Donald Trump wants welfare reform, says ‘people are taking advantage of the system

[anveena]

Good. We spend too much money on entitlement programs.

[Themius]

Good. We spend too much money on entitlement programs.

So cut taxes on rich and make it harder for the poor to live?

[Kiri]

So cut taxes on rich and make it harder for the poor to live?

You know how everyone who watched the Purge movie said that something like that could never happen? I am fairly sure Trump could sell that premise as his plan to cut entitlements and his base would still cheer him on.

[Daelak]

So cut taxes on rich and make it harder for the poor to live?

They had no problem with entitlement spending when it was afforded only to white men. Unfortunately when FDR created programs that assisted blacks and the ensuing fight for equal protection and civil rights for blacks, these totally not racist, who exclaimed we lived in a post racial society conservatives started an entire cottage industry of think tanks and colleges to make an economic case against assisting minorities through democracy, so they invented the rationale of tax cuts, welfare reform, school choice as loopholes around the desegregation and blacks being afforded the same rights as them. They should be shamed and kicked down and broken like the Union forces did to them over 150 years ago.

[tyrlaan]

Good. We spend too much money on the military.

Fixed that for you.

[Paranoid Android]

Ah yes the outrage when someone buys a lobster on food stamps yet company like Amazon is getting such massive tax breaks in the hundreds of millions, if not billions in tax breaks.

When you raise taxes on One Percent or don't give a tax break it is class warfare but on the other end its "reform".

Do people abuse the system? Sure. Again the outrage is focused on people taking cents on the dollar compared to the real thieves.

[Spectral]

I don't know that I'd use the term "taking advantage", but SNAP spending really is a pretty good example of social spending that looks odd when we zoom out a little bit. Year-to-year data is available here and is pretty striking. In 2001, we had 17 million people on SNAP and spent about $17 billion/year. By 2007, this was 26 million people and $33 billion/year. During the recession and in its aftermath, this soared to 47 million/$79 billion in 2013. in theory, this should be fading back to pre-recession levels, but in 2016 it was still 44 million/$71 billion.

If a conscious, deliberate set of policy decisions had been made that justified more than twice as many people being on SNAP and about four times as much spending in 2016 as 2001, this might be reasonable, but as it is, it seems like it's mostly just inertia of a program that was increased "temporarily" and just continues to drain an extra $50 billion/year relative to what 2001 was.

I was around in 2001 and my recollection was not that Americans were insufficiently fed. In 2016, we are surely not insufficiently fed, with a solid majority of the nation being overweight and over a third being obese. Despite rhetoric that this is driven by a lack of money available for food, there is no good evidence that giving the poor and lower middle class more money for food results in them eating healthier rather than just increasing calorie consumption.

So, what's "reform" going to look like? I doubt it'll be smart. Republican administrations have shown little interest in good policy, so it'll likely be in the dumbest, bluntest fashion possible. Despite that, I might support it anyway if we're in a situation where we're running ridiculous deficits and not getting much return on that supposed investment.

edit - If you're considering responding to me with comments about corporate welfare, military spending, or tax cuts for the rich, please don't bother. I'm in favor of cuts to corporate welfare and military spending and tax increases for "the rich" with the caveat that it depends how you're defining "the rich".

[tankbug]

Trump-supporter: Yeah, he's gonna get rid of all the faking, freeloading, minorities that spend my taxes on crack! There is no way that he will reduce the welfare that I'm on, though, because he knows that I'm a God-fearing and decent patriot that would work if I could.

[Toppy]

Ah yes the outrage when someone buys a lobster on food stamps yet company like Amazon is getting such massive tax breaks in the hundreds of millions, if not billions in tax breaks.

When you raise taxes on One Percent or don't give a tax break it is class warfare but on the other end its "reform".

Do people abuse the system? Sure. Again the outrage is focused on people taking cents on the dollar compared to the real thieves.

