"But it won't be real vanilla you damn none-purist filth!"

[Askyl]

Standard phrases from people who've obviously never played retail vanilla. They can add all these stuff as default:

- Direct autoloot option (no need to press shift)
- Quest helping mechanic on your minimap and big map
- Loot table on the map for instances
- Coordinates on your map
- CC duration meter
- Mail many items at once
- Raid warnings when the boss is about to use a specific ability
- Direct information in-game with comments on how to attain specific items or attunements

And a lot more that would increase the quality of life in Classic WoW. You're going to be outraged if Blizzard add them? Because it would remove the vanilla experience?

No, it wouldn't. I'm sure you didn't even play vanilla or was too young to understand mods and addons, but to educate you I'll just tell you all these things were in vanilla.

In all of the guilds I played in, CC duration meter, Raid Warnings, Threat meter, damage meter etc were mandatory. Both in vanilla and TBC. When questie was released, it was hard to find someone not use it. When you did, you told them about it and they loved it and downloaded it right away to get some alts up faster.

There are 2 kinds of people in these forums that I really hope either quit posting or start thinking:

- People who're just here to flame us wanting vanilla again, and then flame us more for wanting some changes.
- Purists who think they're better than anyone else and want everything exactly like it was, including bugs for some reason.

Shocking news guys, Vanilla WoW was patched and changed ALL the time. In 2 years and 2 months vanilla WoW got 38 patches. 12 major, with 16 balancing patches. That's more than 1.5 patch per month. Most of the balancing patches included ideas from the community, oh god that's us!

No one of us who truly wants to play vanilla wants to ruin the atmosphere, difficulty, game play or essence of the game. We all want just that. That's why we're excited for classic. Nerfing rogues a bit by making their attacks scale, making sure warriors aren't the only true main tanks, maybe even making shaman truly a good offtank (which they were supposed to be, but they failed with that) will not ruin the game. It will make it better and more enjoyable for everyone. Both oldschool gamers like me, and new gamers.

Neither will making small changes to BAD mechanics like sending multiple items in raids or adding some extra flight paths. Especially sharding, if they do that, the game would be 100 times better. Think about starting at release and you actually can quest, instead of servers crashing! Amazing.

I'm pretty sure Blizzard will do what's right and if you look at that big poll, they will if they take it into consideration.

[Heathy]

you have a point but i do think that if ppl want QoL addons they should make them, keep the ui relatively the same, its meant to be a museum not a revamp 'lets do it again but .. Better' thats not what they actually said.

the point you have though is a good one and something ppl should really realise, and that is that the game is the way it is today, pretty much because of player feed back.

ppl said in classic that the lfg chat was a shit way of trying to make groups, it took too long.. so we got a basic lfg window.
ppl said that they wanted to be more competitive with each other.. so we got, homogenization.
ppl said there was fuck all to do at level 60 that wasn't raid content or grinding pages in silithus. so we got better rep grinds and dailies.

ppl actually complained about the way things were and they were changed because of that feed back.

the game is the way it is today largely because ppl asked for it.

[Akka]

Standard phrases from people who've obviously never played retail vanilla. They can add all these stuff as default:

- Direct autoloot option (no need to press shift)

Yes.

- Quest helping mechanic on your minimap and big map

No.

- Loot table on the map for instances

Would need instance maps first (to which I would say : yes). Maybe.

- Coordinates on your map

Yes.

- CC duration meter

CC are just a debuff. Debuff duration is already in the game.

- Mail many items at once

Yes.

- Raid warnings when the boss is about to use a specific ability

There has always been some sort of warning, be it a texte announcement, a sound or a graphical move. I like the fact that the later two makes people required to pay attention to the fight.
Sooo... no.

- Direct information in-game with comments on how to attain specific items or attunements

No real need.

And a lot more that would increase the quality of life in Classic WoW. You're going to be outraged if Blizzard add them? Because it would remove the vanilla experience?

Half of the QoL that retailers ask about are things that, yes, chip away at the immersion/RPG aspect of WoW and which ended up giving us the current shit. I don't mind some, I do mind a lot of them.

In all of the guilds I played in, CC duration meter, Raid Warnings, Threat meter, damage meter etc were mandatory. Both in vanilla and TBC. When questie was released, it was hard to find someone not use it. When you did, you told them about it and they loved it and downloaded it right away to get some alts up faster.

You were in tryhard guilds, your problem. We never required any add-on from anyone as long as they could manage their shit, and I only ever used threatmeter in TBC and damagemeter because I liked them. No, I never used DBM or other shit, and I look down on people who do.

No one of us who truly wants to play vanilla wants to ruin the atmosphere, difficulty, game play or essence of the game.

