[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Cyclone Jack]

There is nothing that Star Citizen is doing that has not been done elsewhere. It is not ambitious...it is not ground breaking...it is not on the cutting edge. From serialised variable through FOIP to procgen planets and systems...all done.

While no single tech in SC is groundbreaking in and of itself, very few games, if any, are putting them all together in a single game. That, coupled with the scale and level of fidelity, is the ambitious part. If that isn't ambitious, then please, show me a game that was or is ambitious, show me a game that has already done everything that SC is doing.

Maybe CIG will somehow mange to make it all work. Maybe they'll be able to innovate or - more likely - copy mechanics from somewhere that'll make all these seemingly tedious mechanics work. Maybe - but so far there is no sign they're able to do that.

That's really the big question, whether or not the game is fun and engaging once all of the various mechanics get put into place. Trading and Combat have been done to death, so I don't think we can use those to determine how the rest of the game will turn out; though if they can't get trade and combat down then we have something to worry about. I don't think we'll get a good understanding on how things will pan out until all of the Mining mechanics are added to the game. That'll be the first real job or profession where CIG will be able to give the players a good understanding of how everything else is going to pan out, what mechanics they add to the game to keep mining interesting, engaging, and fun.

[CogsNCocks]

And I find the current gameplay far less engaging than Elite, so where does that leave us? It's subjective, it's wrong to declare it as though there is a "winner".

Elite Dangerous is great in VR, but the rest of it is like watching paint dry.

The short time I've had in the Star Citizen 3.0 PTU has been more fun than the entire grind to the Anaconda in Elite Dangerous waiting for the game to get "fun", a moment that never really comes. And then cringing at all the bad game design choices along the way.

It's the sandboxy nature of Star Citizen is where it's really going to shine.

[Miyani]

Damn that's a sexy ship, aegis hammerhead new concept ship. Covette.

[CogsNCocks]

While no single tech in SC is groundbreaking in and of itself, very few games, if any, are putting them all together in a single game. That, coupled with the scale and level of fidelity, is the ambitious part. If that isn't ambitious, then please, show me a game that was or is ambitious, show me a game that has already done everything that SC is doing.

The seamless transisition between space and planets/space stations, the physics grid which allows you to have ships inside of ships that you can walk around in while flying at tremendous speeds through space. All the while syncronizing this stuff to other players over the internet. That's what makes it groundbreaking. Features that have never been seen in a game before and yes it's all very cutting edge. Now, considering the great pains that has gone into developing this tech, we are very unlikely to see this stuff outside of Star Citizen for a very long time indeed. Unless CIG are kind enough to license the tech out or write some white papers to explain how they did it.

The procedual generation as a concept is of course nothing new, but the shear scale and detail of the procedual generation implementation in Star Citizen has never been seen before, especially the city stuff and CIG hired the best people in the industry to pull it off.

The people poo pooing Star Citizen are ignorant/low IQ at best, or trolls and Derek Smart lackeys at worst.

[1001]

Elite Dangerous is great in VR, but the rest of it is like watching paint dry.

The short time I've had in the Star Citizen 3.0 PTU has been more fun than the entire grind to the Anaconda in Elite Dangerous waiting for the game to get "fun", a moment that never really comes. And then cringing at all the bad game design choices along the way.

It's the sandboxy nature of Star Citizen is where it's really going to shine.

And I disagree, I don't play using a VR headset and I've put in 1000 or so hours since release. I do take regular breaks and enjoy other games though, I'm also part of a player group rather than just trying to do everything solo all the time, so we have quite events and stuff.

Perhaps the issue here is that you focused on the grind, gaining an Anaconda without playing the rest of the game. You see this quite a bit where people want money and big ships quickly so they head to the latest money making hotspot, bleed their eyes out jumping back and forth between 2 systems just so they can earn max credits per hour. No wonder they end up saying it's boring...

[CogsNCocks]

And I disagree, I don't play using a VR headset and I've put in 1000 or so hours since release. I do take regular breaks and enjoy other games though, I'm also part of a player group rather than just trying to do everything solo all the time, so we have quite events and stuff.

