Vanilla Haters: "keep the game as buggy as possible" 'Its not Vanilla if.."

[dusselldorf]

The arguments are rather sophomoric. I am intrigued with the idea of vanilla on blizzard servers, and will definitely play it. What they choose to do with it is their business. If I enjoy it, I'll play until I tire of it and move on, like every other game in the world. As far as fixing bugs, to my mind the best course of action is fixing blatant bugs that were never intended to be a part of the game and were not in the developer's original vision, provided that fixing the bugs doesn't take away from the nostalgic experience. That's admittedly a judgment call, and I cast no aspersions against those who fall on either side of the line I'm drawing here. At the end of the day, I'm not a developer, and I'll gladly pay the artists and developers for the fruit of their talents and play the game, evaluating for myself on a personal level. To make any claim that anyone's subjective viewpoint is correct to the exclusion and detriment of all other viewpoints can't legitimately be labeled as anything more meaningful than an abject manifestation of the inferiority complex derived from anyone investing too much into a digital fantasy playground that does not exist in reality and has no meaningful impact on anything of value.

[Coffeexbean]

Why?

It's either vanilla or it's not. If you asked for vanilla and now you want more than you asked for the wrong thing. You asking for more is the problem. It's what ruined this game expansion over expansion. The more more more, easier easier easier mentality.

you arent the one to make that choice lol. asking for more is not what ruined the game. I wish we could have new content with the same social systems and grind in place. There is more to wow. Certain gameplay features were added over expansions that ruined it like flying and crossrealm but thats not what Im asking for

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So you want to go back to 1.0 but not THAAAAT much back.

You are everything that is wrong with this community.

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Yes, you guys are good as crybabies.

Yea I want what modern WoW should be , the original game with additional content and features but not the shitty overhaul that transformed it into what it is now.

[Temis]

I think that the people who have been asking and fight for Vanilla servers, some since the launch of TBC, want Classic servers to be as close to vanilla as possible with no changes. If you believe that these people have no idea what they are asking for you are delusional because alot these people who have been playing on private vanilla servers for years.

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If you want new content you have no reason be on a Classic server, the Classic server should be about the old content that so many people want and have asked for. If you want new content with non shitty game play you need to talk to the retail WoW devs.

[MMKing]

What i want is to be transported back in time. The next best thing is to have the game run from patch 1.0 to 1.12 with ALL of the changes, minus the bugs. Though this is a dream.

What i will be quite happy with is patch 1.12, with the most significant content such as world bosses, raids, dungeons, item changes, reputation factions etc gated behind a time schedule. It's simply too unreasonable to expect that Blizzard will start off, time in memorial, in patch 1.0. Then add, remove and swap around quite literally thousands of changes if not tens of thousands of changes to the client.

So in short. Gate the significant content and changes, and under no circumstances add anything to the game that was released after patch 1.12. Bug fixing and language fixing excluded.

[Temis]

What i will be quite happy with is patch 1.12, with the most significant content such as world bosses, raids, dungeons, item changes, reputation factions etc gated behind a time schedule. It's simply too unreasonable to expect that Blizzard will start off, time in memorial, in patch 1.0. Then add, remove and swap around quite literally thousands of changes if not tens of thousands of changes to the client.

So in short. Gate the significant content and changes, and under no circumstances add anything to the game that was released after patch 1.12. Bug fixing and language fixing excluded.

This is my dream, I dont even want to experience 1.0 talents.

[Bizerk]

[/U]
Spotted the WoD baby. You weren't there for Vanilla, but here's a secret.. it had years worth of content. It'll take an average working person roughly 6 months to level, with plenty of endgame content to last another 6 months. Then they could roll an alt and do it again. Then switch factions. Then try a pvp server/world pvp. Endless content.

