20 reasons why Vanilla was better

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I know you never played Vanilla by your answer

It really wasn't stuff took longer. The only hard part was not pulling extra mobs but they're were just target dummies and bullet sponges outside of that. In mist we got mobs that would one shot if spells weren't interrupted but Vanilla rare mobs were just gear checks. Someone in the best raid gear available could get 2 shot by rares back in mist.

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I know you never played Vanilla by your answer

Dungeons reward raid level gear and scale with item level. There was no reason to go back to dungeons in Vanilla once you had decent raid gear outside of a legendary quest or attunement.

I miss server communities and getting upgrades while leveling. I'd also wish they'd increase the difficult of leveling but decrease the time it takes. Adding scaling difficulty to dungeons would be awesome like Destiny 2 same thing with older raids. You could pvp, raid, quest, or do dungeons to level.

Leveling mobs could two shot people with specials and channeled attacks so interrupting was more important. Debuffs could be more dangerous and make leveling slower so avoiding them was more important. Sense warriors can't avoid physical debuff they only have negatives that effect caster but sense warriors have kicks and interrupt out the ass all ranged debuffs fuck warriors/melee damage instead.

[LanToaster]

Reasons

Lets see, as you didn´t mention "Better than What", I assume you mean Legion.
20) Night was dark and atmospheric
Agreed, the dark Nights were awesome. At some point I missed them.

19) no flying mounts
Nah, I can Walk when I want. And getting flight was awesome in BC

18) no twitter/facebook integration
Oo, Couldn´t care less. Doesnt affect me. What does it do to you?

17) leveling
Kinda, the first time Experience is great. Leveling a second was a torture.

16) blizzard did not appeal to the lowest common denominator like they do now, people argue about removing factions and having the game auto-play for them while they do the dishes
I do not agree they do. You still have your hard Content, but you have also easy content.

15) game was socialy encouraging
Agreed.

14) no ashran, Blizz wanted new AV and failed
Ashran wasnt the first zone that tried large scale battle and in the end kinda failed.

13) No inflated gold, go to AH today and everyone has 30k gold and no one is using crafting
Not much one can do about that, though.

12) no pay to win features, you can buy gold today and level capped characters
Wrong, you cant buy a level capped Character any more than you can in Vanilla.

11) dungeons were more relevant
Semi Agree, after running like a thousand times BRD, it sucks to just think of going there.

10) no heirloom,everyone has heirloom today, if you don't have heirloom, you get kicked out of the dungeon, no cc, no nothing just faceroll with heirloom
Never seen someone get booted for not having Heirlooms. But apart from that, agree.
Even though, they rebalance Hairlooms in BFA.

9) low level experience and progression,
You got that one as 17 already. Thats Cheating.

8) crafting, today professions are not relevant at all
You got Pointless crafting at 13.

7) pvp, today ratings are deflated
The Vanilla PVP model had flaws aswell.

6) no mission table and garrison which transformed the game into singleplayer
Its not Dreanor anymore.

5) endgame pve which does not suck,
Thats subjective. From current standpoint, I would feel Classic Endgame sucks.

4) you are a one of many players in an mmo, and not a king or hero of your own garrison where you don't interact with anyone
This feels like 15. But to expand on "Not a King", I actually like story Progression, and that your merits get noticed/respected.

3) abilities, today everything is squished
Dont really agree, while I miss some abilities I had in the Past, I like it more now.

2) no cross realm zones, CRZ makes everyone hate each other
This is also kinda like 15. CRZ make not people hat each other, it just doesnt encourage Social behaviour anymore.

1) Game is no longer about the overall experience with the end package. The journey to level cap was important, the journey of finding friends, the journey of building social packs, the working together, exploring zones.
You decide whats Important. If you like to venture out and journey through each zone, and make friends. Nobody stops you.
So: I Disagree on this aswell

Yeah I remember casting all those spells in vanilla, there was frostbolt, and sometimes you also casted frostbolt.

Hahaha, dont forget the 10 Minutes of Creating Water from before there was the Table.

20) Was there even day/night? Now it's dynamic. Show a comparison because I call bullshit on this.

