They shouldve kept max level at 60 through expansions

[Nheme]

They should've never raised the level cap above 60 for expansions. Instead, for every new expansion they should've made the new content so that you could level 1-60 on the new continent (or maybe tie it into the original content where the new content was to level from 30 to 60).

This would've avoided that feeling of jumping over the small leveling hurdle (10 levels) and removed the "it's only about the end game"-mindset.

Of course they would have to look at the current 60s and what to do about them being able to start gearing for raids. Maybe they wouldve had a timed release of dungeons before opening the raids? Attunements? Maybe the wait time would make people with 60s try to level up an alt through the new content while waiting for the next instance to open up?

Also profession leveling would send players through the new content.

[Sylv_]

They should've never raised the level cap above 60 for expansions. Instead, for every new expansion they should've made the new content so that you could level 1-60 on the new continent (or maybe tie it into the original content where the new content was to level from 30 to 60).

This would've avoided that feeling of jumping over the small leveling hurdle (10 levels) and removed the "it's only about the end game"-mindset.

Of course they would have to look at the current 60s and what to do about them being able to start gearing for raids. Maybe they wouldve had a timed release of dungeons before opening the raids? Attunements? Maybe the wait time would make people with 60s try to level up an alt through the new content while waiting for the next instance to open up?

Also profession leveling would send players through the new content.

What do you get for playing through new zones then? Nothing. No one would play.

[Blamblam41]

GW2 does that, and they still have the "Endgame is the only game that matters mindset" with raids and fractals (Which are essentially mythic+ on a better system.)

Yall are tryin' too hard.

[evogsr]

What do you get for playing through new zones then? Nothing. No one would play.

That would indicate people only play just for the sake of leveling up? Really?

[Hunterwep]

The level cap increase to 70 was the biggest buzzkill in my entire life of gaming.
And I've been playing since age of 7 on my NES.

[Constraint]

Completely disagreed with the OP.

At some level, subconsciously for the less personally aware, there's more sense of accomplishment and long-term satisfaction if you feel you've pushed through something, gained something through effort. Something as simple as killing some mobs, clearing some areas and seeing a number rise a few levels provides this for many.

I believe this is why many people claim to have felt a little more attachment to their characters in earlier expansions, when levelling was actually a chore and pretty damn time consuming. Nowadays you can just P2W a char to 100 and then spend a couple of relaxed hours in heirlooms et voila, a new 110.

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The level cap increase to 70 was the biggest buzzkill in my entire life of gaming.
And I've been playing since age of 7 on my NES.

Fair enough, everyone's different. For me it was the start of a new adventure, and it felt great to me.

[Sylv_]

That would indicate people only play just for the sake of leveling up? Really?

Think about it.
People play through zones because they level in a zone. When they outlevel a zone, they move on to a new zone and begin content there.
What is causing the players to play through the zone? What signifies advancement? Sure, it could be linear story but there is no sense of accomplishment.

What are the players being given that allows them to know when they are done with a zone? There is zero direction without a progression aspect.

[evogsr]

Think about it.
People play through zones because they level in a zone. When they outlevel a zone, they move on to a new zone and begin content there.
What is causing the players to play through the zone? What signifies advancement? Sure, it could be linear story but there is no sense of accomplishment.

What are the players being given that allows them to know when they are done with a zone? There is zero direction without a progression aspect.

I don't have to think about it. This is exactly what Guild Wars 2 is. After 80, which was the original level cap or release to current day (2 expansions / 5 years), there is no more leveling. There has never been some large outcry to increase the cap in that game, be it on the forums or otherwise.

[time0ut]

Raising the level cap and invalidating all existing content is the easiest way of maximizing the number of people that buy the new expansion on release. In hindsight, I think it was a terrible design decision.

[Koward]

They should have kept the whole game in mind in updates. And take care to not render things obsolete. Obsolete content = content that may as well not exist.
I'm not sure that automatically translates into never pushing the level cap though.

I like the example idea of "clearing Naxx before being able to cross the Dark Portal". It's a simplification of course because then you would have problems in Outland (like populations), but it illustrates a bit this concept of never bypassing any content.

I don't think they would have sold BC so well however.

[Bigcountry11782]

They should've never raised the level cap above 60 for expansions. Instead, for every new expansion, they should've made the new content so that you could level 1-60 on the new continent (or maybe tie it into the original content where the new content was to level from 30 to 60).

This would've avoided that feeling of jumping over the small leveling hurdle (10 levels) and removed the "it's only about the endgame"-mindset.