Sorry there's no max level boost

Your post is so lacking in net detective skill its hilarious. It would not be that hard to learn of my wow history if you actually bothered to try. To say that Vanilla has years of content is so ridiculous that I can hardly believe you are serious. First of vanilla's lifetime was at its whole only 2 years. If you take away staggered content releases and add in the vast amounts of information online, the quality of 2017 addons and the fact that its really a much simpler game mechanically and it would be a stretch to say that getting to naxx would take any longer than half a year to a year simply because of gear requirements. If it really took you 6 months to get to 60 then I wouldn't brag about it because it really didn't take more than 2-3 weeks even back in 2005 which I know from actual experience.

[Demithio]

It's weird that the vanilla haters and the purist private server community are actually on the same side of this. They both want the game to be as flawed as it was from 2004 to 2006 but for two completely different reasons.
Hopefully Blizzard realizes that there's a middle ground to be had where bug/exploit fixes and smaller QoL changes can be made for the betterment of the game.

Yes it is kind of funny isn't it. One wants its doom because they know it will likely (eventually) fail in pure form, and the other will have it no other way.

[Mahogany]

I agree with your point, but by the time that specific thing was fixed for example, there were many many other changes. What if one of those changes (bloodlust/heroism to pick one out of the air) is the reason the bug was fixed? What trumps what, does the fix not go in or does the bug get squashed but shamans (and horde only in Vanilla) get a skill that was not present until TBC....

What does fixing Blink bugs where you fall through the world (or don't move forward at all) have to do anything with Bloodlust which wasn't in Vanilla?
I'm litterally talking about unintended bugs that were fixed after Vanilla

Blink Bugs
Warrior Charge Bugs
Places where you would fall through the world
Get Feared into walls & die...

These are bugs that were never intended for Vanilla. They have nothing to do with spells but more how the world is created.

[Aggrophobic]

So tired of seeing comments from Vanilla haters telling a community of a game they arent going to play, how to play it. There are Vanilla purists and we can understand why and there are people who want to remaster the game without touching the actual gameplay of grinds, social communities and so on. No body misses Vanilla WoW for its bugs/exploits, the specs with really bad balance, and so on. "If you change that then its not Vanilla" " you guys think you do but you dont, its not vanilla anymore if you do that" "if you want that then play retail"

Call it French Vanilla if you want but stop being dumb lol its a totally different game than retail and the changes people want to make to Vanilla do not make it retail nor take the fun or essence of what made Vanilla wow what it is. Look how well Pokemon was able to take its classic games and remake them while keeping the spirit of the game intact. Pokemon remakes go overboard by introducing new mechanics from new Pokemon games which is not what people are asking for, moreso the aesthetic appeal and small qol changes like picking loot up automatically.

If you arent going to play vanilla, dont give your opinion about it because it doesnt affect you and no ones cares. Imagine someone ordering a food you dont like the taste of and telling them how to enjoy it, what toppings to put on it, how to cook it. fuck off please. You have your own version of Wow to worry about and now is the best time to try and get your flying mounts at lvl 1, destroy factions, remove leveling, and have WOD with mythic+ a thing

"You asked for Vanilla thats what your getting" , clearly Im asking for more

No one is asking for a buggy game but the "bad balance" you speak of is part of what made vanilla, vanilla.
If you want to balance, say paladins to be raid tanks (the were not design for this) then you will have to rebalance all calsses, redo all items and redesign raid bosses. That would make the game into something that is not even close to what the game was back then.
Every class had its role back then but not all specs were designed to be used in raiding.

You can not "balace" the specs and keep the gameplay as it was. It will ruin the game.

It should be what it was at the end of vanilla and nothing more. No tuning, no changes, just keep it the way it was.

[Lochton]

So tired of seeing comments from Vanilla haters telling a community of a game they arent going to play, how to play it. There are Vanilla purists and we can understand why and there are people who want to remaster the game without touching the actual gameplay of grinds, social communities and so on. No body misses Vanilla WoW for its bugs/exploits, the specs with really bad balance, and so on. "If you change that then its not Vanilla" " you guys think you do but you dont, its not vanilla anymore if you do that" "if you want that then play retail"

Call it French Vanilla if you want but stop being dumb lol its a totally different game than retail and the changes people want to make to Vanilla do not make it retail nor take the fun or essence of what made Vanilla wow what it is. Look how well Pokemon was able to take its classic games and remake them while keeping the spirit of the game intact. Pokemon remakes go overboard by introducing new mechanics from new Pokemon games which is not what people are asking for, moreso the aesthetic appeal and small qol changes like picking loot up automatically.

