[SPECULATION] Queen Azshara of Zin'Azshara, the first ever mutated Zandalari Troll?

[vertigo12]

What again to be true? That regeneration is biological or Loa thing? Because from the context of your reply it appeard to be the latter. Which I said got retconned again.

It is both. The Legion event of Vol'jin's death might be a proof that the Loa of death allowed him to die this time around not unlike in the scenario in MoP.

It has been suggested that there were rulers before Azshara, so I'm not sure why you'd think she would know this stuff.

Who were they? What are their names and aside from Queen Azshara why aren't they venerated as much as her or why aren't there any statues erected for them in anywhere the Night Elven civilization could be?

Alternatively other legends imply that Night Elves descended from the offspring of Elune, she herself appearing to be Night Elf in form. By this legend, it would explain how Night Elves share such similar physical appearance with Dryads, and Keepers of the Grove.

Now I believe that the experimentation with the Wild Gods and Trolls must have been the half-humanoid species such as Dryads, Centaurs and Keeper of the Groves. Basically Druidism is a strong link that is shared by Troll and Kaldorei ancestry. This could possibly what can we find inside the Raid of Uldir.

- - - Updated - - -

Incorrect. The high elves' pale skin came LONG before the Sunwell.



https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf#R...E2.80.99Thalas

Please, learn to actually read up on your lore before you continue to make a fool of yourself.

I don't want to be rude like you but kindly review the basic skill of reading and comprehension. But thanks for your effort and supplying the needed material, allow me to even disprove your claim even more.

"Around this time, they had become completely severed from the life-giving energy of the Well of Eternity. This meant that they were vulnerable to the elements and had not received immortality from Nozdormu and the World Tree. They had shrunk in height and their skin had become a peach hue similar to most dwarves and humans. "

to your "Incorrect. The high elves' pale skin came LONG before the Sunwell." Your quote was part of a longer paragraph under the title Founding of Quel'thalas.

[huth]

I don't want to be rude like you but kindly review the basic skill of reading and comprehension. But thanks for your effort and supplying the needed material, allow me to even disprove your claim even more.

"Around this time, they had become completely severed from the life-giving energy of the Well of Eternity. This meant that they were vulnerable to the elements and had not received immortality from Nozdormu and the World Tree. They had shrunk in height and their skin had become a peach hue similar to most dwarves and humans. "

to your "Incorrect. The high elves' pale skin came LONG before the Sunwell."

Sunstrider led the high elven fleets across the world for many long years. Their goal was to find places of considerable ley power for them to build their new homeland. After landing on the Lordaeron continent, they moved inland and formed a settlement in the Tirisfal Glades. After a few years, however, many were driven insane. The belief at the time was that something evil slept beneath the Glades, so the high elves abandoned the region and moved northwards.

Around this time, they had become completely severed from the life-giving energy of the Well of Eternity. This meant that they were vulnerable to the elements and had not received immortality from Nozdormu and the World Tree. They had shrunk in height and their skin had become a peach hue similar to most dwarves and humans.

*cough*

They didn't create the Sunwell until after they were already tiny and pink, which had happened before they even reached Quel'thalas.

[Syegfryed]

i hope not, im already ick of this "chosen one" and "special one" shenanigans

[EbonBehelit]

Who were they? What are their names and aside from Queen Azshara why aren't they venerated as much as her or why aren't there any statues erected for them in anywhere the Night Elven civilization could be?

Azshara was pathologically narcissistic. She had the capital of the Quel'dorei Empire renamed after her, so it's not at all a stretch to say that she would've also had any statues of prior monarchs replaced with her own image, so as not to distract from her own glory. In her eyes, only Azshara was worthy of such dedication.

[Doffen]

Why stop there? Why not make her the original raptor that turned into the first troll? Or even better, why not make her the very first conscious being on Azeroth? That will make her secret history even more edgy.

I've laughed so much of this thread now and the sarcasm you deliver is awesome.

We all getting trolled here. Oh wait!

[Cosmic Janitor]

I doubt that she is that old.. at least there were never any hints towards it and the presence of the old gods seemed not familiar to her when she went down with the well of eternity. If she had been around for the millenia before the high time of the nightelves people I would have expected her to act differently. She seemed more like the spoiled kid that got born with a golden spoon up her ass, like she has never know anything as mundane as trolls.