The problem is not really people who deliberately want to ruin Vanilla. The problem is people who want to "improve" Vanilla and don't realize how it will ruin the game for others.
I'm sure that people who say "it's boring to have to drink/eat so often, let's improve massively regen" are honest in what they say. I'm also sure their suggestions are shit and should never be implemented, as it would remove an entire aspect of the game that was important in Vanilla and that I loved.
And the problem happens for each change proposed : some ARE pretty reasonable. Some aren't. And many are simply controversial, with people both honestly thinking it's no big deal on one side and other honestly thinking it's ruining the feeling on the other.

Also, there is this idea that thi is kind of a preservation of how the game was at a particular point. Like firing up your old Super Mario on an emulator. This mindset would exclude absolutely any change, because then it wouldn't be a preservation, it would be an update.

[Gungnir]

Bait thread.
Also, you can't automatically assume that everyone who has played Vanilla share your view.

I played Vanilla for way too long and I don't want anything changed, except maybe Soul Shards stacking to 10. But then again, I'm also more than entirely okay with that never happening. I'm just happy we're getting official Vanilla servers finally, so I can stop playing on private servers.

[jstnw89]

the game is the way it is today largely because ppl asked for it.

And that is why a lot of the purists are so toxic and against community feedback / changes

[Heathy]

its going to happen whether you like it or not though, maybe what they create is a very close representation of classic, maybe its close but doesn't quite feel the exact same.

i'm certain that the complaints that happened during classic will be the same when the server goes live. ppl will be bitching about how it takes too long to find tanks, why they can't be competitive in pvp or pve, why some specs aren't that good, why there isn't much to do at 60 solo. this whole thing is just going to cycle again. still like a year or more away so you have that much times worth of posts containing 'lets change this' or 'this shouldn't stay the same because it sucked' etc.

hopefully it stays roughly the same, they did say that they don't care if lots of ppl play or only a handful its going to be there so ppl can log into it and see what it was like. i'm betting they know full well the can of worms thats going to get opened from this. down to blizzard to decide what should change for the sake of longevity if anything should.

ppl remember classic from various points in its history, i remember the time before battlegrounds vaguely, i remember more from toward the end of classic after the gate was open. in the end whatever patch they decide to take it from the balancing and tuning stopped and changed course, the game wasn't exactly designed to be played indefinitely at patch 1.12 after that they shifted over to tbc balancing and homogenization. I don't think anyone can really claim classic was any specific patch version, being the 'real' classic. in my opinion what classic was did mostly continue into tbc, consumables were easier to get, but the raids were hard, the talent trees still existed, weapon skills still existed for a while anyway. tbc was basically classic revamped, it contained remedies to the problems that ppl were complaining about being a problem in classic. ppl were competitive, there was stuff to do solo at level cap. it was largely an improvement on the same formula.

[Thrax]

No Raid Markers? Back to CT_RaidAssist addon bois. Tanks don't lose your target else raid leader gon yell at you.

Fyi you can classify me as a purist. Both situations in my example are fine by me, but I'll always prefer the original no-change vanilla. No raid markers, 10 man Scholo/Strats, etc. but I don't expect we'll get the original hardcore experience.

And I can't speak for all "purists" but it's the constant posts asking for changes that's starting to tick ppl off.

[Raven]

Standard phrases from people who've obviously never played retail vanilla. They can add all these stuff as default:

- Direct autoloot option (no need to press shift)
- Quest helping mechanic on your minimap and big map
- Loot table on the map for instances
- Coordinates on your map
- CC duration meter
- Mail many items at once
- Raid warnings when the boss is about to use a specific ability
- Direct information in-game with comments on how to attain specific items or attunements

And a lot more that would increase the quality of life in Classic WoW. You're going to be outraged if Blizzard add them? Because it would remove the vanilla experience?

No, it wouldn't. I'm sure you didn't even play vanilla or was too young to understand mods and addons, but to educate you I'll just tell you all these things were in vanilla.

In all of the guilds I played in, CC duration meter, Raid Warnings, Threat meter, damage meter etc were mandatory. Both in vanilla and TBC. When questie was released, it was hard to find someone not use it. When you did, you told them about it and they loved it and downloaded it right away to get some alts up faster.

There are 2 kinds of people in these forums that I really hope either quit posting or start thinking:

- People who're just here to flame us wanting vanilla again, and then flame us more for wanting some changes.
- Purists who think they're better than anyone else and want everything exactly like it was, including bugs for some reason.

Shocking news guys, Vanilla WoW was patched and changed ALL the time. In 2 years and 2 months vanilla WoW got 38 patches. 12 major, with 16 balancing patches. That's more than 1.5 patch per month. Most of the balancing patches included ideas from the community, oh god that's us!

