If a game needs mods to be good, is it a bad game anyway?

[Afrospinach]

and one retard run.

I am just wondering how many people have zero ideas what you are talking about here hehe.

[pateuvasiliu]

Skyrim is a prime example of this. I can't play it in its base game, it's so horribly bad. With mods it becomes the best RPG ever made.

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I am just wondering how many people have zero ideas what you are talking about here hehe.

1 Intelligence char?

[YUPPIE]

I am just wondering how many people have zero ideas what you are talking about here hehe.

I honestly can't recall ever having seen such a feature as the low intelligence playthroughs before FO1/2.

That said, while the dialogue options are funny to see on Youtube I found an actual blind playthrough with 1 INT hellishly anti-fun for various reasons and didn't bother with FO2's (though I heard it's a lot better)

[cparle87]

I am just wondering how many people have zero ideas what you are talking about here hehe.

I'm guessing it would be like a naked mage or beyond naked mage run in Diablo 1, where you don't invest in points or use good gear.

[Afrospinach]

1 Intelligence char?

Yeah exactly, for those that don't know your character gets unique dialogue that is nigh monosyllabic and some people take pity on you so it is almost an advantage lol.

[YouWillAllAnswerToSithis]

I'm currently playing Skyrim: LE, and while the game is beautiful with baseline HD textures, some mods are just needed. I'd rather have mods available for customization though, but that's me. Outside that, some games do need mods to fix issues that developers overlook. I mean look at WoW and Advanced Interface Options...

[pateuvasiliu]

The only advantage of Skyrim Remastered is that it has better stability. Vanilla has way better mods.

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I don't think tes or fallout are good moded either.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/8429/?

This mod alone makes it contend with Witcher 3. I'm a huge Witcher fanboy, but Skyrim's mods are out of this world. So many, doing so many things.

[Video Games]

The only advantage of Skyrim Remastered is that it has better stability. Vanilla has way better mods.

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https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/8429/?

This mod alone makes it contend with Witcher 3. I'm a huge Witcher fanboy, but Skyrim's mods are out of this world. So many, doing so many things.

Zzzzzzz open world games. I hope the meme ends soon, but I'm a feared we're just gonna get trash overwatch clones for the next few years instead. Save me jrpgssssss

[pateuvasiliu]

Zzzzzzz open world games. I hope the meme ends soon, but I'm a feared we're just gonna get trash overwatch clones for the next few years instead. Save me jrpgssssss

JRPGs are horrible though.

[Video Games]

JRPGs are horrible though.

Lol. I'll take fun combat and good music over walking around an empty world and left clicking every few minutes.

[pateuvasiliu]

Lol. Iol take fun combat and good music over walking around an empty world and left clicking every few minutes.

Most of us don't like ridiculous anime combat.

As for music, Witcher 3 shits all over any other RPG, Naruto online or whatever you play included.

[Video Games]

Most of us don't like ridiculous anime combat.

As for music, Witcher 3 shits all over any other RPG, Naruto online or whatever you play included.

Well yeah i don't expect most gamers these days to handle pressing more than one button to attack anymore. Also nah, music in witcher 3 is fine but there is no better ost than nier automata right now.

[pateuvasiliu]

Well yeah i don't expect most gamers these days to handle pressing more than one button to attack anymore. Also nah, music in witcher 3 is fine but there is no better ost than nier automata right now.

Implying hack and slash games take any amount of skill whatsoever.


Even Dark Souls for all of its fanwank is not hard at all.

[Video Games]

Implying hack and slash games take any amount of skill whatsoever.


Even Dark Souls for all of its fanwank is not hard at all.

Play kingdom hearts 2 level 1 critical and tell me it doesn't then, lol. Plus it's not even about skill, it's about something to actually do.

[mvaliz]

If a thread title needs F-bombs to be pogniant, is it a shit thread title anyway?

Just sayin' ;P

[Sunseeker]

If it NEEDS mods to be GOOD then the inverse would be that without mods it is bad. So, yes.

Personally, I've never found Bethesda's games to be very exciting in their raw forms. Their strengths have always been 1: do whatever the fuck you want and 2: add whatever the fuck you want.

