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  1. #61
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    I'd love to see posts like this for all the classes. I'm assuming we as a gamers got better over the years? Well I can read now atleast lol. Nice post very informative

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarfallz View Post
    What the goddamn
    Mages are absolutely brutal to level in vanilla. You can kill like 2 mobs before you go oom and have the lowest base hp in the game, and no amount of free 5-levels-too-low water/food will change that.

    ???

    Mages will kill between 10 and 25 mobs per pull. Leveling faster than someone doing quests at a reasonable pace and getting a ton of money during it.



  3. #63
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by solarfallz View Post
    What the goddamn
    Mages are absolutely brutal to level in vanilla. You can kill like 2 mobs before you go oom and have the lowest base hp in the game, and no amount of free 5-levels-too-low water/food will change that.
    pretty sure you never played a mage in vanilla

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Naralix View Post
    ???

    Mages will kill between 10 and 25 mobs per pull. Leveling faster than someone doing quests at a reasonable pace and getting a ton of money during it.


    You are in for a huge disappointment if you think you are going to be able to do that on any server that isn't absolutely dead. Especially since there are only a handful of areas that are suited for this.

    You will be pulling a few mobs then drinking for 40 seconds, I guarantee it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by fotmyo View Post
    pretty sure you never played a mage in vanilla
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...rd/vulcamagnon

    approximately 35,000 of my HKs on this character alone were during vanilla

  5. #65
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Never really considered Druid, I heard all they ever did was heal and I can’t even heal in live, let alone vanilla.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by solarfallz View Post
    You are in for a huge disappointment if you think you are going to be able to do that on any server that isn't absolutely dead. Especially since there are only a handful of areas that are suited for this.

    You will be pulling a few mobs then drinking for 40 seconds, I guarantee it.
    You're not wrong about the fighting for mobs to kill in the first few days/weeks of release, but mages can definitely still AoE grind so what you are saying is essentially pointless. If you didn't get hit, which if you played properly - you didn't - you don't have anywhere near as much downtime as you're claiming.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    You're not wrong about the fighting for mobs to kill in the first few days/weeks of release, but mages can definitely still AoE grind so what you are saying is essentially pointless. If you didn't get hit, which if you played properly - you didn't - you don't have anywhere near as much downtime as you're claiming.
    AoE grind is possible and viable on only a few very specific spots, you can't properly doing it if there are mages NPCs or any mob with ranged abilities

    And all the good spots will be over farmed by people and others mages trying to do the same shit as you : aoe

    At high end level (55+) only Silithus is quite empty but xp is quite bad to compare with WPL undead fields

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsumaki View Post
    AoE grind is possible and viable on only a few very specific spots, you can't properly doing it if there are mages NPCs or any mob with ranged abilities

    And all the good spots will be over farmed by people and others mages trying to do the same shit as you : aoe

    At high end level (55+) only Silithus is quite empty but xp is quite bad to compare with WPL undead fields
    Again, that doesn't alter what Naralix originally countered. Mages can still kill multiple mobs at the same time if they are in a decent area; single mobs are not a threat at all and it most definitely wasn't brutal any more so than any other non-pet class. Probably the easiest of any non-pet class, in fact. If you didn't let the mob hit you, which is very easy as a Frost Mage, as shown in the linked video (can do the same thing but with single target), then you have no reason to be worried.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    Again, that doesn't alter what Naralix originally countered. Mages can still kill multiple mobs at the same time if they are in a decent area; single mobs are not a threat at all and it most definitely wasn't brutal any more so than any other non-pet class. Probably the easiest of any non-pet class, in fact. If you didn't let the mob hit you, which is very easy as a Frost Mage, as shown in the linked video (can do the same thing but with single target), then you have no reason to be worried.
    As a mage, the only real threat is your mana bar, the aoe grind is very specific, talent-wise (you have to make choices that will impact your pvp game, such as Frostbite) and locations-wise, you can't just do it anywhere on each mob's quests, won't worth the mana spend (and somtimes you run just OOM with nothing killed), so most of the time, it's better to single kill each target

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    You're not wrong about the fighting for mobs to kill in the first few days/weeks of release, but mages can definitely still AoE grind so what you are saying is essentially pointless. If you didn't get hit, which if you played properly - you didn't - you don't have anywhere near as much downtime as you're claiming.
    You couldn't effectively AOE level for the entirety of Nostalrius' lifetime.