There was, it wasnt really noticable, because its like today tied to the Actual Time. So when its night in your Region, its night ingame.
You dont feel it right now, because at some point they revamped the Lighting, and the Nights got much brighter.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160701054451
This is Westfall at night right now (I think, at least post Cata).
https://media-curse.cursecdn.com/att...20Westfall.jpg
This is Supposed to be Westfall in Classic.

Duskwood was at that time REALLY dark.

While the overall ambiente is better now, I kinda liked the really dark Duskwood, and the overall darker nights. Tanarais, and Barrens were also kinda nice at night.

[Deleted]

I know you never played Vanilla by your answer

strange, because I know he did by his answer.

[Grimlokh]

20) Night was dark and atmospheric

19) no flying mounts

18) no twitter/facebook integration

17) leveling

16) blizzard did not appeal to the lowest common denominator like they do now, people argue about removing factions and having the game auto-play for them while they do the dishes

15) game was socialy encouraging

14) no ashran, Blizz wanted new AV and failed

13) No inflated gold, go to AH today and everyone has 30k gold and no one is using crafting

12) no pay to win features, you can buy gold today and level capped characters

11) dungeons were more relevant

10) no heirloom,everyone has heirloom today, if you don't have heirloom, you get kicked out of the dungeon, no cc, no nothing just faceroll with heirloom

9) low level experience and progression,

8) crafting, today professions are not relevant at all

7) pvp, today ratings are deflated

6) no mission table and garrison which transformed the game into singleplayer

5) endgame pve which does not suck,

4) you are a one of many players in an mmo, and not a king or hero of your own garrison where you don't interact with anyone

3) abilities, today everything is squished

2) no cross realm zones, CRZ makes everyone hate each other

1) Game is no longer about the overall experience with the end package. The journey to level cap was important, the journey of finding friends, the journey of building social packs, the working together, exploring zones.

I`m taking a dump, I mean a huge dump, I`m at the 35 minute mark in the bathroom, and I`m probably will have to go to the hospital after finishing. I don`t have anything better to do, so I`ll bait.

Nope. 100% of what you just said is just fucked up memories of a game you think you know and played. I mean "engame pve which does not suck", "no pay to win features"???? what the actual fuck dude??? Anyway, I`m happy for you, that you`ll get your vanilla experience sometime in the future. Have fun playing 12 hours a day grinding the same fucking tiger to level half an xp bar.


Edit: I`m sure you will be glad to know I`m fine. Man that was a long dumping.

[Kallisto]

becuase blizzard destroyed wow by casualising it, so people left

Funny people like you say that when the two biggest sub losses happen when A) Dungeons and raids were considered too hard by the casual community in early cataclysm (plus the warcraft 3 story line followup from vanilla to wrath came to a close) or B) when there was quite frankly nothing to do for the non raiding casual community in what is known as Warlords of Draenor.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

20) Night was dark and atmospheric

http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screen...s-of-valor.jpg

19) no flying mounts

Careful who hears you say that around here lol. I am 100 percent for no flying for sure, so agreed!

18) no twitter/facebook integration

This is a really fucking stupid thing to bring up. Its not like the game is actually integrated. Its just a small thing you could enable if you want. Has nothing to do with the actual game.

17) leveling

Agreed, but optimistic about the leveling changes we will see in 7.3.5. That's the first time I've been excited to actually level characters in a LONG time. Classic is nice, but I'm really put off after having to do it so often on private servers.

16) blizzard did not appeal to the lowest common denominator like they do now, people argue about removing factions and having the game auto-play for them while they do the dishes

This is a pretty common misconception. Its quite obvious that they were TRYING to, comparing WoW to what was out at the time. But comparing Classic to now, obviously you'd be right. They absolutely were going for a casual MMO that anyone could play though. IE no exp loss on death + rested. Those were really big features on launch man.

15) game was socialy encouraging

Typically I'd agree but after playing Private servers for 5~ years I will say that I pretty much go way out of my way to avoid most players there. Lots of nonsense and toxicity, and so much greifing its absurd. In terms of end game, its not any different than Legion though.

14) no ashran, Blizz wanted new AV and failed

How did they fail? This one makes you seem a bit childish. Its not like they took AV out of the game. WoD was a failure all together, but there is no reason to be discussing Ashran, and at no point should people be saying more options is a bad thing in an MMO.