Of course, they would have to look at the current 60s and what to do about them being able to start gearing for raids. Maybe they would've had a timed release of dungeons before opening the raids? Attunements? Maybe the wait time would make people with 60s try to level up an alt through the new content while waiting for the next instance to open up?

Also, profession leveling would send players through the new content.

maybe give us a reason why you don't like that they increased the level cap.You give no reason why increasing the level cap is bad you just give ways to change it.Increasing the level cap gives you a sense of furthering your character.I hope you don't like that they raised the level cap simply because of nostalgia for vanilla.The level cap is such a trivial thing to complain about.If you go through the content it just part of the game.Complaning about something that has been common place in the game for years does nothing but waste space in the forums.

To be honest I feel like you just don't like leveling alts maybe?I don't like it either but its just part of the game.

[hulkgor]

They should've never raised the level cap above 60 for expansions. Instead, for every new expansion they should've made the new content so that you could level 1-60 on the new continent (or maybe tie it into the original content where the new content was to level from 30 to 60).

This would've avoided that feeling of jumping over the small leveling hurdle (10 levels) and removed the "it's only about the end game"-mindset.

Of course they would have to look at the current 60s and what to do about them being able to start gearing for raids. Maybe they wouldve had a timed release of dungeons before opening the raids? Attunements? Maybe the wait time would make people with 60s try to level up an alt through the new content while waiting for the next instance to open up?

Also profession leveling would send players through the new content.

I just think they are pushing expansions too fast. It's too much effort just to push box sales.

They could just keep expansions going with more content patches easily, with less game disruption, and actually have more relevant end game throughout. It's known they didn't expect as much success and longevity, hence why they got rid of most of the 'baddies' and finished storylines in the first 3 expansions (Arthas, Illidan, Deathwing, Vashj, Kael'thas, bla bla bla). Had they expected this and they could have had 'extended' the storylines for a while.

They can just keep the expansion going by adding zones, dungeons, raids, world events, add pvp areas, etc, but as a natural progression. No need to force box sales for an extra 30€\$ per player, but that ship has long sailed and it's unthinkable to change model at this point.

I'll just say i'd be glad if Classic and TBC would have lasted 1 more year each, AT LEAST. It was too short for all its content as it was. One reason why it worked though, was there wasn't just one active tier of raiding at one time, they were all relevant, with every guild at various steps. Some were working through Black Temple, others were working through SSC\TK whilst new ones were just starting with Karazhan or going 25man with Gruul, etc. Now? Only one tier is relevant, it's a "GOGOGO" mentality that actually hurts the game and speeds up stagnant content.

[Thimagryn]

What do you get for playing through new zones then? Nothing. No one would play.

IMO, the way it should have worked is having all content relevant to the EK and Kalimdor, while every expansion's content should have been a self-contained event. Statistically, all end-game gear is good enough to do the content. Your progression through the New Zones would be collecting gear with stats that are specific to the Raid Content; like Holy Consecrated gear for ICC or Demon Soul Essence to fight Deathwing. These stats would only be relevant to the Raid and Zone, and wouldn't modify your end-game stats in any form.

Instead of adding brand new zones for leveling like in current, they would revamp an existing zone with a world event leading up to the new Raid content. That's how Vanilla worked with most of its end game content, like revamps to silithus or adding dire maul to Feralas and zul'gurub to Stranglethorn. So if Northrend was the new expansion, then revamp Western/Eastern Plaguelands as the staging point for an expedition to Northrend. The challenge of open world content remains scaled to you and you don't need to grow in power; the rewards you earn are relevant to surviving in the raid longer and being able to attempt harder content. Let's say Western Plaguelands 'invasions' provide gear/augments that lets you attempt the first couple bosses in ICC before you're forced out. Better drops let you resist better thus last longer in the raid. The only gearcheck is the one for Content-related stats, which makes content balancing that much easier.

I think the GW2 model would work great for a reimagined 'Classic+' that keeps the content focused on the Vanilla world but forever adding more and more content at the same level of challenge. Stats wouldn't have to be inflated every content expansion while all the feeling of progression still happens through gaining gear with content-specific stats. The rest of the new Zone content could be tuned into a giant sandbox that works like Timeless Isles; just a place to explore and rep grind or do content with people who just like doing stuff in the area. New world events could be added ever so often to get people to revisit those zones, and the content would still remain challenging.

I think all content should be relevant to the old world continents while any new zones be self-contained. The new zones should only be there for a linear experience that ultimately drives you into the dungeons and raids, but is otherwise completely optional. If you don't like a certain zone or a certain raid, you don't have to do it; just like in Vanilla.