No one of us who truly wants to play vanilla wants to ruin the atmosphere, difficulty, game play or essence of the game. We all want just that. That's why we're excited for classic. Nerfing rogues a bit by making their attacks scale, making sure warriors aren't the only true main tanks, maybe even making shaman truly a good offtank (which they were supposed to be, but they failed with that) will not ruin the game. It will make it better and more enjoyable for everyone. Both oldschool gamers like me, and new gamers.

Neither will making small changes to BAD mechanics like sending multiple items in raids or adding some extra flight paths. Especially sharding, if they do that, the game would be 100 times better. Think about starting at release and you actually can quest, instead of servers crashing! Amazing.

I'm pretty sure Blizzard will do what's right and if you look at that big poll, they will if they take it into consideration.

Yes those would increase quality of life but those quality of life changes was not in vanilla so shouldn´t be there now either.

it simple if you take vanilla and make changes to it, quess what then its no longer vanilla.

[Lumineus]

- Quest helping mechanic on your minimap and big map

So, what specifically is your objection to this? The Vanilla experience? Well, lemme tell you, unless you're a Technomancer with levels in Necromancy IRL, so you can rise Thottbot.com from its grave, you're not gonna get the Vanilla questing experience.

[Avar ize]

Yes those would increase quality of life but those quality of life changes was not in vanilla so shouldn´t be there now either.

it simple if you take vanilla and make changes to it, quess what then its no longer vanilla.

So? Why you saying that like it is a bad thing? They said Classic Wow not Vanilla Wow, Hell i do not think Blizzard ever dropped the word Vanilla

[Deleted]

Standard phrases from people who've obviously never played retail vanilla. They can add all these stuff as default:

- Raid warnings when the boss is about to use a specific ability

Since most bosses had a /yell or /emote before they used their specials, the earliest way we did this was to create a new chatwindow with /y and /e channels, made it 1-2 lines high and put it in the middle of the screen. Why do people always underestimate the creativity of classic players?

[Mosotti]

Most things listed there exists already as addons and will exist regardless. These are not the things that concern most people, but things like spec balancing, mounts at level 20 and so on and so on...

So? Why you saying that like it is a bad thing? They said Classic Wow not Vanilla Wow, Hell i do not think Blizzard ever dropped the word Vanilla

You must be deaf then.

[Vaelorian]

And that is why a lot of the purists are so toxic and against community feedback / changes

Honestly if you want changes to happen aside from a few bugfixes, vanilla should be left the way it is. I don't think people should be toxic to one another. But seriously imagine that you asked for a certain feature in a specific way right? You asked for it because the current feature that was derived from the earlier version of said feature... is not up to your level of fun.... So finally the company that produced that feature.... says: sure guys we hear ya.

In comes someone who starts bombarding the company for that same feature.... but with changes... which in turn will leave you with something that you battled so hard for to be changed into the very feature you disliked...

[Thrax]

They said Classic Wow not Vanilla Wow, Hell i do not think Blizzard ever dropped the word Vanilla

"Vanilla means vanilla"

"Some of you prefer vanilla"

Hmm, I wonder what they meant by Classic WoW.

[Scrysis]

Standard phrases from people who've obviously never played retail vanilla. They can add all these stuff as default:

- Direct autoloot option (no need to press shift)
- Quest helping mechanic on your minimap and big map
- Loot table on the map for instances
- Coordinates on your map
- CC duration meter
- Mail many items at once
- Raid warnings when the boss is about to use a specific ability
- Direct information in-game with comments on how to attain specific items or attunements

And a lot more that would increase the quality of life in Classic WoW. You're going to be outraged if Blizzard add them? Because it would remove the vanilla experience?

No, it wouldn't. I'm sure you didn't even play vanilla or was too young to understand mods and addons, but to educate you I'll just tell you all these things were in vanilla.

In all of the guilds I played in, CC duration meter, Raid Warnings, Threat meter, damage meter etc were mandatory. Both in vanilla and TBC. When questie was released, it was hard to find someone not use it. When you did, you told them about it and they loved it and downloaded it right away to get some alts up faster.

Let's get something out of the way first -- if Blizzard changes Vanilla in ANY WAY, they're going to get major heat for it, and it's going to stir up all kinds of controversy. That alone should make you pause.

Second thing. I was there for Vanilla. I entered the game just two months after release, and I was there for prime raiding (not world firsts, but my guilds were not that far behind. . .).


But going ahead, I'm going to try and suspend some of my normal "classic" server cynicism and address these points one by one. . .

- Direct autoloot option (no need to press shift)

Okay, I can see this. I don't think this would significantly change the vanilla experience.

