Classic servers and access to retired mounts (and mogs)

[Xargoth6634]

I don't really care one way or the other. On the one hand, it'd be cool to have appearances like Corrupted Ashbringer for my paladins on live servers (as well as mounts/titles-Scarab Lord in particular), but on the other hand it does cheapen the whole thing for people who have them on live servers and earned them when they were current.

I'm honestly not sure how much prestige anything has on live anymore. Granted, I play pretty sporadically (3-4 months a year on live til I get bored), but there's been such turnover over the years I'm not sure your average player would even recognize a lot of the cooler stuff from Vanilla at this point. Yeah, it's definitely cool to see someone with the Scarab Lord title and mount (even after all the newly-minted Scarab Lords during the WoLK bug), but that's pretty rare at this point and I'm not sure it'd really cause more than a momentary "oh, that's cool," which is completely different to the reaction many of us had when we saw the first 1-2 people on the server wielding a pair of Warglaives. Once Vanilla servers drop, I doubt I'll play much on live at all other than maybe a month or two at the beginning and end of every xpac to experience it, so realistically there's a limit to how much I'll care about aesthetics on live. That and with no server communities anymore and most of my friends having quit over the years, who am I even showing off my mounts too? Shit, I have ~7 no longer obtainable mounts (old brewfest ram, 4 phoenixes, the CM yeti, and another one I can't think of at the moment) and no one really seems to notice or care about those.

I'm actually trying to remember whether I've ever met anyone with Atiesh on a live server. It's such a meh model that I'm not sure I'd even recognize it if someone were showing it off, unless it was pointed out to me. Never met anyone with a Corrupted Ashbringer (the original) appearance either, and that's hands-down my favorite weapon skin in the game.

[Coconut]

@ComputerNerd You're not making any sense now.

Yes, it's cool to have more racial mount color variations, especially if they're being updated like the kodos, so they matter... it matters to people who like customization to have those choices available to them.

No, they were never intentionally a "badge of honor", that's pure unmitigated BS. There was no "buy a mount in the first 6 months of the game and earn a highly exclusive reward" promotion; they were never like Gladiator or CM mounts. They were the same as the generic 60% models. Blizzard updated them to look more epic. They removed the old ones so people don't get confused. People had no idea that mounts would become collectibles back then, or what retired content meant, or even how long the game was going to live. Later on players realized they're super rare, so they started to consider them valuable - but they were no more intended than a rare error on a batch of collector coins.

Yes, if Blizzard wants them to be a bit of a rare sight if they add them, they can do that with a steeper gold price. 100k is not unreasonable, considering future inflation. It's a realistic price for plenty of players (unlike sth like BMAH), but it's a large enough sum that you won't pay it unless you really want it, therefore the rarity. But the rarity or lack thereof is not the important part. The important part is for things to be available to us. The rarity is just a compromise.

And like I said multiple times, I am not insisting on playing Vanilla. I agree with all the concerns. Doesn't change the fact that I think Classic servers now makes it fair to add them to Live. They should be added to Live particularly because of the concerns, unless Blizzard, in opposition to most Vanilla purists, actually wants to artificially push people in there (they might, for any number of reasons).


Where am I contradicting myself?

[JJShadoe]

[MENTION=563751]
Doesn't change the fact that I think Classic servers now makes it fair to add them to Live. They should be added to Live particularly because of the concerns, unless Blizzard, in opposition to most Vanilla purists, actually wants to artificially push people in there (they might, for any number of reasons).

If they want to add no-longer-in-game rewards to the live game, they do so via the BMAH. They will continue to do so. Getting things done in Classic WoW will have no effect on getting things in current WoW. There will be no connection between the two games.

[endersblade]

Anything we have a collection system for, be it toys, mounts, or transmog, absolutely needs to be carried over to live. I have pointed out in other threads that there are literally thousands of armor textures that we can no longer get because they have been removed, and if they're bringing Vanilla back, then we can get them again. This will allow us to complete a whole host of transmog sets that until now have remained unfinished due to retired items.

Transmog doesn't need to be enabled on Vanilla, I'm not asking for that. But the collection of such items still needs to go to your transmog collection. The same with the mounts. I don't care if I don't have access to all of my mounts in Vanilla, but there ARE some now-unattainable mounts that would be awesome to be able to get again. Like the original ZG Tiger and Raptor.