    And on a PVP server you can easily get boned during aoe pulls.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by solarfallz View Post
    You couldn't effectively AOE level for the entirety of Nostalrius' lifetime.

    And on a PVP server you can easily get boned during aoe pulls.
    I'm still waiting for you to actually reply to the part that matters, I'll reiterate:

    You CAN AoE farm where and when possible; this is not always possible, it has nothing to do with the main point of these replies. AoE farming was brought up to show you that Mages definitely can survive multiple mobs and don't have to drink after 2 mobs for 40 seconds like it's somehow any different to other casters.

    You CAN kill mobs 1v1 very easily, and it definitely isn't "brutal" relative to other classes. <<<< this is the point myself and Naralix was making.
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2017-11-24 at 08:58 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    I'm still waiting for you to actually reply to the part that matters, I'll reiterate:

    You CAN AoE farm where and when possible; this is not always possible, it has nothing to do with the main point of these replies. AoE farming was brought up to show you that Mages definitely can survive multiple mobs and don't have to drink after 2 mobs for 40 seconds like it's somehow any different to other casters.

    You CAN kill mobs 1v1 very easily, and it definitely isn't "brutal" relative to other classes. <<<< this is the point myself and Naralix was making.
    How is it not different to other casters?
    The other casters don't have to DPS race the mobs, which provides them flexibility on how they wish to use their mana. Wanding is a much more viable option when you aren't going to straight up die to the mob because you have PWS or a voidwalker taking all your damage.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by solarfallz View Post
    How is it not different to other casters?
    The other casters don't have to DPS race the mobs, which provides them flexibility on how they wish to use their mana. Wanding is a much more viable option when you aren't going to straight up die to the mob because you have PWS or a voidwalker taking all your damage.
    I already mentioned non-pet classes. We all know Locks & Hunters have it far easier in that regard.

    If you seriously think a Spriest has it easier than a Mage because they have PW:S then god help you. Most of the time Spriests used Wand because they went oom so easily, not just because they could shield+wand; PW:S breaks really easily and they don't really have any mobility/kiting tools besides Fear or Mind Flay (needs to be constantly channelled for the slow) at level 20. Mage can make use of wand too if they feel like it (Rank 1 Frostbolt for slow + wand to lazy grind without drinking).

    Honestly at this point the only reasonable explanation for you finding Frost Mage "brutal" relative to the other casters is either:
    -You didn't play any other classes (or had figured out the game by the time you did), or;
    -You suck(ed) at Mage (specifically the kiting/utility usage aspect of it)

    I don't mean to be rude, but honestly I don't see another explanation. So I'll let you decide which of the two above it is.

    For me, Frost Mage was honestly one of the easier casters to level (obviously Lock being the easiest overall caster, with only Hunter topping that).

    For anyone going to level a Frost Mage come Vanilla's re-release: Literally use the "AoE grinding technique" - AKA simply kiting mobs using your slows/roots/mobility - on single target (obviously swap Blizzard's for Frostbolt spam/Polymorph extras), and you will have zero issues. Most melee mobs die before they get to you due to Frostbolt's slow, if they get close: Nova > Frostbolt+CoC or Frostbolt+Fireblast for shatter to finish if you're level 29+, and/or Blink if you need to. Ice Barrier at level 40 makes it even easier, no more mana drain! Also as noted above, if you're super lazy and don't fancy drinking so often, you can rank 1 Frostbolt to kite and use your Wand.

    The only pain in the arse thing about Mages which was already mentioned by Solarfallz already - is that conjured water was absolutely shite.
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2017-11-25 at 12:11 PM.

  14. #74
    Druid tanks were OP for the 45-Minute-UD-Strat run.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    I already mentioned non-pet classes. We all know Locks & Hunters have it far easier in that regard.

    If you seriously think a Spriest has it easier than a Mage because they have PW:S then god help you. Most of the time Spriests used Wand because they went oom so easily, not just because they could shield+wand; PW:S breaks really easily and they don't really have any mobility/kiting tools besides Fear or Mind Flay (needs to be constantly channelled for the slow) at level 20. Mage can make use of wand too if they feel like it (Rank 1 Frostbolt for slow + wand to lazy grind without drinking).