13) No inflated gold, go to AH today and everyone has 30k gold and no one is using crafting

This is very very wrong for multiple reasons. Go to the AH on LB and you'll see items up for 1k. That's AFTER they nerfed gold farming like 6 different ways when they were still elys.

12) no pay to win features, you can buy gold today and level capped characters

You can't actually buy level capped characters, and gold does not help you win anything. Winning would be buying 955 gear or something, which technically is possible, but just as possible in Classic if you know the right dude.

11) dungeons were more relevant

Objectively false.

10) no heirloom,everyone has heirloom today, if you don't have heirloom, you get kicked out of the dungeon, no cc, no nothing just faceroll with heirloom

There are actually heirloom type power gains in Classic. You can enchant White weapons and gear with the best enchants in the game, effectively giving you more stats than you would have for days played while leveling. Regardless, gearing and dungeons while leveling in legion is something that should not be being discussed. The game no longer focuses on leveling content, and it hasn't since TBC.

9) low level experience and progression,

That is unique about Classic for sure. I assume many people will disagree that that is a good thing here, but I too enjoy it occasionally. I much prefer the 60 content though.

8) crafting, today professions are not relevant at all

That's objectively false too. Please don't make shit up about the game if you haven't played it. You can craft gear right now that is 935 ilvl (5 better than Mythic ToS) and they can have any stats on it. There is also the Alch stone which is easily the best dungeon trinket in the game right now for many classes.

7) pvp, today ratings are deflated

That's just nonsense. What do you even mean by deflated? You aren't going to get away with such a childish statement. Ironically, Legion has gone back to the Vanilla style ranking system, and you are rewarded by visual rewards equal in my opinion to Classic. Otherwise, Legion has RBGs and Arenas. Things that don't exist in Vanilla, so again that makes it worse by default.

6) no mission table and garrison which transformed the game into singleplayer

The Mission table does not allow you to raid or do Mythic+ alone, so no it obviously does not make the game single player. These are getting a bit silly. Garrison is no longer a thing either.

5) endgame pve which does not suck,

Jesus christ, are you serious right now?

4) you are a one of many players in an mmo, and not a king or hero of your own garrison where you don't interact with anyone

You are still one of many players, but the game doesn't enforce this any more. The social structures sure do though. I'll tell you this, you'll feel way worse about your shortcomings in Legion than you will in Classic. Garrisons haven't been a thing for over a year now. Stop talking about that shit man, Blizzard knows they sucked.

3) abilities, today everything is squished

Squished lol. Did you mean to say "pruned?" Yes, compared to MoP things are heavily streamlined. Compared to Classic though? Is that a joke? You have dozens of rotational abilities and actual CDs in Legion that if you use improperly you will do no damage.
In Classic, you use 1-3 rotational abilities and use a potion every 2 minutes.

I miss things like buffs and stuff like that, but actual combat abilities have no comparison.

2) no cross realm zones, CRZ makes everyone hate each other

If there was no cross realm stuff in Legion the game wouldn't be playable so not much to discuss. You'll quickly realize why when they launch this Classic project and a few months in you are on a realm with 300 players.

1) Game is no longer about the overall experience with the end package. The journey to level cap was important, the journey of finding friends, the journey of building social packs, the working together, exploring zones.

The journey to level cap is no longer something they actively support, but they are making a huge change to attempt to fix that next patch. Otherwise, everything else is the same.
Exploring is RP shit though. That's not gameplay.


Seems like you didn't think this through very well. You probably should have just said 15, because a few of these are utter nonsense.
Embarrassed yourself pretty bad with the dungeon and pve comments too.
I love Classic too, but let's not make shit up to try to justify why we enjoy it, ok?

[exochaft]

One thing I do miss is that my OCD about completing things in-game could be sated back in vanilla and older versions of WoW. Currently, there's so much stuff to do and potential gear upgrades that I can never feel like I'm done for the moment. To me, the current WoW feels very much like Diablo 3 but with so much content that I can't feasibly do it all anymore. It's good for some people, but for a completionist it's just tiring and overwhelming.

[IIamaKing]

20 reasons, not one of em was "rose colored glasses".

[McNeil]

There's no use in telling others which game is supposedly ''better'' when peoples taste differ a lot. Both versions will have its strengths and weaknesses, and I can see both doing just fine.