But that obviously means nothing. Blizzard could retcon this tomorrow or in 20 years for all we know.

[vertigo12]

I doubt that she is that old.. at least there were never any hints towards it and the presence of the old gods seemed not familiar to her when she went down with the well of eternity. If she had been around for the millenia before the high time of the nightelves people I would have expected her to act differently. She seemed more like the spoiled kid that got born with a golden spoon up her ass, like she has never know anything as mundane as trolls.

But that obviously means nothing. Blizzard could retcon this tomorrow or in 20 years for all we know.

Above all living Night Elves still being alive and witnessed the dawn of there civilization, someone and somebody else has to know about that past. It could be deeply hidden. It could have been a taboo. And I think the rightful individual who deserves fingers being pointed at him/her would be no other than Azshara herself. It seems for whatever reason Azshara was brought down to the depths of the Abyss along with whatever information or secret and truth about the Night Elven civilization. The whole of our community knows NE were once Dark Trolls. But that is just the surface, we haven't scratched deeper as to what we know is only skin deep.

One thing I'm sure of. She is definitely older than Malfurion, Tyrande and even Illidan. Who knows her age might be even closer that of Velen's?

I'm not quite sure with "the old gods not being quite familiar with her" way of thinking. Old gods themselves would be somewhat closer to Azeroth's, the titan's age, if not older so it means prior to every living creature that was given life the old gods knew about them. There is even an Il'gynoth quote Flesh is a gift that someone else not Azeroth as the creator.

They seem to be always ahead of the game. Two even three steps ahead. Even Titan fail safe installed in Azeroth and even the watchers/keepers appear to be laughable at their incompetence.

It's quite fairly odd that the old gods would strike a bargain with Azshara at the time of their desperate point in time as if the old god offering salvation or means of staying alive was timely. They might even knew about Azshara drawing the attention of Sargeras. Though they are imprisoned they are aware, always watching. Who knows it might not be even Elune that drew the Dark trolls close to the Nightwell but behind that it might have been the most cunning of all old god. We know that power is seducing, it can transform and can change someone drastically specially who is power hungry and though the offer might be really good, something evil is masked behind such intention.

Dark Trolls are not surface dwellers. They live in caves, in caverns and possibly even closer to Azeroth's core if an archeaological site could prove it. old gods embedded themselves deep within Azeroth. THey manage to live an thrive like a cyst or tumor deep within someone's body.Their whispers are stronger. It echoes and reverberates.

- - - Updated - - -

Azshara was pathologically narcissistic. She had the capital of the Quel'dorei Empire renamed after her, so it's not at all a stretch to say that she would've also had any statues of prior monarchs replaced with her own image, so as not to distract from her own glory. In her eyes, only Azshara was worthy of such dedication.

If she has such impulse, what could have caused it? What would be her underlying motive? Who would be that prophet that states that NE's with golden eyes are born for greatness when Darkspear trolls themselves have golden eyes and has traits closely related to that of NEs.

[huth]

One thing I'm sure of. She is definitely older than Malfurion, Tyrande and even Illidan. Who knows her age might be even closer that of Velen's?

She is, but by centuries at most. Velen meanwhile has been alive for millenia and already fled Argus when the first trolls turned into Night Elves.

You have a very poor grasp of lore.

- - - Updated - - -

If she has such impulse, what could have caused it? What would be her underlying motive? Who would be that prophet that states that NE's with golden eyes are born for greatness when Darkspear trolls themselves have golden eyes and has traits closely related to that of NEs.

And what do those first two sentences have to do with the last one?

[vertigo12]

She is, but by centuries at most. Velen meanwhile has been alive for millenia and already fled Argus when the first trolls turned into Night Elves.

You have a very poor grasp of lore.

- - - Updated - - -



And what do those first two sentences have to do with the last one?

here's a discussion about Malfurion's age and so i quote:

The Night Elf civilization numbers come from my old debates with posters. That's the only number that we had cracked down ages and ages ago.