Perhaps the issue here is that you focused on the grind, gaining an Anaconda without playing the rest of the game. You see this quite a bit where people want money and big ships quickly so they head to the latest money making hotspot, bleed their eyes out jumping back and forth between 2 systems just so they can earn max credits per hour. No wonder they end up saying it's boring...

Maybe I should try finding a player group when I can stomach loading it up again

[Odeezee]

thought this looked really, really cool and i love that they are truly trying to physicalized not only objects but their interaction behaviors too!

Ursa Rover drifting on Yela

i can't believe i forgot this, but Galactic Gear is back, wOOt!!!!!

[KyrtF]

SO graphics look average? what other MMOs do you consider to have amazing graphics? just curious.

Whoever mentioned MMOs?

SCs graphics range from poor to very good. Depending on what you look at. But you just need to compare them with some of the games released today..or even in the past several years...to realise they ain't special no more.

That you felt the need to try and limit the selection to just MMOs to discredit a poster really shows that you agree. You could have just said you disagreed. But no...you tried to manipulate what I was saying.

As it is, you don't need uber realistic graphics to make things look great. That's part of why Star Citizens age is showing...realism looks great, but it ages quickly. Stylised graphics also look great, but they can be timeless.

So...yes. Average. Some look great...especially the planets. Some look bad...especially the characters. And a lot look average.

[Rennadrel]

Black Desert has some really nice graphics. But is also available for a while.

When I was watching your 4k Video...while it does look good..something about the artstyle felt kinda..idk..soulless to me. It was not really clicking for me

CryEngine based games all tend to look a little underwhelming unless the art team actually invests a lot of time in it, which a lot of art in SC is still placeholder and has yet to be finalized.

[Jastall]

SO graphics look average? what other MMOs do you consider to have amazing graphics? just curious.

They're certainly not average, but in this day and age they're not jaw-droppingly amazing either. Great looking for an MMO? Certainly, but great graphics don't count for much if the gameplay isn't good, or if the cost of said graphics is an overly expensive and/or poorly optimized game. Black Desert was head and shoulder above other MMOs graphics wise yet tanked hard due to having bad gameplay, or so I'm told at least.

[KyrtF]

While no single tech in SC is groundbreaking in and of itself, very few games, if any, are putting them all together in a single game.

Stuff like RaaT and Serialised variables are common. Stuff like FOIP adds nothing to the game and isn't new. Integrating different game styles into one is not the first time this has been done. SCs "scale" is one fourth to one tenth reality and fidelity is a matter of pixel density which is natural evolution at play.

There is nothing ground breaking here.

That, coupled with the scale and level of fidelity, is the ambitious part. If that isn't ambitious, then please, show me a game that was or is ambitious, show me a game that has already done everything that SC is doing.

ED, NMS, SWTOR, SWG, Dual Universe, GTA, Space Engineers...

SC has a lot of real estate...but that real estate is also mostly going to be procgen with nothing of interest. That's why SCs boast of scale is empty. ED can at least boast of having modelled the galaxy and handcrafti g it into a high degree of accuracy. NMS can at least boast of a huge number of worlds, even if they are mostly the same.

SC will have about 600 worlds, modelled at a scale of 1 to 4. And most of
those worlds will be empty because they'll be targets for exploration.

Claims of fidelity rest on an assurance that the rest of the gaming industry won't continue to improve. It further rests of the assumption that looking good requires a high number of polygons. Both assertions are false.

Innovation and being on the cutting edge requires CIG to actually innovate or be on the cutting edge...and they aren't. The tech and systems they hype up? Some of them are decades old.The best that can be said is that CIG added them into CryEngine...not that CIG invented or innovated them.

And when you say "putting them all together" you need to think whats being added. What's "unusual" or "unique" about SC is that CR is insisting on spending time on meaningless detail rather than development shortcuts that give the exact same result but optimise performance.

FPS often don't go for his unified model approach, instead using a pair of arms. But that's because it is a waste of resources to do so...there is no point forcing the computer to model something the player will never see.

CRs appriach is unusual....but it isn't groundbreaking or innovative. It's creating problems rather than solving them

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The short time I've had in the Star Citizen 3.0 PTU has been more fun than the entire grind to the Anaconda in Elite Dangerous waiting for the game to get "fun", a moment that never really comes. And then cringing at all the bad game design choices along the way.