[Chaelexi]

20) Night was dark and atmospheric

19) no flying mounts

18) no twitter/facebook integration

17) leveling

16) blizzard did not appeal to the lowest common denominator like they do now, people argue about removing factions and having the game auto-play for them while they do the dishes

15) game was socialy encouraging

14) no ashran, Blizz wanted new AV and failed

13) No inflated gold, go to AH today and everyone has 30k gold and no one is using crafting

12) no pay to win features, you can buy gold today and level capped characters

11) dungeons were more relevant

10) no heirloom,everyone has heirloom today, if you don't have heirloom, you get kicked out of the dungeon, no cc, no nothing just faceroll with heirloom

9) low level experience and progression,

8) crafting, today professions are not relevant at all

7) pvp, today ratings are deflated

6) no mission table and garrison which transformed the game into singleplayer

5) endgame pve which does not suck,

4) you are a one of many players in an mmo, and not a king or hero of your own garrison where you don't interact with anyone

3) abilities, today everything is squished

2) no cross realm zones, CRZ makes everyone hate each other

1) Game is no longer about the overall experience with the end package. The journey to level cap was important, the journey of finding friends, the journey of building social packs, the working together, exploring zones.

20) sure
19) I agree but I like the current design where you have to work for flying and it is provided midway through xpac
18) this will be in classic servers and not sure why this is an issue. Seems like grabbing at strings for a 20th
17) Nope leveling was aids in vanilla, quests had little to no story and there was no fluidity to leveling in vanilla. At times you would hit a point where grinding was your only option
16) not sure where the autoplay for you comes from.....there will never be that option
15) this is more a product of early internet gaming, the idea of a troll was a negative thing compared to now where it is just the normal. different generations of gamers
14) grabbing at straws as ashran is not current content and an attempt at "world" pvp
13) I will give you this one but back then if you understood mechanics and addon coding it was easy to control the AH in vanilla, I had 3 characters with max gold in vanilla.
12) these are not pay to win as the gear you can get from gold is not going to make you win, and level boosts is nothing more than skipping stale content that you can level through in 1 day played.....pay to win would be having the ability to buy Titanforged max level gear legally(because gear sales were a thing in vanilla just for smaller amounts of gold or larger amounts of real money)
11) I beg to differ, Mythic+ makes dungeons significantly more relevant as you can get raid quality gear from there... where as the only raid quality gear that came from dungeons in vanilla were a few trinkets and Quel'serar
10) it is 15 year old content that is old and not relevant anymore, people just want to power through it as they have done it 10000 times now
9) you mean when you are missing some key abilities and you use the wrong abilities because it is all you have as a prot warrior.....
8) the only reason professions were at all relevant were for resist gear crafting(i would beg to differ that crafted epics and legendaries are in the same level as the small window for resit gear), beyond it is still the 2 relevant professions alch and ench
7) Vanilla pvp ratings were terrible, I know I made it to Marshal and that took 10 hours a day for weeks on end to get and some horrible line waiting system that ensured who was gonig to be GM that week.
6) The Garrison did isolate people but the new rendition is significantly better but hey people asked for housing for a long time, they tried it and it did not work
5) The current endgame PVE is significantly better as there is more than a .5% of the player base that participated in the last raid of the expansion, even at the highest level. AQ40 and Naxx were test beds for new mechanics and raid styles but in the end the fights were very one trick and done. Thadius +- symbols, Gluth kite and kill chow, HuHu have 20 people with nature resit to absorb the nature shots. Can they do better of course.
4) Garrisons are dead, and this is a repeat.....see 6
3) Abilities were over parsed but there were a lot of abilities that were either poorly designed or never used
2) This is not CRZ's but the current gaming base, look at most MMO's or multiplayer games, MOBA's have toxic communities, FPS's people shit on bad player instead of helping them, MMO's you get in groups with bad players and they in fight. This was more a product of the player base being new to MMO's, remember WoW is a product of making MMO's mainstream and socially acceptable and at that time the player base was 16-25 year old that in many cases this was the first time entering a social online environment and in general were more socially conscious of their actions... I could have agreed that CRZ's have made it so the player base is impersonal but not that it makes you hate everyone that is just a poor blanket statement.
1) Honestly the journey for myself to 60 was not overly important, it was 12 days played that I was happy that was over so I could get into getting into the actual game. The leveling experience as with any game is there as a training grounds and this is why they have shortened it from vanilla as getting from 1-110 at vanilla (and the pace for each xpac after that) would be a 30 day played to 110 which would have people quitting.

