people think and that radiation dating is a flawed science)

The internet policy is gonna hurt real bad but I am sure the next president will be "forced" to fix it. People like to troll the other side until they are personally affected by it.

Climate policy is atrocious too but at least some states/cities are doing their part in spite of the president. Its basically putting a band-aid over a gushing wound but something at this point is better than nothing.

Honestly the more I think about it the President in 2020 is basically going to be the "Fix it" president because not only will he/she have to fix all the mess the Trump administration is doing but they will need to find time to push their own agenda.

Well just saying, it doesn't help that every 8 years you have somebody undoing the gains you are making when you have somebody semi decent.

It's easy and fast to make a mess (Bush, Trump, Reagen, ) but to clean up the mess takes at least twice as long as making that mess int he first place.

[akris15]

Well just saying, it doesn't help that every 8 years you have somebody undoing the gains you are making when you have somebody semi decent.

It's easy and fast to make a mess (Bush, Trump, Reagen, ) but to clean up the mess takes at least twice as long as making that mess int he first place.

Oh I completely agree I was just looking at some silver lining that not all is lost and there is hope. I keep joking we are partying like its 2008 because Trump is determined to roll back the government to that point and our economy is starting to show the exact same numbers as late 2006. So if we roll back policies to pre 2008 and our economy is looking similar to 2006-2007 you know where I am going with this.

[Felya]

Ultimately Trump will simply have been the 45th President of the United States; no more, no less.

Public education has suffered continuously in this country since the time it was first federalized in 1978, like almost everything else ever. I'm sure the answer is to just feed the federal dep't of ed more money, though.

That’s bullshit... you choose to have your schools be shit, because you elect people who deregulate and then spend the money for shit that should be regulated against. The issue is the curriculum and lack of cohesion between schools. We need a standard that all school need to meet, where spending targets those who are failing, without writing a blank check. Shit like ‘no child left behind’ where the insensitive to get funding was to lower the grading standards, to get funding and schools that need funding most, being cut out as result, helped nothing. Putting public school up for sale, to move motivation from education to profit, isn’t going to help either.

[ati87]

Oh I completely agree I was just looking at some silver lining that not all is lost and there is hope. I keep joking we are partying like its 2008 because Trump is determined to roll back the government to that point and our economy is starting to show the exact same numbers as late 2006. So if we roll back policies to pre 2008 and our economy is looking similar to 2006-2007 you know where I am going with this.

But some damage goes beyond just that generation.

For example deregulation of the coal does more then just damage for 8 years or what about lead poisoning (see artikel of reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/investigates...t/usa-lead-la/

[Felya]

Well just saying, it doesn't help that every 8 years you have somebody undoing the gains you are making when you have somebody semi decent.

It's easy and fast to make a mess (Bush, Trump, Reagen, ) but to clean up the mess takes at least twice as long as making that mess int he first place.

There is a catch though. Obama never recovered, even after winning re-election, from the economy he inherited. Even though he took us from the ‘Great recession’ to the booming economy we see today. The stigma never really changed...

People’s memories don’t help things either. Bush and DNC, didn’t run against Gore, on the basis of Clinton’s economy being bad. Despite last years references to Clinton meaning bad economy, Bush ran on being better at what to do with a booming economy. It wasn’t the Obama/McCain speeches about the economy needing help after Bush. Nor was it Trump, bitching about the economy, as we are setting new records on our booming economy.

It’s a heart warming thought... but, history tells us, it has a bad case ADD...

[akris15]

That’s bullshit... you choose to have your schools be shit, because you elect people who deregulate and then spend the money for shit that should be regulated against. The issue is the curriculum and lack of cohesion between schools. We need a standard that all school need to meet, where spending targets those who are failing, without writing a blank check. Shit like ‘no child left behind’ where the insensitive to get funding was to lower the grading standards, to get funding and schools that need funding most, being cut out as result, helped nothing. Putting public school up for sale, to move motivation from education to profit, isn’t going to help either.