[Cosmic Janitor]

No. I'd say minecraft for example is an okay game on it's, a platform that offers a couple of hours of gameplay for the average person before it gets too boring. With mods on the other hand, it becomes a brilliant game for those that are into it, that love to build their own - well what ever mods you have installed.

As for skyrim, I had plenty of fun with the base game and frankly most mods I could never get into. Most look just weird or like baby's first asset flip.

[Tech614]

Most of us don't like ridiculous anime combat.

As for music, Witcher 3 shits all over any other RPG, Naruto online or whatever you play included.

Generic western composition is better then good music?

Kay.

Witcher, ES and literally every form of western fantasy be it game, movie or TV show all have the problem of their music being generic as fuck and always sounding the same.

Witcher 3 is a great game, it's certainly not because of the generic western fantasy OST.

Oh and for the guy claiming JRPGs aren't hard, I doubt you would get past the first act playing an SMT or FE game on the hardest difficulty.

[Gadzooks]

I have enjoyed in the past few months various runs of Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, two fully good and evil PTs for both and one retard run.

I greatly enjoyed these games despite their age, but my first run of FO1 was in its raw Steam state. It wasn't until after it I figured out there were two restoration project mods for FO1 and 2 and played them with those since and took some glimpses and reading at what the differences were other than playing. The amount of content differing from default to modded is so staggering it's insane and, looking into New Vegas, it looks like the same thing will be obviously necessary.

So the question I have is if a game can really be called good or not if its salvation is through these sort of fan mods, being unplayable or barebones otherwise.

I don't agree with your premise - none of the Fallout games are "unplayable" in their released, unmodded state. I think the problem is more your expectations are skewed and unrealistic, and you're holding an arbitrary and fictional standard to them. I played F3, NV, and F4 in their unmodded states on release, and enjoyed them. The ability and priviledge of modding has only made them better, and a free way to keep them playable almost a decade after their release, in F3's case.

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Okay, I'm just gonna say this right now. Fallout 3, New Vegas, Oblivion, and Skyrim are all GREAT games without mods. If they weren't do you think they'd have such dedicated modding communities? No. Do mods make them better? Of course, but I think it's absolutely fucking ridiculous that because Bethesda helps modders out so much in supporting their game that they get shit on for it. Why do you think no other developers put out modkits?

Take any developer. Nintendo, Naughty Dog, From Software and give their fanbase a modkit and they're going to make changes that a lot of people like. Does that mean that those developers or their games are shit? Of course not. Modders have the luxury of their work being optional and they also aren't held to the same standards.

Anyways, rant over.

This.

A great example is obvious here - World Of Warcraft. You can play the game as it's downloaded, or you can redo the UI to your heart's desire. Customization is not a flaw. Some games thrive on it, like WoW, or builder games like SimCity and Cities Skylines that have huge modding communities to make a great game even better.

I can't think of any games that are "unplayable" without mods - unless you apply a snooty elitist filter.

[Silver Forte]

If a game NEEDS mods to fix problems the devs are either unwilling or unable to fix, yeah it's shit. Take games like Minecraft, Starbound and Terraria. Sure, if you play them whitelisted or only with friends, they're okay. But usually we had to rely on thirdparty software to fix things or add things much needed that the devs couldn't be bothered to. Things like proper admin tools. If you look at Starbound, there are many issues in the game they know about but don't want to fix, like water and rain leaking through solid objects if they're not rendered or on screen. Or the fact that there were (a couple years ago) several wrappers made by fans to allow hosts to kick/ban people, protect terrain and ban certain items. Or you have games like Project Zomboid where guns exist but are basically useless because firing them attracts hordes of zombies from great distances, negating the purpose of using a gun. A mod adds silencers to fix this. Now guns are viable. Simple, stupid issues that could easily be fixed being overlooked, stuff that common sense would tell a person "hey, this isn't good and should be changed" are issues I usually mod out. If a developer can't be bothered to correct dumb shit like what I mentioned, then mods become necessary to alleviate headache.

The whole bukkit bullshit with Minecraft is testament to how little devs care once the money starts rolling in.