- Quest helping mechanic on your minimap and big map

Nope. A couple of reasons for this: it forces the player to actually read the text and/or seek help for this. Thottbot is gone, but all of the old information is still out there. And you can't tell me that there won't be a separate section for Classic on WoWHead, because there most certainly will be. If players don't look up the information online, they'll be forced to ask their fellow players. THIS is the vanilla experience -- being forced to interact with other players. A lot of people look forward towards this kind of interaction, and by adding quest helpers, you're taking it away from them.

- Loot table on the map for instances

HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT WE HAVE MAPS FOR DUNGEONS. WE GOT LOST IN SUNKEN TEMPLE FOR FIVE HOURS AND ENJOYED IT, SO MUST YOU. Okay, I'm joking -- okay, maybe not at the getting lost in Sunken Temple for five hours part. Vanilla didn't even have maps for instances, which was hilarious for some of the dungeons.

So this comment has two parts. I'll address each part separately.

So I'm going to say okay to dungeons and raids having maps. Getting lost in dungeons serves no positive purpose.

No to loot tables. Loot tables in game will encourage people to just farm specific bosses for gear instead of doing the whole instance. Sure, they'll have it available online, but that forces them to actually look stuff up. The lazy will have to just do the bosses. That means more people complete the whole instance. Think of it as a side benefit of not having loot tables.

- Coordinates on your map

Nope. Read the quest text or ask someone. Not having coordinates forces more interaction, which is what a lot of people want.

- CC duration meter

Nope. You already have a little debuff circle on your target. You don't need a separate one on your player screen. Vanilla mechanics are very simple by today's standards. You don't need to make it even easier than it is.

- Mail many items at once

Doesn't significantly change the core experience, so okay.

- Raid warnings when the boss is about to use a specific ability

HELL NO. Raid mechanics are ridiculously simple in vanilla by comparison to today. Not to mention that bosses would frequently have a cast bar for a number of abilities. And even more of them had specific animations. Extensive boss mods like BigWigs or DBM aren't really needed for vanilla. Don't dumb down the mechanics more than they are. Unless Blizzard specifically blocks it, you'll probably have a mod for the mechanics in about a week, and then everyone will go back to complaining about how fast they're finishing the old raids.

- Direct information in-game with comments on how to attain specific items or attunements

No. If you need information on items or attunements, you should either look it up online, or ask your fellow players. By putting that stuff as a separate interface in game, you eliminate important player interactions. Hell, if I had an in-game text explaining to me about entering Molten Core, I would have missed out on one of the funniest experiences where it took my guild ten minutes to convince me to jump out a window. (And subsequently, someone else dying horribly because they thought they were attuned and weren't. . . ) Putting that stuff in game deprives players of an integral experience.

to understand mods and addons, but to educate you I'll just tell you all these things were in vanilla.

In all of the guilds I played in, CC duration meter, Raid Warnings, Threat meter, damage meter etc were mandatory. Both in vanilla and TBC.

A lot of mods didn't show up until late vanilla, so a lot of people experienced raids without them. The saying "wait for three sunders" came about simply because at the time there weren't threat meters.


Chances are that enterprising mod makers might write up mods for the Classic servers, so some of your requests are moot anyways. And some people would argue that even the some of the stuff I said okay to WAS the vanilla experience, warts and all. I know that some really long dungeon runs resulted in friendships or connections. . . all due to getting lost.

I think that Blizzard should stay on the safe side and not make any QoL changes, simply because it could change the core experience that a lot of people are looking for.

[Deleted]

Not having coordinates forces more interaction, which is what a lot of people want.

This point sounds really weird to me.
I've played since launch and when someone asked where something was, people would just tell them the coordinates. This was as soon as an addon for coordinates existed. Everyone had this, and if you didn't, you'd just download it as soon as someone told you some coordinates. Nobody I know actually searched for something in a quest for more than a few minutes before just looking it up.

A lot of what people want will just be made moot by addons. It's just like TC said - all of these things that the purists are fighting against already existed in Vanilla and were heavily used. There were addons at the time, and they significantly changed how the game was played.

[hakujinbakasama]

I'd wager that more of the nostalgia and better status of Vanilla reins from the social dynamic than game quality. The glaring problem being that the social dynamic is unlikely to return.

[Deleted]

I'd wager that more of the nostalgia and better status of Vanilla reins from the social dynamic than game quality. The glaring problem being that the social dynamic is unlikely to return.

Can you develop this argument any further?

[hakujinbakasama]

Can you develop this argument any further?

You mean other than the near mountainous obvious elephants?

[Deleted]

You mean other than the near mountainous obvious elephants?

Oh please, put the elephants in there too.