    Honestly at this point the only reasonable explanation for you finding Frost Mage "brutal" relative to the other casters is either:
    -You didn't play any other classes (or had figured out the game by the time you did), or;
    -You suck(ed) at Mage (specifically the kiting/utility usage aspect of it)

    I don't mean to be rude, but honestly I don't see another explanation. So I'll let you decide which of the two above it is.

    For me, Frost Mage was honestly one of the easier casters to level (obviously Lock being the easiest overall caster, with only Hunter topping that).

    For anyone going to level a Frost Mage come Vanilla's re-release: Literally use the "AoE grinding technique" - AKA simply kiting mobs using your slows/roots/mobility - on single target (obviously swap Blizzard's for Frostbolt spam/Polymorph extras), and you will have zero issues. Most melee mobs die before they get to you due to Frostbolt's slow, if they get close: Nova > Frostbolt+CoC or Frostbolt+Fireblast for shatter to finish if you're level 29+, and/or Blink if you need to. Ice Barrier at level 40 makes it even easier, no more mana drain! Also as noted above, if you're super lazy and don't fancy drinking so often, you can rank 1 Frostbolt to kite and use your Wand.

    The only pain in the arse thing about Mages which was already mentioned by Solarfallz already - is that conjured water was absolutely shite.
    I levelled a mage, priest, and warlock to 60 in real vanilla. I levelled all other classes to at least ~30 in real vanilla as well.
    I levelled a hunter and mage on Nostalrius, and again had an alt of every class to mid-level. Levelled every class on Feenix but that was 12x xp so that's whatever.

    Mage is incredibly slow due to having no actual mana conservation mechanics and below-level conjured water. Priests have spirit tap + SWP-PWS-Wand. Warlocks and hunters have pets. Druids regen mana while shapeshifted and never need to stop killing mobs, similar case with shamans and paladins minus the shapeshifting. Rogues and warriors have to eat which is expensive and time consuming, so that sucks, though they have infinite damage-juice, which is nice.

    The fact that you said Ice Barrier is "no more mana drain" as if mana shield was ever actually a real option for levelling, suggests you PROBABLY haven't levelled a vanilla mage.
    Last edited by solarfallz; 2017-11-25 at 05:07 PM.

  16. #76
    Your whole post miss a big bold warning on top saying this is 1.12 pirate server and not a Vanilla experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naralix View Post
    - Druids are the easiest class to level after Hunters and Mages.

    You are not gear dependant and you have little to zero downtime and selfheal. You also get travelform and catform movespeed at level 20 to get around easily ontop of aquatic form for all the annoying water related things.
    Forms is great, but rest of this is just plain wrong.
    In general you need gear just as everyone else, just the stat stick weapon and fixed swing timer is really the difference.
    The problem gets there with how different things scale with different stats, and how "poorly" general gear was stat allocated in the real vanilla (pre 1.12).

    Hunters have in some ways easy leveling, never really feel the threat same way as others.
    But they have to level pets, pet abilities, (tamigotchi) feed it the right food, and actually keep up with all the pet bugs.
    In total this adds so much more to them that they for sure isn't easiest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naralix View Post
    - Druids is -THE- easiest class in Vanilla to gear up
    Regardless of role or spec you run as druid, you will always be raiding as support.
    In this sense, gear matters not so much so you can then state this.
    But it is not what people think you mean.

    Resto, balance and feral are all support in vanilla raid environments.
    -You wont stand out on meters or get picked for any other reason.
    -You wont have an easy time trying to improve by gearing.

    On 1.12 pirate servers gearing and leveling is a very different thing, very few people spent last weeks of vanilla leveling characters.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by epLe View Post

    Regardless of role or spec you run as druid, you will always be raiding as support.
    In this sense, gear matters not so much so you can then state this.
    But it is not what people think you mean.

    Resto, balance and feral are all support in vanilla raid environments.
    -You wont stand out on meters or get picked for any other reason.
    -You wont have an easy time trying to improve by gearing.
    I gotta disagree with the whole Resto was a support spec, an Innervate bot, secondary healer, etc. etc.