If you arent going to play vanilla, dont give your opinion about it because it doesnt affect you and no ones cares. Imagine someone ordering a food you dont like the taste of and telling them how to enjoy it, what toppings to put on it, how to cook it. fuck off please. You have your own version of Wow to worry about and now is the best time to try and get your flying mounts at lvl 1, destroy factions, remove leveling, and have WOD with mythic+ a thing

"You asked for Vanilla thats what your getting" , clearly Im asking for more

I'm not hating vanilla but people chanting for it and then demanding things that weren't there, that isn't vanilla. I'm all for bug fixes and exploit fixes, the rest I expect you to live with.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

and im so tired of vanilla people in general. i dislike you as much as the horde guy hates us high elf qq'ers.

i have fond memories of video games passed, but never really yearn to go back and play them. especially a 13 year old game.

i feel this way about wow, mario, duck hunt, mortal kombat, street fighter, so on...

[Triks]

Heh, indeed.

I can't recall ever seeing a Legacy screecher make his case along the lines of "It was amazing apart from these few things that I'd love for Blizzard to address!".
It's always been more along the lines of "Muh Vanilla best Retail Normies stfu REEEEE!!"...

That being said, bugfixes are probably a must.
But balancing? Hell no. Balancing according to 2017 standards wouldn't exactly make it the Classic experience.

I don't want balancing handled by Blizzard because they have proven time and time and time and time again to get it disastrously wrong based on a couple of forum whingers. All of the arguments FOR class balancing have been made by people who either barely played the game or haven't played it at all. "Adjusting the numbers" doesn't work when you have entire specs that can't function without their TBC abilities and talents.

Good luck DPSing as a ret without wings (on-demand burst) and CS (an actual attack instead of white hits). Even if you give prot paladins a taunt you still haven't solved their mana issues and you still haven't given them actual defensive CDs. Do you know why even in TBC prot warriors were the defacto main tank even if bears weren't so gear-bound and prot paladins could keep aggro better due to how they worked? A prot warrior could either Spell Reflect the Pyroblast from Kael or eat it with Last Stand+Potion. A prot paladin would die.

This isn't getting into the discussion on creating entirely new items for these specs and putting them in bloated loot tables. This isn't getting into the discussion on how it would affect server economies if you have OP tanks AOE-grinding everything in sight. This isn't getting into the discussion on how it would affect PVP. This isn't getting into the discussion on how it would affect raiding if you have ferals replacing rogues and boomkins replacing mages/locks because you suddenly have far more utility for the same damage and you have 6 extra battle rezers.

I might give this a thought if it was done by someone like Mike Preach or Kungen or anybody from a top guild that understands how the classes played in Vanilla. From a couple of forum heroes - no chance.

[NihilSustinet]

So tired of seeing comments from Vanilla haters telling a community of a game they arent going to play, how to play it. There are Vanilla purists and we can understand why and there are people who want to remaster the game without touching the actual gameplay of grinds, social communities and so on. No body misses Vanilla WoW for its bugs/exploits, the specs with really bad balance, and so on. "If you change that then its not Vanilla" " you guys think you do but you dont, its not vanilla anymore if you do that" "if you want that then play retail"

Call it French Vanilla if you want but stop being dumb lol its a totally different game than retail and the changes people want to make to Vanilla do not make it retail nor take the fun or essence of what made Vanilla wow what it is. Look how well Pokemon was able to take its classic games and remake them while keeping the spirit of the game intact. Pokemon remakes go overboard by introducing new mechanics from new Pokemon games which is not what people are asking for, moreso the aesthetic appeal and small qol changes like picking loot up automatically.