Like I pointed out if there was no standard of education my Freshman biology course would have taught creationism. Instead he was forced to teach the theory of evolution and basically intelligent design.

[Felya]

But some damage goes beyond just that generation.

For example deregulation of the coal does more then just damage for 8 years or what about lead poisoning (see artikel of reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/investigates...t/usa-lead-la/

Imagine if in the 90s GOP got away with taxing the shit out of internet commerce, like they tried. While also giving ISPs a lot more power, as they are trying now. Yes, it would have been just 4/8 years, but I doubt any of us would have smart phones. Netflix would have been in Japan... Facebook in Norway... because the barrier we would artificially create, would let other countries take over, much like they are doing with energy solutions.

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Like I pointed out if there was no standard of education my Freshman biology course would have taught creationism. Instead he was forced to teach the theory of evolution and basically intelligent design.

I believe the solution starts here:

http://dewey.pragmatism.org/creed.htm

[Cyberowl]

Usually a stain sets because someone else doesn't do something to clean up. We need to see how far the effects of all of his decisions will be, perhaps some things may not be fixable and he could be a stain.

What are you gonna do? Flashy thingy the whole world?

Being reminded that ~ half of the US is capable of voting for the biggest morons not once, but twice (Bush), is pretty telling about your population and no amount of chlorine is gonna bleach that.

[Mittens]

What are you gonna do? Flashy thingy the whole world?

Being reminded that ~ half of the US is capable of voting for the biggest morons not once, but twice (Bush), is pretty telling about your population and no amount of chlorine is gonna bleach that.

That's pretty funny coming from a german.

OT: People will forget Trump in a couple years or so.

[Jeezy911]

His own side controls both of those. From only a little knowledge of how that works, they should easily be able to do all of that, but because Trump is such a horrible boss and such an awful politician that anyone with half a brain is doing what they can to make sure he doesn't get his way.
.

His side? The establishment GOP absolutely hate him.

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It's amazing you can say that with a straight face when every single organization that has studied and reviewed it has shown it's almost only for the rich.

Not true at all, stop getting your tax law information from John Oliver.

[Stormdash]

That’s bullshit... you choose to have your schools be shit, because you elect people who deregulate and then spend the money for shit that should be regulated against. The issue is the curriculum and lack of cohesion between schools. We need a standard that all school need to meet, where spending targets those who are failing, without writing a blank check. Shit like ‘no child left behind’ where the insensitive to get funding was to lower the grading standards, to get funding and schools that need funding most, being cut out as result, helped nothing. Putting public school up for sale, to move motivation from education to profit, isn’t going to help either.

In the way that objective and measurable facts are bullshit, sure. But the US Department of Education didn't exist until 78 and the overall, district to district quality of a government provided education was better in the United States before it did. You can argue that that's a post hoc fallacy, vis a vis causation, but you can't argue factually that it isn't so; before we federalized education policy we were getting better education.

[Lenonis]

OT: People will forget Trump in a couple years or so.

that's a super weird comment given in this very thread people are comparing him to presidents long gone. He'll be written about in history books and talked about like all presidents are. No one is going to "forget Trump in a couple years or so"

[Noxx79]

His side? The establishment GOP absolutely hate him.

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Not true at all, stop getting your tax law information from John Oliver.

Waiting for facts here.... not going to be surprised when you link an ecxtreneky partisan organization....

[Mittens]

that's a super weird comment given in this very thread people are comparing him to presidents long gone. He'll be written about in history books and talked about like all presidents are. No one is going to "forget Trump in a couple years or so"

People pretty much forgot or are indifferent to what Bush did and international outlets print stories praising him. Trump will be the same.

[Deleted]

People pretty much forgot or are indifferent to what Bush did and international outlets print stories praising him. Trump will be the same.

Eh? Bush is still viewed as the moronic president that decided to start an immoral war on Iraq with lies which ultimately led to the fundamentalist Muslim problem today.... That's something he'll forever be known for, his intelligence and Iraq

[Lenonis]

People pretty much forgot or are indifferent to what Bush did and international outlets print stories praising him. Trump will be the same.