    Not to single you out, but I see these things repeated over and over again and honestly have to wonder what kind of experiences people actually had with Resto druids, if any.
    Is it more of a recent PS mindset, or did people happen to have some truly mediocre druid healers in their 40 man raid in original Vanilla, or perhaps bad raid leaders who did not know how to utilize them appropriately?

    My guild was semi casual, 4-5 place in server standing, never made it to Naxx, cleared most of TAQ - pretty typical for that time as far as raiding guilds go.
    From day 1 as a Resto druid, I was always neck to neck with our best Holy priest, with a Holy paladin consistently coming in as 3rd. Resto druids were put on tanks since their hots were more suited to offset heavy spike damage. Druid healing was more proactive as opposed to the more reactive style of the priests who hands down made superior all around raid healers. Paladins were very efficient spot healers with their fast flash heals.

    By 1.11, when Swiftmend was added to our repertoire, most of our druids were pulling ahead of the priests on the meters due to the quickness of their heals.
    Iirc, Swiftmend was added to the game due to the fights in Naxx where spike damge rose to yet another level.



    Of course peoples' individual experiences are anecdotal as the chance of raiding in more than one guild at the time were very slim.

    I don't tend to get upset when I read some of the things I read, I am just curious where the "druids were not good healers" misconception comes from.
    I remember pretty vividly the priest forum was always full of complaints regarding us druids and why on Earth should our healing be as good as theirs if our hybrid class has so much more to offer. Priests made similar complaints regarding Holy paladins back then as well.

    If I were to raid again in Classic, I'd totally roll a Resto druid all over again. It was a very satisfying spec to play in the raiding environment and one hell of a fun class everywhere else.
    Last edited by Eveningforest; 2017-11-25 at 06:30 PM.

  18. #78
    @Eveningforest

    I'm not gonna say that druids cant top the meters but you have to think about how much of your healing is actually overheals. Or in other words how much of it is wasted due to the target being healed up to full and your HoTs are still ticking. Druids being support is a fair assessment in my eyes. When I would heal in raids as Druid I felt like my job was to keep everyone topped off as much as I could so the Priest and Pallies don't go oom. For the most part I would keep a hot on people taking damage and when damage spikes would happen that's when it was time for the priests and pallies to do their jobs and we make it easier on them. Balance I felt like we supported the other casters by increasing their DPS with our +crit aura. I didn't play feral but they support melee damage with the +crit aura, or was that not added till BC?, and on the spot off tank if needed or if the main tank goes down and we need someone to jump in until we get him Battle Rezed back up.

  19. #79
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarfallz View Post
    What the goddamn
    Mages are absolutely brutal to level in vanilla. You can kill like 2 mobs before you go oom and have the lowest base hp in the game, and no amount of free 5-levels-too-low water/food will change that.
    The only problem when leveling a mage was getting 30yrds away from your target before engagement. Then i just kept using frostbolt rank 1 for slow in-between fireballs. 1 NPC couldn't be a possible threat for a mage unless you were fighting in a cave or something (even then you could abuse shitty pathing most of the time).
    2 targets wasn't a problem either as long as you could polymorph, or frost nova+blink you had plenty of time to "reset" the fight. Or you could tank it with your face, you'll still have to get your defense skill up at some point, better start early

    I agree with you that delusional people who think that "AoE grind is the way to level" are going to be disappointed tho. Not every day is pre-nax-event day. It was mostly used to grind gold, not exp...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    I'm still waiting for you to actually reply to the part that matters, I'll reiterate:

    You CAN AoE farm where and when possible; this is not always possible, it has nothing to do with the main point of these replies. AoE farming was brought up to show you that Mages definitely can survive multiple mobs and don't have to drink after 2 mobs for 40 seconds like it's somehow any different to other casters.

    You CAN kill mobs 1v1 very easily, and it definitely isn't "brutal" relative to other classes. <<<< this is the point myself and Naralix was making.
    Literally any class can AoE farm where and when possible (yes, even holy nova priests)... that's not a point at all. It's like saying "yes i am able to buy a Ferrari if i have enough money to do that".
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  20. #80
    High Overlord Thrax's Avatar
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    Easily viable as OT in 40 mans. We had one forever. He'd DPS/decurse when not OT while other Warrior OTs kept up Nightfall.

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