[JohnnyMccrum]

I'm sure many people will want to use the Classic servers to add legacy items to their Standard collections. It makes sense in a way. Since these items will be at least temporarily, if not permanently available on Vanilla servers, their value as keepsakes for people who used to play back in the day will be greatly diminished.

That being said, I don't think the people who lobbied for Classic would like their game to be modernized with mount and transmog tabs just for the sake of collectors, and many collectors might not enjoy feeling like they "have to" play Classic intensively to get something they want to use in Standard.

What do you guys think? How would you like this handled?


P.S. To edgy Vanilla lovers who think Vanilla mounts and mogs should remain exclusive to Vanilla servers, don't be hypocrites. You wanted access to retired content in a way you could enjoy, and Blizzard listened to you. There is no reason why collectors shouldn't have the same expectations - only we don't want the gameplay, just the vanity items.

Literally only a tiny fraction of players would want this, and it's the players that are coming from Legion to Vanilla and still actively care about and play Legion that don't want their own achievements devalued. These players are the vast minority, outnumbered in every possible respect.

Calling vanilla players hypocrites is hilarious, what makes you even think that Vanilla content in "ANY WAY" is going to be attached to the main game? seriously, can you imagine the outrage from legion players? of course it makes way, WAY, WAAAAAAY more sense never to link collections and for these things to be separate entities.


I think you're quite delusional, do you really think Blizzard would ever even consider adding classic items back into the modern game? do you actually seriously believe even a fraction of vanilla players want collection tabs? or achievement tabs? do you think Blizzard would actually put in ALL OF THIS EFFORT to basically add achievements to vanilla WoW? of course they don't want to do that, of course the vanilla playerbase never want collections. they want mounts in the bags, where they belong. and they don't need some egotistical tab to show them what their own achievements are, they're wearing their achievements.

Just because YOU (a selfish collector) want classic items in the main game because YOU want to devalue everyone's ancient achievements and YOU want to benefit from what is essentially a devaluing of your own achievements -- don't use vanilla players as an opportunity and excuse to pedal your insane delusions. Blizzard should never open a loop hole for players to gain old classic achievements, items, mounts or other items. For starters, it took way more effort back then to get those achievements anyway with 10fps on a 800x600 screen than it ever would in 2017 with wowhead, addons and 300+ fps

They already did that in Wrath, people were buying old pre-battle.net accounts that weren't linked with battle.net for hundreds of dollars and getting old items, achievements, titles, items, mounts etc by adding them to their current battle.net accounts, they basically mined a database and Blizzard didn't even do anything to stop them. 10% of the playerbase achieved 90% of the classic achievements by simply buying accounts.

[Ulthane]

I say if you earn a reward on the Classic server you should have something in your retail to reflect that. Simple as that, it's still a bitch and a half to earn regardless. You cant just walk into lets say: Naxxramas and expect to drop things or get loot. Same goes for many other things, Benediction/Anathema, Lok'delar. Class quests etc. Things were VERY hard back then in the sense of not mechanics but a pure numbers game.

You earn Grand Marshal in classic? You should get something to reflect it somewhere. But it's just not easy to do, its time consuming and requires a ton of effort and its not something you will casually be able to do. Given that: Retail or Classic becomes your choice, do you want older content or do you want to put the time into new stuff because frankly if you want old stuff on your account you will be putting in a ton of work for it.

[Coconut]

If they want to add no-longer-in-game rewards to the live game, they do so via the BMAH.

BMAH sucks. There are already too many "retired" things there for the kind of "gameplay" it provides. It should get its own exclusive items, or have a more reliable number of postings each day (20-30 sounds about right).

@JohnnyMccrum

I'll just repeat myself here: If it is ok for you to want the entire Classic experience recreated for you because you are a Vanilla purist, then it is ok for me to want collectors' items added back because I'm a collector. Believing you are in any way entitled to special treatment is what is delusional.

They already did that in Wrath, people were buying old pre-battle.net accounts that weren't linked with battle.net for hundreds of dollars and getting old items, achievements, titles, items, mounts etc by adding them to their current battle.net accounts, they basically mined a database and Blizzard didn't even do anything to stop them. 10% of the playerbase achieved 90% of the classic achievements by simply buying accounts.

An excellent argument against removing any sort of content from the game. I'm well aware how much harm it does: as soon as it was announced MoP CMs were going away, everyone started buying carries and suddenly there were gold sets everywhere. Hard content would feel a lot more exclusive if people didn't feel an obligation to do it.