I think even Kellick was involved, as he pointed out that the Twin Empire troll books didn't say that Trolls fell 16,000 years ago. Just that they existed, and with some time to build up before a massive expansion, or even before they could be called a civilization, we gave roughly 2000 years, and then MoP brought Azshara up to be Queen for about 12000,13000 years ago (the Lost Dynasty was what, ~13000 and it predated Azshara?), and we know Azshara ordered the well to be studied.

So 14,000 seems about right, and the MoP stuff only made it more certain. That, or Night Elves are a hell of a lot older, but didn't really move forward much, something I think is difficult when taking into account all the other empires in WoW at the time.

There is a reply next to it stating this:

Malfurion is actually a Dark Troll as he existed before the Night Elves.

http://wowpedia.org/Fileark_troll_concept_art.jpg

The string of events happened simultaneously. Remember Sargeras had reached Azeroth already by the time of Azshara's reign. They were already fighting demons and Illidan was offered demon sight. It only means that the Burning Legion already existed at that point in time. The exiled Manaari or Draenei are already living harmoniously with the Orcs of Draenor. Meaning Sargeras already have converted the Manaari to their Felstate or known as the Burning Legion. If the Warcraft movie is indeed connected to that of WoW's Draenei are already amongst Draenor's inhabitants and if you watched the film, they are being used as fuel for the Dark Portal so that the First Horde could invade Azeroth, Orcs vs. Humans.

And what do those first two sentences have to do with the last one?

The Golden Eye conspiracy wasn't used once but twice already from the history and perspective of Night Elven race and civilization. 1st was Azshara, second was Illidan.

[huth]

The string of events happened simultaneously.

Velen fleeing from Argus happened 25,000 years ago. The rise of the Night Elves happened 17,000 years ago. Velen was well over 8,000 years old when the Night Elves became a known force. Azshara wasn't even born at that point.

The Golden Eye conspiracy wasn't used once but twice already from the history and perspective of Night Elven race and civilization. 1st was Azshara, second was Illidan.

What does that have to do with the Darkspear? For Night Elves, golden eyes are exceptions, for Darkspear, it's just a normal eye colour.

[vertigo12]

Velen fleeing from Argus happened 25,000 years ago. The rise of the Night Elves happened 17,000 years ago. Velen was well over 8,000 years old when the Night Elves became a known force. Azshara wasn't even born at that point.



What does that have to do with the Darkspear? For Night Elves, golden eyes are exceptions, for Darkspear, it's just a normal eye colour.

There are two separate instances for both important events that has to do with Azeroth.

Argus event- 25k prior to 1st Azerothian War. After the 3rd War Draenei crash landed on Azeroth.

In that span of time Azeroth's own significant events happened. Ordering of Azeroth perhaps, Aqir wars etc, I'll reaserch more on the data later on.

There is a discussion about them on Chronicles I:Chapter 3.

THAT IS THE POINT. If Malfurion and/or Illidan and even Azshara have golden eyes and it is common for Darkspear Trolls who are almost closely related to Dark Trolls and it is a common trait amongst them, what could that possibly mean? A proof that NE are indeed or descended from Dark Trolls.

EDIT: Found something about Well of Eternity from In-game book

Ten thousand years before the orcs and humans clashed in their First War, the world of Azeroth cradled only one massive continent, surrounded by the sea. That landmass, known as Kalimdor, was home to a number of disparate races and creatures, all vying for survival amongst the savage elements of the waking world. At the dark continent's center was a mysterious lake of incandescent energies. The lake, which would later be called the Well of Eternity, was the true heart of the world's magic and natural power. Drawing its energies from the infinite Great Dark beyond the world, the Well acted as a mystical fount, sending its potent energies out across the world to nourish life in all its wondrous forms.

The Kaldorei, or night elves as they would later be known, worshipped the moon goddess, Elune, and believed that she slept within the Well's shimmering depths during the daylight hours. The early night elf priests and seers studied the Well with an insatiable curiosity, driven to plumb its untold secrets and power.

As the seemingly endless ages passed, the night elves' civilization expanded both territorially and culturally. Their temples, roads, and dwelling places stretched across the breadth of the dark continent. Azshara, the night elves' beautiful and gifted queen, built an immense, wondrous palace on the Well's shore that housed her favored servitors within its bejeweled halls.

It could possibly mean that by the time of 10k pre-1st War she was or is already queen.