[Sylv_]

IMO, the way it should have worked is having all content relevant to the EK and Kalimdor, while every expansion's content should have been a self-contained event. Statistically, all end-game gear is good enough to do the content. Your progression through the New Zones would be collecting gear with stats that are specific to the Raid Content; like Holy Consecrated gear for ICC or Demon Soul Essence to fight Deathwing. These stats would only be relevant to the Raid and Zone, and wouldn't modify your end-game stats in any form.

Instead of adding brand new zones for leveling like in current, they would revamp an existing zone with a world event leading up to the new Raid content. That's how Vanilla worked with most of its end game content, like revamps to silithus or adding dire maul to Feralas and zul'gurub to Stranglethorn. So if Northrend was the new expansion, then revamp Western/Eastern Plaguelands as the staging point for an expedition to Northrend. The challenge of open world content remains scaled to you and you don't need to grow in power; the rewards you earn are relevant to surviving in the raid longer and being able to attempt harder content. Let's say Western Plaguelands 'invasions' provide gear/augments that lets you attempt the first couple bosses in ICC before you're forced out. Better drops let you resist better thus last longer in the raid. The only gearcheck is the one for Content-related stats, which makes content balancing that much easier.

I think the GW2 model would work great for a reimagined 'Classic+' that keeps the content focused on the Vanilla world but forever adding more and more content at the same level of challenge. Stats wouldn't have to be inflated every content expansion while all the feeling of progression still happens through gaining gear with content-specific stats. The rest of the new Zone content could be tuned into a giant sandbox that works like Timeless Isles; just a place to explore and rep grind or do content with people who just like doing stuff in the area. New world events could be added ever so often to get people to revisit those zones, and the content would still remain challenging.

That seems like an awful and boring game. I wouldn't play it, that's for sure. I absolutely hated GW2. I felt like I had no direction or purpose. End game didn't feel great either. I want a new adventure, I don't want to continue an adventure.

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I don't have to think about it. This is exactly what Guild Wars 2 is. After 80, which was the original level cap or release to current day (2 expansions / 5 years), there is no more leveling. There has never been some large outcry to increase the cap in that game, be it on the forums or otherwise.

GW2 is complete shit and garbage, though. Others enjoy no leveling, while others enjoy it.
I enjoy leveling and the feeling of progression that happens.
There could be better design for old world to still make content relevant, but all in all, GW2 is shit and the way it plays was mega boring.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Idk about all expansions but I was certainly hoping bfa was gonna discard leveling. It's such a waste of time right now.

[evogsr]

GW2 is complete shit and garbage, though. Others enjoy no leveling, while others enjoy it.
I enjoy leveling and the feeling of progression that happens.
There could be better design for old world to still make content relevant, but all in all, GW2 is shit and the way it plays was mega boring.

But that's the thing. That's just your opinion, and obviously a couple million players disagree with you.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

5 levels for each expansion would have been my go to, instead of 10 levels.

We got to level 110/120 too fast in my opinion.

[frogger237]

I don't have to think about it. This is exactly what Guild Wars 2 is. After 80, which was the original level cap or release to current day (2 expansions / 5 years), there is no more leveling. There has never been some large outcry to increase the cap in that game, be it on the forums or otherwise.

gw2 still has lvling its just a different name called mastery points and exp.

[evogsr]

gw2 still has lvling its just a different name called mastery points and exp.

It's a similar system, but it's not traditional leveling. Mastery is account wide. You can't really compare that and leveling up an individual character based on that alone.

Some Mastery tracks can be overlooked entirely as well. You can't say that about leveling a character and expecting to participate in whatever "end game" it offers.

[Thimagryn]

That seems like an awful and boring game. I wouldn't play it, that's for sure. I absolutely hated GW2. I felt like I had no direction or purpose. End game didn't feel great either. I want a new adventure, I don't want to continue an adventure.

WoW has always been continuing an adventure. The current linear progression is more about that than actually going on a new one.

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It's a similar system, but it's not traditional leveling. Mastery is account wide. You can't really compare that and leveling up an individual character based on that alone.

Some Mastery tracks can be overlooked entirely as well. You can't say that about leveling a character and expecting to participate in whatever "end game" it offers.

The problem I had with Mastery is that it wasn't goal-oriented enough. WoW's system is clearly goal-oriented, whether it's leveling or gearing up ILVL. It feels progressive because you know what you want to obtain for the content you're doing. Masteries hit dimishing returns; at a certain point, you don't really feel the need to get the ones not required for the content. It feels very optional and made for completionists rather than being something that feels critical to the content's progress.