The thing is the number of people abusing the system is a small minority. So much so you cant hit them without hitting the people who do need it. And people do need it, even if they do have jobs, given the current issue with the living wage being more and more rare for most americans.

[Macaquerie]

[GreenGoldSharpie]

The Republicans already allowed CHIP to expire. I'm not sure how welfare "reform" is any lower.

I fully expect this to land on rural whites, and I fully expect them to find someone other than the Republicans to blame it on too.

[paralleluniverse]

Of course, this is the same neoliberal playbook of every Republican.

Huge tax cuts for the rich, and huge welfare and healthcare cuts for the poor and middle class.

Trump is a fake populist, a stooge for the same old GOP trickle-down agenda.

This is class war on the poor.

[anveena]

So cut taxes on rich and make it harder for the poor to live?

I don't recall supporting cutting the taxes on the rich. I'm perfectly fine with them paying more.

Fixed that for you.

At some point, you're going to run out of a military budget to cut and you'll be left with the ever-expanding costs of the entitlement programs.

[Grapemask]

I don't know that I'd use the term "taking advantage", but SNAP spending really is a pretty good example of social spending that looks odd when we zoom out a little bit. Year-to-year data is available here and is pretty striking. In 2001, we had 17 million people on SNAP and spent about $17 billion/year. By 2007, this was 26 million people and $33 billion/year. During the recession and in its aftermath, this soared to 47 million/$79 billion in 2013. in theory, this should be fading back to pre-recession levels, but in 2016 it was still 44 million/$71 billion.

This is probably more to do with what most analysts have concluded; the upper and upper-middle classes have recovered from the recession, while we're nearly a decade out and the lower class is only just now starting to recover. Or as most put it, to call it a 'recovery' would be incorrect - it's more like they were permanently knocked down, and any improvement from here could just be considered normal growth, not recovery.

I think people not in poverty or disability, and who have never been part of welfare programs, don't understand that it's actually not easy to get any form of welfare, nor do those programs give you any form of comfortable life. The requirements are high, and on top of it, the states put in incredible hurdles to keep even those legitimately in need from getting it - sometimes legal hurdles, sometimes bureaucratic hurdles, sometimes just nonsensical. I know single mothers with multiple children that can't make ends meet with 1.5 full time jobs, but they still get routinely denied for applications to these programs. I know people on permanent disability, unable to work, that can't qualify for full food stamp aid. It's really not the world of free money that conservatives pretend it is.

[Snorkles]

There's nothing innately wrong about welfare reform, however when paired with "People are taking advantage of the system" you know it's going to be a fucking terrible, cut off your nose to spite your face sort of affair.

[Sky High]

I don't recall supporting cutting the taxes on the rich. I'm perfectly fine with them paying more.


At some point, you're going to run out of a military budget to cut and you'll be left with the ever-expanding costs of the entitlement programs.

Pffffffffffffft

Yeah, like that’s ever going to happen. First step should be to find out where billions of tax dollars are disappearing and the pentagon isnt held to any sort of standard to keep track of it. Then we can talk about your fanciful military cutting.

[Themius]

Trump-supporter: Yeah, he's gonna get rid of all the faking, freeloading, minorities that spend my taxes on crack! There is no way that he will reduce the welfare that I'm on, though, because he knows that I'm a God-fearing and decent patriot that would work if I could.

It’s funny because that’s exactly how it is.

[primalmatter]

People are taking advantage of it.

The idea of giving out cash was always a bad idea. They should be given a room and food in exchange for labor in place of current social aid.

[Grapemask]

People are taking advantage of it.

The idea of giving out cash was always a bad idea. They should be given a room and food in exchange for labor in place of current social aid.

See, it's this right here. The blatant misunderstanding that people just walk in and say "I'll take some free money and food, please." This is not how it works.

[primalmatter]

See, it's this right here. The blatant misunderstanding that people just walk in and say "I'll take some free money and food, please." This is not how it works.

Elaborate please.