[JohnnyMccrum]

BMAH sucks. There are already too many "retired" things there for the kind of "gameplay" it provides. It should get its own exclusive items, or have a more reliable number of postings each day (20-30 sounds about right).

@JohnnyMccrum

I'll just repeat myself here: If it is ok for you to want the entire Classic experience recreated for you because you are a Vanilla purist, then it is ok for me to want collectors' items added back because I'm a collector. Believing you are in any way entitled to special treatment is what is delusional.



An excellent argument against removing any sort of content from the game. I'm well aware how much harm it does: as soon as it was announced MoP CMs were going away, everyone started buying carries and suddenly there were gold sets everywhere. Hard content would feel a lot more exclusive if people didn't feel an obligation to do it.

Like I've said, your argument that these two things are equal isn't really convincing. having the entire vanilla experience being it's own entity is not the same thing as adding legacy achievements back into the game for potentially everyone and their mother to obtain, vastly diminishing the worth of every legacy (and soon, bc, tlk, cata, mop, wod) achievement.

You may say it's hypocritical for vanilla players because we want access to old content that is no longer accessible in the modern game, but we want the content, you want the bragging rights and achievements and equipment, you are looking at this for completely the wrong reasons.

If you really believe the wider community has your back that these things are equal, I think you should go ahead and make a petition, better yet, post this same topic as a petition on the WoW subreddit, here, the vanilla WoW subreddit and come back.

to save you all that effort though, if you're willing to take my word for it, a lot of people would agree with me and say this completely and entirely undermines achievements for those who "did it first". If you fail an exam the first time around, and you resit the exam, and it's the EXACT same exam, of course you are going to do much better the second time around in most cases. Most people didn't have the benefit of knowing for example that female dwarf priests were OP, now they do, they didn't know there was a druid helmet from dire maul in vanilla that was BiS until BC, now they do, they didn't know every pro dps used bombs in their rotation, now they do. All of these "secrets" and "tricks"...even the most coveted by the top guilds have since been released to the public because their worth was antiquated after the content became outdated. If you expect blizzard to backtrack and remove all of these things and tweak them, that's also far-fetched.

Additionally think about that guy that managed to work really hard and buy five teebus blazing longswords and now he's super rich, that won't happen in vanilla WoW, everyone knows which items became exclusive and coveted items.

Someone playing vanilla, bc, wrath etc has way more knowledge on this now than they ever would have done back in that time period, not to mention all the other advantages they have.

Also I actually personally know people that bought both the Green Fire warlock quest and the Gold CM's back in MoP. It should be common sense that these people should be banned. no effort is even made to shut down those that carry others through content. Just because hard content is also exclusive content doesn't mean it should be added back into the game, it'd be a great way to spite everyone that bought illegal carries, but for those who put in the effort and actually obtained those things legitimately, you are actually teaching them that even the hardest content isn't worth their time "the first time around".

Does vanilla also cause everyones achievements on Legion to be worthless "the first time around" definitely. not a single vanilla wow player is going to care in the slightest what achievements you had in "Old WoW", unless you're freaking Kungen. but that is a debate in itself about the future of "Old WoW" -- you'd be destroying old WoW further by doing this to some of the veterans of the game, who already lost things such as pvp titles, bragging rights for having multiple high levelled characters etc, the list goes on.

In my mind, if you want legacy appearances they're available on the AH for a few hundred thousand gold, if you want legacy achievements, too bad. BMAH is available, people put up a lot of gold, because that's what the item is worth based on it's rarity and exclusivity, you are devaluing 4 years of BMAH with your proposal.

[JJShadoe]

Anything we have a collection system for, be it toys, mounts, or transmog, absolutely needs to be carried over to live. I have pointed out in other threads that there are literally thousands of armor textures that we can no longer get because they have been removed, and if they're bringing Vanilla back, then we can get them again. This will allow us to complete a whole host of transmog sets that until now have remained unfinished due to retired items.

Nah. That ain't Classic. You want a mount? Carry it in your bag. Pet? Same. I used to carry my T3 around in my bag with me and made a macro to equip it all when I got to town so I could look how I wanted to. Classic = no collection systems.