[Plutarch78]

/looks at join date

Posting on a alt-account?

[MayhemPenguin]

Because BLizzard destroyed the game

Growing up and having a life, is blizzards fault? Oh shit

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This one gets underestimated a lot, and it signified Blizzard giving up on their own communication channels.

- Very few understand how fun it was to actually experiment with a spec, not run cookie cutter and still melt those who did so on meters.

You say this but I think you don't understand. Granted I started in BC but close enough, with the 30 point talent trees if you weren't using a cookie cutter build you weren't raiding and respecs started getting pricey so everyone looked up their spec and rolled with it.
Nowadays respeccing is free and yes I only have 3 talents a row but those talents matter depending on situation
Do I want a 2nd blink but risk getting stunned or Do I want a better Mana shield but less mobility etc.
I think nowadays you have more customization when it comes to talent builds, and with BFA which is adding 9 more rows of talents (3 on head, chest and shoulders)
Gameplay customization is at an all time high

[Frolk]

How is this cesspool of a thread still open?
Mods on coffe break? @Splenda @MoanaLisa pls

This is clearly flamebait, OP was prolly banned on main account, so went on to alt accoun to "post"

[Yamuri]

This post is one of the many reasons why I can't believe half the people that said they played in Vanilla. What a terrible list.

[Trapped]

To the OP:

MMO-C is mainly full of white knights for the game, and any negative posts usually result in flaming. I didn't start until very late Vanilla/Early TBC, but you do have some valid points. The main thing that was better back then, imo of course, is the social aspect. Servers had their own communities within the game, and guilds had their own communities within a server. CRZ, while seems good in theory, is/was an awful idea. Merged realms, while seeming good in theory, were an awful idea. There's no accountability anymore, and guilds just don't matter. The friendships and social bonds I made while playing were what KEPT me playing, even in dull times. The content didn't even matter. Blizzard no longer encourages players to be social or find a guild or anything like that. The biggest social experience many new/casual players get is LFR, and for all they care, they could be running it with 24 NPCs.

Also wanted to touch base on your #4 point. This is a big one for me. Maybe it was in MoP where we shifted from being a tiny peon, a nobody, that had to group up with other nobodies to beat the big baddies every expansion, to being a hero, a legend. I don't want to be the hero, I want to be the nobody again. Hell, in Legion, you're already a hero/legend before you even start leveling by going through your first artifact acquisition quest line.

[Enan1981]

First line, you pretty much lost credibility right then and there. Akin to Vanilla only? Did you not know when the dynamic night and day were implemented? Yeah get the hell out with that idiotic top 20. Did you even Vanilla bro?

[Disillusions]

I know you never played Vanilla by your answer

And judging by your entire post, I know you never did either op. This is among the dumbest post I've seen yet. My god

[RapBreon]

Indeed. Dungeons are a true, alternate form of progression now. In vanilla they were basically your compensation if you couldn't do raids.

Nah, if you care about having decent gear, you still need to raid for tier sets. It's almost at that point, just a tiny bit to go. The rest (even trinkets, some exceptions) is obtainable from M+ due to the massive pool of loot.

BfA should be interesting, raiding might be less effective than M+ at that point. Well, it already is, I dare say some trinkets and tier sets are the only real reason reward wise to raid. I'd be very curious to see how they keep raiding rewards relevant come BfA. Tweeks to Titanforging perhaps?

[Chaelexi]

Nah, if you care about having decent gear, you still need to raid for tier sets. It's almost at that point, just a tiny bit to go. The rest (even trinkets, some exceptions) is obtainable from M+ due to the massive pool of loot.

BfA should be interesting, raiding might be less effective than M+ at that point. Well, it already is, I dare say some trinkets and tier sets are the only real reason reward wise to raid. I'd be very curious to see how they keep raiding rewards relevant come BfA. Tweeks to Titanforging perhaps?

They already said some gear modifiers will be restricted to raid only.

[Amerrol]

I'm gonna play the vanilla servers, but your list is incredibly misinformed and nonsensical for the most part.