It's the sandboxy nature of Star Citizen is where it's really going to shine.

That and all the grindy bits you hate from Elite.

Trouble is...ED tends to be grindy if you don't take advantage of what the game has to offer. You don't have to trade all the time...or fight...or mine....or do missions. The gane does offer variety of playstyles.

Of course, if you are one of those types of players who burn themselves out on the game by deliberately grinding to advance as quickly as possible...well, SC isn't gonna be your game either

[masterhorus8]

ED, NMS, SWTOR, SWG, Dual Universe, GTA, Space Engineers...

Still trippin' balls thinking that those are all the same game, I see.

[KyrtF]

The seamless transisition between space and planets/space stations, the physics grid which allows you to have ships inside of ships that you can walk around in while flying at tremendous speeds through space. All the while syncronizing this stuff to other players over the internet. That's what makes it groundbreaking.

All of that makes it a modern space sim and nothing more. Its all been done before. Head scanning was in Corporation for the Amiga. FOIP in STO. Serialused variables and RaaT have been around for decades. Syncing stuff over the Internet is almost as old as it is. City generation routines have been in use for years...FD was doing it in Elite II.

This stuff you claim has never been in a game before? A lot of it is pretty routine while a lot of the rest has been avoided because it either doesn't work or costs too much CPU power.

[Cyclone Jack]

Stuff like RaaT and Serialised variables are common. Stuff like FOIP adds nothing to the game and isn't new. Integrating different game styles into one is not the first time this has been done. SCs "scale" is one fourth to one tenth reality and fidelity is a matter of pixel density which is natural evolution at play.

There is nothing ground breaking here.

ED, NMS, SWTOR, SWG, Dual Universe, GTA, Space Engineers...

See, all of these have *some* of the elements seen in SC, but none of them have *all* of the elements. That's the difference. Heck, you could put Doom in your list, since it has first person combat, and you are a space marine, so it's apparently just like SC, right? Also, none of them use the same model for first and third person. Very few games do that in fact. I know ARMA does, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

Few games have ever been groundbreaking. Almost all of the the very successful games have iterated upon something before them. WoW was not groundbreaking in any way, yet it had over 14 million subs at one point (OK, so the 14m sub count was pretty groundbreaking, but the game was just a polished, streamlined EQ). There is absolutely nothing groundbreaking about GTAV or Destiny 1 or 2, but they sold like crazy. So to say SC isn't groundbreaking, well yeah. And? Who cares? Now, some of the things they are doing in CryEngine could be considered groundbreaking specifically in terms of the engine, but no, you are right, SC is just iterating upon what came before, and they are combining numerous genres, seamlessly, with a very high level of fidelity.

[masterhorus8]

Neat video that shows the lighting system of the star and planetary rotation for day/night. Simple, but effective.

[hulkgor]

I'm super excited about the game, but i just think there's no reason to keep following its development or get excited for minor improvements.

It will probably only (if ever) release in like 3 years, and i'll happily check it out when it does. But it's just too long to keep track of a game and actively 'wait' for it.

I just hope they'd stop bloating it with features and just get a working version out... there sure is room to grow with content patches and expansions down the line.

Some of those recent videos sure look nice, and the game concept is nothing sure of amazing. If they can pull it off

[KyrtF]

See, all of these have *some* of the elements seen in SC, but none of them have *all* of the elements.

Neither does Star Citizen...like those other games, SC **plans** to have them all. Lets say ED adds its own FPS system, while NMS improves on its multiplayer. What's the difference? Is it just Graphics style? Is it a bit deeper in Game focus? Or is there some true deep difference that SC adds that the other games do not? ED and SC are released; like SC they all use proc gen with varying degrees of handcrafting. Both have flight and space combat capability. Both have trading capability, resource gathering and so on - just like SC plans to. . Both have, or will have, FPS gameplay and on foot exploration. Both are more a multiplayer game than the MMO style game SC hopes to be - and that is probably the most profound difference, but even here, ED has some plans an potential for improvement.

Assuming the plans for all there games go through as planned. What feature or gameplay will SC have that the rest do not? The games will each have a different gameplay focus, each will likely do something better than the others, each will have its own graphical style...what will SC bring?

Heck, you could put Doom in your list, since it has first person combat, and you are a space marine, so it's apparently just like SC, right?]