- - - Updated - - -

BMAH sucks. There are already too many "retired" things there for the kind of "gameplay" it provides. It should get its own exclusive items, or have a more reliable number of postings each day (20-30 sounds about right).

I'm not that rich in-game, so I don't get much out of BMAH, but it's a system where you can work towards a goal and then seize the opportunity when it arises, if you want. Rare things should be rare. That's good for the game.

[Coconut]

Like I've said, your argument that these two things are equal isn't really convincing. having the entire vanilla experience being it's own entity is not the same thing as adding legacy achievements back into the game for potentially everyone and their mother to obtain, vastly diminishing the worth of every legacy (and soon, bc, tlk, cata, mop, wod) achievement.

If you really believe the wider community has your back that these things are equal, I think you should go ahead and make a petition, better yet, post this same topic as a petition on the WoW subreddit, here, the vanilla WoW subreddit and come back.

to save you all that effort though, if you're willing to take my word for it, a lot of people would agree with me and say this completely and entirely undermines achievements for those who "did it first". If you fail an exam the first time around, and you resit the exam, and it's the EXACT same exam, of course you are going to do much better the second time around in most cases.

Also I actually know people that bought both the Green Fire warlock quest and the Gold CM's back in MoP. It should be common sense that these people should be banned. no effort is even made to shut down those that carry others through content. Just because hard content is also exclusive content doesn't mean it should be added back into the game, it'd be a great way to spite everyone that bought illegal carries, but for those who put in the effort and actually obtained those things legitimately, you are actually teaching them that even the hardest content isn't worth their time "the first time around"

Neither of the four main categories of items discussed in this thread is particularly an "achievement":

- The original epic mounts
- ZG mounts
- Naxx gear
- Assorted items from all over the place,

Were all removed at random points in game for reasons unrelated to any sort of official challenge. People strutting around like peacocks because others can't get their stuff =/= they actually had a harder time getting that thing than any similar reward that is still obtainable. Half of it was removed with Cata when it was easily soloable, so give me a break with the entitlement.

Aside from that, it's pretty amusing that you are placing these dubious achievements ahead of the monumental work the people at Blizzard placed ahead of themselves in order to make Classic servers. Legacy items being added back is simply a bone thrown to the collectors you hate so much in compensation for the lost resources and development time thrown on your temper tantrum - AND (you should appreciate this) a way to keep collectors off you Classic realms, should they add these items directly in Standard. Oh, and don't pretend the mere existence of Classic servers doesn't take away from the the prestige of people who played Vanilla for real. What's going to happen when people will beat Nihilum's Kel'thuzad kill record?

You want a poll? Try making it once Classic is live and people actually start earning these rewards. And then tell them if they want to pay for the latest expansion and play there they can't use them anymore, because so sayeth the Lord so Epeen. See how that goes.

Rare things should be rare. That's good for the game.

There are plenty of ways to make things rare without making them shit gameplay or pay to win. As for the racial mounts, they're not rare, they're basically non-existent.

[Deleted]

how can people keep discussing about literally "nothing" for 13 pages?

[JohnnyMccrum]

Neither of the four main categories of items discussed in this thread is particularly an "achievement":

- The original epic mounts
- ZG mounts
- Naxx gear
- Assorted items from all over the place,

Were all removed at random points in game for reasons unrelated to any sort of official challenge. People strutting around like peacocks because others can't get their stuff =/= they actually had a harder time getting that thing than any similar reward that is still obtainable. Half of it was removed with Cata when it was easily soloable, so give me a break with the entitlement.

Aside from that, it's pretty amusing that you are placing these dubious achievements ahead of the monumental work the people at Blizzard placed ahead of themselves in order to make Classic servers. Legacy items being added back is simply a bone thrown to the collectors you hate so much in compensation for the lost resources and development time thrown on your temper tantrum - AND (you should appreciate this) a way to keep collectors off you Classic realms, should they add these items directly in Standard. Oh, and don't pretend the mere existence of Classic servers doesn't take away from the the prestige of people who played Vanilla for real. What's going to happen when people will beat Nihilum's Kel'thuzad kill record?

You want a poll? Try making it once Classic is live and people actually start earning these rewards. And then tell them if they want to pay for the latest expansion and play there they can't use them anymore, because so sayeth the Lord so Epeen. See how that goes.



There are plenty of ways to make things rare without making them shit gameplay or pay to win. As for the racial mounts, they're not rare, they're basically non-existent.