If you arent going to play vanilla, dont give your opinion about it because it doesnt affect you and no ones cares. Imagine someone ordering a food you dont like the taste of and telling them how to enjoy it, what toppings to put on it, how to cook it. fuck off please. You have your own version of Wow to worry about and now is the best time to try and get your flying mounts at lvl 1, destroy factions, remove leveling, and have WOD with mythic+ a thing

"You asked for Vanilla thats what your getting" , clearly Im asking for more

I fully plan on playing classic, but not if they "balance" a single spec, and not if they release at version 1.12.

[Millyraynge]

Original vanilla offers way too much stuff which doesn't attract people anymore. Quite the opposite. The "CWOW" will definitely have QoL features compared to the original state. There isn't a single successful pure non-QoL pirate server around, because this state of the game does not work anymore.

[Niwes]

what is the problem in just fixing bugs without changing anything ? dont get why there is even a discussion about it. just fix the bugs and bring vanilla as it is.

at maximum just slightly balance raw dps/hps output numbers, via spell values in DB, without changing stuff/classes/mechanics/spells. there is zero problem in that. only to prevent some outliers like feral or sp are not totally useless. there is exactly 0 problem with that, bc its not to make all perfect balanced, nor to change classes in any way. its just to calm down the outliers a bit.

after that, stop. and deliver classic at what it is: classic.

[Triks]

what is the problem in just fixing bugs without changing anything ? dont get why there is even a discussion about it. just fix the bugs and bring vanilla as it is.

at maximum just slightly balance raw dps/hps output numbers, via spell values in DB, without changing stuff/classes/mechanics/spells. only to prevent some like feral or sp are not totally useless. there is exactly 0 problem with that, bc its not to make all perfect balanced, nor to change classes in any way. its just to calm down the outliers a bit.

after that, stop. and deliver classic at what it is: classic.

Please refer to my post.

[Aphrel]

My main worry right now is serverpopulation. If they increse the server population from what it was in vanilla, i feel like they really need to also implement dynamic spawnrates of mobs/Qitems/herbs/veins, else its not going to be a vanilla experience anymore, its gonna be a clusterfuck of competing for tags and two ruined professions.

[PaterMDx]

just to piss of everybody I would add the option to classic, wich option? let me tell you ESC->interface->quickloot.
hahaha the whine would be epic. purists would be like"omg it isnt classic anymore, you QOL faggs that was adden in BC!!21212!"
and the QOL dudes would be like"dafaq thats not what we wanted, we knew how to shiftclick"
hahahahaha, if i had a saying that would be the only thing i would change, or like Ion would say"keep the memes goin"

and to that one morron who said that retries where shit back then: l2p mate, you just wear different armor, but you rape later on. and i dont mean prepatch.

[NihilSustinet]

Original vanilla offers way too much stuff which doesn't attract people anymore. Quite the opposite. The "CWOW" will definitely have QoL features compared to the original state. There isn't a single successful pure non-QoL pirate server around, because this state of the game does not work anymore.

depends on what the "QOL" is. dual spec is a deal breaker, "class balance" is a deal breaker. id be ok with mass mailing, even guild banks, optional updated graphics.

[Triks]

just to piss of everybody I would add the option to classic, wich option? let me tell you ESC->interface->quickloot.
hahaha the whine would be epic. purists would be like"omg it isnt classic anymore, you QOL faggs that was adden in BC!!21212!"
and the QOL dudes would be like"dafaq thats not what we wanted, we knew how to shiftclick"
hahahahaha, if i had a saying that would be the only thing i would change, or like Ion would say"keep the memes goin"

and to that one morron who said that retries where shit back then: l2p mate, you just wear different armor, but you rape later on. and i dont mean prepatch.

It's spelled "moron" and "were" you absolute cretin.

Here's a video of a ret with Tier 2.5 (a set that was lauded for being "great" for rets) in Naxx and on Patchwerk where a ret could also use Exorcism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEs9coe5XRg

He celebrates getting 9-th. Rets were good in PvP and that was it. With gear past MC they could dump on people in PvP because GM/HWL gear is MC gear but without completely awful itemisation and Naxx gear is as good as TBC Level 70 Normal dungeon blues, if not certain HC dungeon items.