But missing stuff like flight, and with no plans to add it.

Also, none of them use the same model for first and third person. Very few games do that in fact. I know ARMA does, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

Operation: Flashpoint also used a true first person view.

Also an irrelevance. It has no impact on gameplay. It's a lot of added complexity that adds nothing to the game except steal performance cycles. And as you point out - also been done. It also caused issues - because CIG attached the camera to the head, it bobbed. So then CIG added more code to "cancel" the bob. Now the HUD bobs. All of this adds complexity and steals performance. A minor bit (it's still rendering a model either way), but still some. All to do the same job other companies solved by using a pair of arms.

Which solution is better? Which is groundbreaking? Which is innovative?

A feature which causes problems for the game and adds nothing isn't groundbreaking or innovative...it's a problem. When it comes to technical "innovations" like this, one needs to ask what does it bring to the game? Does it offer any advantage or is it just extra complexity for the sake of complexity? Does having a true first person offer the player any improvement in gameplay or the developer any advantage in development? The answer is no.

The true first person viewpoint of Star Citizen is unusual...but it isn't new and it isn't unique and it isn't groundbreaking. It's a simple design choice. It offers the developer some advantages in some areas, at the costs of disadvantages in others. Animators don't have to create two models, but need to solve problems such as with head bob. You may as well praise CIG for choosing a first person view point instead of a third person viewpoint.

Few games have ever been groundbreaking.

And Star Citizen is not one of those few. That I not to say it will or will not be good, or bad, or fun or tedious, or successful or not. It just won't be ground breaking and adding stuff to CryEngine is not the same as innovating.

And? Who cares?

Apparently a lot of Star Citizen fanbois who try to use the innovation excuse as a reason why development of the game is so slow. For me, knowing that CE was lacking so many features and functions that they needed to create the game simply emphasises that CIG chose the wrong engine and have been paying for it ever since.

[masterhorus8]

Neither does Star Citizen...like those other games, SC **plans** to have them all.

SC already has things in it that none of the games you mentioned have already. But go ahead and keep doin' you.

[Malibutomi]

So the new patch on the PTU for me got rid of the big lagspikes, FPS is quite constant and much smoother than it was. Mobiglass shows armor on loadout. Overall nice improvement.

[CogsNCocks]

All of that makes it a modern space sim and nothing more. Its all been done before. Head scanning was in Corporation for the Amiga. FOIP in STO. Serialused variables and RaaT have been around for decades. Syncing stuff over the Internet is almost as old as it is. City generation routines have been in use for years...FD was doing it in Elite II.

This stuff you claim has never been in a game before? A lot of it is pretty routine while a lot of the rest has been avoided because it either doesn't work or costs too much CPU power.

Pretty routine? Are you for real?

You keep saying words, but know not what you say.

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All of that makes it a modern space sim and nothing more. Its all been done before. Head scanning was in Corporation for the Amiga. FOIP in STO. Serialused variables and RaaT have been around for decades. Syncing stuff over the Internet is almost as old as it is. City generation routines have been in use for years...FD was doing it in Elite II.

This stuff you claim has never been in a game before? A lot of it is pretty routine while a lot of the rest has been avoided because it either doesn't work or costs too much CPU power.

Where has it been done like this before, please just stop. You seem to not understand the difference between original concepts, and original implementation of a particular iteration of that concept. Star Citizen nails it across multiple domains in the second category, and packages it all together at level of fidelity never seen before in a real-time game. Next-generation stuff.

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That and all the grindy bits you hate from Elite.

Trouble is...ED tends to be grindy if you don't take advantage of what the game has to offer. You don't have to trade all the time...or fight...or mine....or do missions. The gane does offer variety of playstyles.

Of course, if you are one of those types of players who burn themselves out on the game by deliberately grinding to advance as quickly as possible...well, SC isn't gonna be your game either

I have done all of that stuff, and please don't presume to tell me what "type" of player I am. I'm certainly not one of the grind and rush players, it's ED inherent bad design that encourages you to play that way. Just look at the community goals for example, it's just flying between two or three stations trading stuff, or collecting bounties at the same spots for hours and days on end. All the different playstyles of Elite Dangerous are mind-numbingly boring after a while.