You're really exaggerating the effect of presidents receding into history.

People haven't forgotten what Bush did. It gets brought up on these forums pretty regularly.

It gets taught in schools.

The level of exaggerating you are using is really ruining the point I think you are trying to make is that Trump will not be viewed as intensely in the rear view mirror as he is now. Which, sure. Of course. But forgotten? C'mon.

[ipaq]

I remember asking this after his immediate election and now curious almost a year on what thoughts are. I don't think anybody can argue he has negatively affected Americas reputation worldwide

Nope only the 25% of the population that willfully voted for that misogynist, white supremacist, tool.

[Dontrike]

His side? The establishment GOP absolutely hate him.

Well who's fucking fault is it that Trump is hated by those same people that helped him get there? I wonder who could be entirely at fault. Couldn't be Trump's fault at all, nope. He is awesome and always right.

Not true at all, stop getting your tax law information from John Oliver.

Hahahaha. Nice one. You're so cute the way you keep being wrong and thinking you're right. It's like a toddler trying to fit the circle peg into the triangle hole again and again.

[Mormolyce]

He'll be like Bush before him, the Americans are amazing at electing shit stains.

You mean widely considered a low point of the Republic and a stain on the Presidency, until the next Republican President eclipsed him with at least as much stupidity, an even more odious level of corruption and an unfathomably repulsive personality to boot?

Hard to imagine unless the next successful Republican candidate is the decaying bones of Hitler brought back to life by black magic with the brain of Charles Manson, who rapes a bus full of primary school kids on national TV on a weekly basis.

But even then he might get points over Trump for at least being competent.

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OT: People will forget Trump in a couple years or so.

Of all the opinions one might potentially have on the topic, this one is the absolute least credible.

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Nope only the 25% of the population that willfully voted for that misogynist, white supremacist, tool.

It was actually just under 20% of the population (62,980,160 / 323 million). It was ~25% of eligible voters.

[Felya]

In the way that objective and measurable facts are bullshit, sure.

This is what you said. The only objective fact in it, is that Trump is 45th President of the US. Nothing measurable, all:

Ultimately Trump will simply have been the 45th President of the United States; no more, no less.

Public education has suffered continuously in this country since the time it was first federalized in 1978, like almost everything else ever. I'm sure the answer is to just feed the federal dep't of ed more money, though.

So, yes... bullshit...

But the US Department of Education didn't exist until 78 and the overall, district to district quality of a government provided education was better in the United States before it did.

What measurement are you using? Segregation only ended in schools, 24 years prior. Something that should objectively show a problem. What objective measurements are you using? Here is mine:

https://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp

Overview

This section, Historical Data, presents information from 1869-70-the date of the first Office of Education report-to the late 1970s on. The creation of the Federal Department of Education in 1867 highlighted the importance of education. The Act of 1867 directed the Department of Education to collect and report the "condition and progress of education" in annual reports to Congress. In the first report of 1870, the Commissioner proudly reported that nearly 7 million children were enrolled in elementary schools and 80,000 were enrolled in secondary schools. Also some 9,000 college degrees had been awarded. This contrasts with 1990, when 30 million enrolled in public elementary and secondary schools and 11 million enrolled in secondary schools. Over 1.5 million bachelor's and higher degrees were awarded.

What path has American education taken from such modest beginnings to such an impressive present? These and other questions prompted the Office of Educational Research and Improvement to review historical data and report on historical education statistics. This publication presents information from the first Office of Education report for 1869-70 to current day studies. It charts the development of the U.S. education enterprise from its past to the present day, pointing towards its future.

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You can argue that that's a post hoc fallacy, vis a vis causation, but you can't argue factually that it isn't so; before we federalized education policy we were getting better education.

Since I am the only one providing facts... I can argue... you are not presenting any fallacy. You are stating an opinion and alluding to objective facts, that you have not presented. I just posted something that states we went from 9k college degrees to 1.5 million... So... present your objective facts...