T21 set bonus rankings

[Temp name]

Are you new in WoW ?

If people keeps their T20, Blizzard won't buff T21, they will rather nerf T20. As usual.

Well they just buffed boomkin T21 for literally no reason other than trying to get chickens to use it for ST too.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

• DK's happy with blood and frost sets; can't speak to tuning on frost but %damage increase is welcome.
• BrM monk is disappointed this will go live, doesn't want to spam fire breath, and will mostly ignore tier 21.
• VDH is excited about wrecking some M+ in fel hulk (almost) always on mode.
• Prot Pally welcomes some extra block but worries it won't be enough if we face another KJ.
• Warrior thinks meh and has another beer. :D

[Tehterokkar]

Are you new in WoW ?

If people keeps their T20, Blizzard won't buff T21, they will rather nerf T20. As usual.

They'd have to nerf T20 for BM to oblivion for T21 to be better. T21 4pc is a 73k(~4.5%) DPS loss for me right now when simming Mythic T20 vs heroic T21.

[Deleted]

They'd have to nerf T20 for BM to oblivion for T21 to be better. T21 4pc is a 73k(~4.5%) DPS loss for me right now when simming Mythic T20 vs heroic T21.

Well did you adapt your gear and APL?

I know from sims that t21 is pretty strong for BM.

[Tehterokkar]

Well did you adapt your gear and APL?

I know from sims that t21 is pretty strong for BM.

What the fuck are you smoking? T21 is bad. At least link your sims before you speak shit.

[Deleted]

What the fuck are you smoking? T21 is bad. At least link your sims before you speak shit.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sle=true#gid=0

Pre hotfix though. Assuming their target is 7-8% a lot of them are pretty close.

And you will pick t21 anyways.

[Tehterokkar]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sle=true#gid=0

Pre hotfix though. Assuming their target is 7-8% a lot of them are pretty close.

And you will pick t21 anyways.

And that is a bogus sheet. 20 seconds off a weak CD is not worth 6% DPS. And there is literally no way you can get KC to be 37% of your total damage for 2pc to give 3.7%, #1 Goroth parse is only 34.9% KC damage.

[Deleted]

And that is a bogus sheet. 20 seconds off a weak CD is not worth 6% DPS. And there is literally no way you can get KC to be 37% of your total damage for 2pc to give 3.7%, #1 Goroth parse is only 34.9% KC damage.

Then pick the profile and sim it. I am no bm hunter, just tired about all those people crying about set bonuses.

[Cracked]

Then pick the profile and sim it. I am no bm hunter, just tired about all those people crying about set bonuses.

Been there done that, 2040k with 4p, 2010k without 4p, wow, such a great bonus. Granted, that's a 5 min fight. But given that those sets are meant to have longevity, as fights get shorter, the set will get even worse. LOL

[Deleted]

Your source is one of the worst, if the not the worst, pre raid data ever.

Maybe try to find something which actually compares T20 to T21 and not some random trash.

Oh "because t20 was overpowered you need to make t21 op too?".

T21 is supposed to be balanced versus each other, not better than T20.

If T20 is too strong, nerf T20.

What would be the alternative? Once a strong set bonus always a strong set bonus?

[Banard]

http://simulationcraft.org/reports/T21_Raid.html

perfect example of a S*(^*(T list...only BM listed is stomp and by all accounts we will be using DF in T21. Where this is one flaw there are others.

(not arguing BM will not be on the bottom but the gap isnt that large..basically add another 100k)

[Deleted]

perfect example of a S*(^*(T list...only BM listed is stomp and by all accounts we will be using DF in T21. Where this is one flaw there are others.

(not arguing BM will not be on the bottom but the gap isnt that large..basically add another 100k)

That's why set bonuses are better than some quick sims show. New set bonuses often favor different talents and legendaries, different stat weights (e.g. adding a new bis trait shifted my haste breakpoints so i gained 1.5k dps by shifting 400 mastery into haste). And ultimately they might change your rotation.

We had wrong APLs that showed talents to be weaker than they were. Perhaps a new set bonus is 5% gain, but you can gain another 4% by changing legendaries/gems/gear/talents.