[Engal]

Are you seriously considering that a troll female stepped on the shore of the WoE, was suddenly transformed into a night elf and claimed " i m queen azshara !" ?
Think vrykul. They mutated into human after a long transition and through reproduction.Dark Troll who gave birth near the WoE probably had baby who had different traits, who then had baby who graduately turn into elves over time and reproduction.
Though a new speculation could be that night elves were a product of whatever the titan experimented on uldis and broke free , like a troll experimented upon or something like that.

[alt-ithist]

You've gathered your facts and numbers and the numberspeaks for itself, thus my OP.

The difference between Kal'dorei Empire and Troll-Aqir War was just 1 millenium.
Rastakhan although not stated must be already be alive and the only historical records of him was his ascension as the Troll God King of all Troll sub culture.

Both the Trolls and Nightelves are immortal and can live several millenia although the Night Elves of present Kalimdor and Teldrassil gave up their immortality. And just like back in Throne of Thunder Raid patch the data above shows how the Zandalari Trolls are in political diplomacy with the Mogu empire of Pandaria which is just South of Zandalar.

Only Rastakhan knows or someone who is very old and who personally knows Rastakhan would have knowledge about his age and when he was born. His personal background and history as well as what is the past behind Dark Trolls.

Azshara couldn't have had any relation to Rastakhan, and she was not born as a troll.
-Not unlike Malfurion or Illidan, Azshara has no backstory of how she came to be, only in books like the Sundering but that timeline was under her reign already but not prior to it.

Perhaps the reason why the Nightborne easily sided with the New Horde of Sylvanas, they have knowledge and secrets about their origin and how the Night Elves in general are related with the Trolls.

Maybe Malfurion or Tyrande have knowledge as well and have kept it a secret, who knows. And why would a Titan Construct known as Uldir exist in the Zone of Zandalar?

Trolls are not immortal. Lei Shin has to extend the life span of the zandalari leader that was his ally and kept her on the hook for true immortality.

[huth]

There are two separate instances for both important events that has to do with Azeroth.

Which is completely irrelevant because the question is "how close is Azshara's age to Velen's". Not whatever nonsense you are on about.

THAT IS THE POINT. If Malfurion and/or Illidan and even Azshara have golden eyes and it is common for Darkspear Trolls who are almost closely related to Dark Trolls and it is a common trait amongst them, what could that possibly mean? A proof that NE are indeed or descended from Dark Trolls.

Darkspear have no particularly close relation to Dark Trolls. The Darkspear are Jungle Trolls like the Gurubashi.

You keep getting tripped up by your lack of lore knowledge and utter incapability of staying on topic.

[vertigo12]

Which is completely irrelevant because the question is "how close is Azshara's age to Velen's". Not whatever nonsense you are on about.


Darkspear have no particularly close relation to Dark Trolls. The Darkspear are Jungle Trolls like the Gurubashi.

You keep getting tripped up by your lack of lore knowledge and utter incapability of staying on topic.

They have something common and that is being a Troll. Of all the Troll subrace or culture the two are closely related. Darkspear trolls are Island Trolls. They can't be closer to the Drakarris because of their morphology as well as the climate they are more adapted to. Same as the Farakis or Sand/Desert Trolls. You are somewhat incorrect when you say that Darkspear Trolls are closer to Gurubashi but rather they are closer to Amani since Dark Trolls are also known as Dark Forest trolls. Who needs to study better now and have to research harder?

The dark trolls (also known as dark forest trolls)[2] are an elusive and mysterious subspecies of dark-skinned trolls that once lived on Mount Hyjal and several other scattered areas around the western and central parts of ancient Kalimdor. Notably, it was a group of dark trolls living on the borders of the Well of Eternity that evolved into the first night elves.[3][4]

i'd rather believe what I read more than you since I have been playing WCII and have been an avid fan of Warcraft merchendise. NE quotes for the Forest and not FOR THE JUNGLE.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you seriously considering that a troll female stepped on the shore of the WoE, was suddenly transformed into a night elf and claimed " i m queen azshara !" ?
Think vrykul. They mutated into human after a long transition and through reproduction.Dark Troll who gave birth near the WoE probably had baby who had different traits, who then had baby who graduately turn into elves over time and reproduction.
Though a new speculation could be that night elves were a product of whatever the titan experimented on uldis and broke free , like a troll experimented upon or something like that.