Many people tend to cry too much and too early.

[Einsz]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sle=true#gid=0

Pre hotfix though. Assuming their target is 7-8% a lot of them are pretty close.

And you will pick t21 anyways.

Your spreadsheet is useless. You need to compare t20 against t21. Literally every single line in that spreadsheet is wrong
/facepalm

[Deleted]

Your spreadsheet is useless. You need to compare t20 against t21. Literally every single line in that spreadsheet is wrong
/facepalm

No you dont need to compare. They need to balance T21.

If T20 is too strong, nerf T20.

Set bonuses shouldnt be 10+%. Especially not for the wrong reasons.

[Einsz]

No you dont need to compare. They need to balance T21.

If T20 is too strong, nerf T20.

Set bonuses shouldnt be 10+%. Especially not for the wrong reasons.

And how would you know if t20 is too strong if you don't compare it to t21?

[Deleted]

And how would you know if t20 is too strong if you don't compare it to t21?

Thats not a T21 issue. They shouldnt make t21 overpowered because t20 is overpowered and t21 weak if t20 is weak.

They made a lot of mistakes back in t20. Fixing t20/t19 for windwalkers was a very good thing.

Balance t21, if necessary nerf t20 and if necessary buff specs that didnt overperform despite of op set bonuses (like windwalkers).

Many specs with op t20 overperformed anyways.

[Tehterokkar]

No you dont need to compare. They need to balance T21.

If T20 is too strong, nerf T20.

Set bonuses shouldnt be 10+%. Especially not for the wrong reasons.

Yes you do need to compare somewhat. If I go +15 ilvl in each slot in pure stats and I still get a 4.5% downgrade, the tier is shit.

It's not even that T20 is OP for BM, which it isn't. It's about T21 being so abysmal in value. For Killer Cobra build, you are comparing 15% KC damage(and cobra-shot) from T20 vs. 10% KC damage from T21. T20 is much stronger because most of your damage happens during BW phases where T20 not only boosts KC damage(by a fuck ton more due to 2p+4p interaction) and also Cobra shot damage. Meanwhile T21 you get 10% KC dmg and if you are lucky you get 1 extra AotW during a fight. Just because 4pc has CDR for AotW, doesn't mean it's good if you can never get an extra use out of it.

Also set bonuses are supposed to be 7-9% according to Blizzard's statement(they said this at some point before Tomb release IIRC).

[Deleted]

Well about bm hunters i read that you also need to change talents/gear, probably apl too. So picking t20 setup and ewuipping t21 and saying "t21 is weak" is pointless.

There has to be a reason why the spreadsheet showed t21 at nearly 10% increase and why blizzard nerfed 4pt21. I am no bm hunter so i cant tell you why.

When i am home i can sim stuff. But for now i cant do it.

[Tehterokkar]

Well about bm hunters i read that you also need to change talents/gear, probably apl too. So picking t20 setup and ewuipping t21 and saying "t21 is weak" is pointless.

There has to be a reason why the spreadsheet showed t21 at nearly 10% increase and why blizzard nerfed 4pt21. I am no bm hunter so i cant tell you why.

And neither is Blizzard(or the people who made the spreadsheet). Many many people have simmed this, before and after this joke of a nerf, T21 is bad.

There is no mathematical way that 2pc can be valued at 3.7% because assuming correct play you can't get to Kill Command being 37% of your damage. Same goes for 4pc, 1 extra usage per fight does not equate to 6% DPS.

[Deleted]

And neither is Blizzard(or the people who made the spreadsheet). Many many people have simmed this, before and after this joke of a nerf, T21 is bad.

There is no mathematical way that 2pc can be valued at 3.7% because assuming correct play you can't get to Kill Command being 37% of your damage. Same goes for 4pc, 1 extra usage per fight does not equate to 6% DPS.

Maybe, maybe not. I have seen too many players exagerate.

http://simulationcraft.org/reports/T21_Raid.html
Look at BM Hunter, kill command is listed at 37.5%.