You know it for yourself. The aberration or mutation of one Vrykul couple having an offspring not looking similar to them was instantaneous. It all started out from that one instance and point in time. The rest was history for humankind or Azerothians.

- - - Updated - - -

Velen fleeing from Argus happened 25,000 years ago. The rise of the Night Elves happened 17,000 years ago. Velen was well over 8,000 years old when the Night Elves became a known force. Azshara wasn't even born at that point.



What does that have to do with the Darkspear? For Night Elves, golden eyes are exceptions, for Darkspear, it's just a normal eye colour.

Velen was busy with whatever dealings he had to do with Draenei Exodus and looking for a solution where would they find their new home. Basically Draenei as a race has no significance of Azeroth's own dealing. They are out of context not until after the 3rd War or their next escape from Draenor to Azeroth.

- - - Updated - - -

Trolls are not immortal. Lei Shin has to extend the life span of the zandalari leader that was his ally and kept her on the hook for true immortality.

Perhaps the right term would be close to being immortal because of their unusual racial of regeneration which can either be amplified further thus being close to immortality or if not by Human standards, an immortal.

I can give a healthy discussion if that's what you want. If debate and coarse words like rock salt is what you want, then by all means be my guest. I'll serve which ever you would prefer.

[huth]

They have something common and that is being a Troll. Of all the Troll subrace or culture the two are closely related. Darkspear trolls are Island Trolls. They can't be closer to the Drakarris because of their morphology as well as the climate they are more adapted to. Same as the Farakis or Sand/Desert Trolls. You are somewhat incorrect when you say that Darkspear Trolls are closer to Gurubashi but rather they are closer to Amani since Dark Trolls are also known as Dark Forest trolls. Who needs to study better now and have to research harder?

Drakari are morphologically similar to Amani, not Darkspear, who are more similar to Faraki or Gurubashi. According to your own logic, the Darkspear can't be related to Dark Trolls more closely than other Troll types.

Velen was busy with whatever dealings he had to do with Draenei Exodus and looking for a solution where would they find their new home. Basically Draenei as a race has no significance of Azeroth's own dealing. They are out of context not until after the 3rd War or their next escape from Draenor to Azeroth.

Which has what exactly to do with the question of the age difference between Azshara and Velen again? Also, you already responded to that one. Get your thoughts sorted.

[Polybius]

I doubt that she is that old.. at least there were never any hints towards it and the presence of the old gods seemed not familiar to her when she went down with the well of eternity. If she had been around for the millenia before the high time of the nightelves people I would have expected her to act differently. She seemed more like the spoiled kid that got born with a golden spoon up her ass, like she has never know anything as mundane as trolls.

But that obviously means nothing. Blizzard could retcon this tomorrow or in 20 years for all we know.

lmao. I know she's smart and clever but (when her time comes) I hope her overinflated ego is mocked by the current lore figures.

[huth]

Perhaps the right term would be close to being immortal because of their unusual racial of regeneration which can either be amplified further thus being close to immortality or if not by Human standards, an immortal.

I can give a healthy discussion if that's what you want. If debate and coarse words like rock salt is what you want, then by all means be my guest. I'll serve which ever you would prefer.

They can recover from injury faster. While this allows them to get closer to their maximum natural life expectation, it doesn't make them live any longer.


And you can't give a discussion if you wanted to. You can't even manage to consistently argue a single point.

[Cosmic Janitor]

lmao. I know she's smart and clever but (when her time comes) I hope her overinflated ego is mocked by the current lore figures.

I definitely hope we get some more details on her. So far the accounts are rather vague. I'd be interested to know more about her origins, if she had to claim that power or if she was just gifted with it. I guess they will have the decency to build her up a bit before we get to run her over in a mid tier garbage raid with copy-pasta ambiente.

[Polybius]

I definitely hope we get some more details on her. So far the accounts are rather vague. I'd be interested to know more about her origins, if she had to claim that power or if she was just gifted with it. I guess they will have the decency to build her up a bit before we get to run her over in a mid tier garbage raid with copy-pasta ambiente.

I hope so too. Was hoping BfA would be a South Seas proper expansion. 10 years waiting for Azshara, and they place her on the side like a loot pinata.