The original epic mounts were an incredible achievement, gold was incredibly hard to farm for epic mounts in general, nevermind at the start of vanilla, and those mounts were only available for a few weeks after launch.

Let me boil this down -- you're being jealous of those that had the foresight to stockpile certain items or just had items lying around in their banks pre-cata. Sure I had a few haunted momentos and I feel bad that I got rid of them, because they were essentially annoying bag junk with a gimic, and now they're worth quite a lot of gold, but I don't really want those added back into the game, because why would I? the only reason I'd actually want that to happen is if I wanted to devalue everyone elses momentos, that item is only cool because it's rare, making it accessible will turn it back into annoying bag junk.

Your argument is: "These items aren't in the game anymore, they're cool items, I want them, since they're in vanilla, we should have them in the main game, it doesn't matter if they were rare or hard to get, people cheated! and devaluing doesn't matter, vanilla devalues everything!"

My argument is: "That might be true, but you're going to destroy the economy and drive old veterans away and devalue every future achievement or reward"

[Coconut]

The original epic mounts were an incredible achievement, gold was incredibly hard to farm for epic mounts in general, nevermind at the start of vanilla, and those mounts were only available for a few weeks after launch.

6 months, to be more exact. A quick summary of the counterarguments:

- They were not intended as an "achievement", nor perceived as one by players until much later. They existed because Blizzard launched the game without finishing the models for epic mounts. When these new models were launched, players were strongly encouraged to exchange the originals for the new (current) versions. Most players did, and they have nothing to show for it now (only Troll, Nelf and Human mounts were worth keeping).
- The Undead mounts were never changed. The Green and Purple Skeletal Horses which you can buy now for 10 gold were the equivalent of these mounts that got removed. Implicitly, Undead players never had a proper chance to get your "incredible achievement" simply based on the race they chose.
- Buying the new type of epic mounts was just as hard for most of Vanilla, there was no additional challenge to the original ones other than the arbitrary time window.
- Updated models are being created for these mounts using modern resources; players paying subs right now have a right to use those new models.

[JohnnyMccrum]

6 months, to be more exact. A quick summary of the counterarguments:

- They were not intended as an "achievement", nor perceived as one by players until much later. They existed because Blizzard launched the game without finishing the models for epic mounts. When these new models were launched, players were strongly encouraged to exchange the originals for the new (current) versions. Most players did, and they have nothing to show for it now (only Troll, Nelf and Human mounts were worth keeping).
- The Undead mounts were never changed. The Green and Purple Skeletal Horses which you can buy now for 10 gold were the equivalent of these mounts that got removed. Implicitly, Undead players never had a proper chance to get your "incredible achievement" simply based on the race they chose.
- Buying the new type of epic mounts was just as hard for most of Vanilla, there was no additional challenge to the original ones other than the arbitrary time window.
- Updated models are being created for these mounts using modern resources; players paying subs right now have a right to use those new models.

A lot of achievements are race exclusive, a lot of things were class exclusive, most things are RNG exclusive, I'm not really sure what your point is. even something as simple as being an Orc instantly meant you were leveling faster and had much more access to things like copper, it's just a known fact really. everything in this game is situational, just because you didn't land in that situation and didn't get the thing doesn't mean you should be upset or jealous.

one guy got martin fury, guess we should add martin fury back into the game so everyone can try it out.

[Coconut]

A lot of achievements are race exclusive, I'm not really sure what your point is. being an Orc instantly meant you were leveling faster and had much more access to things like copper, it's just a known fact really. everything in this game is situational, just because you didn't land in that situation and didn't get the thing doesn't mean you should be upset or jealous.

Comparing an early chance at a highly exclusive mount with... more access to copper... ROFL I'm truly shocked you didn't bring the advantage of mailbox strip dancing into this You're killing me!

But no, I know, the game was a bit random and unfocused in its early days (part of its charm I suppose). Maybe, bare with me here, just maybe... the original epic mounts weren't meant as an exclusive reward for leveling early? Maybe Blizzard simply replaced them because they made cooler models? And later players were like "Oh shit! Guess this is super rare now! Yay!". Maybe there's not as much leet merit in it as you'd like to believe?

one guy got martin fury, guess we should add martin fury back into the game so everyone can try it out.

What does Martin Fury have to do with anything? Martin Fury is not moggable, who needs that crap?

[JJShadoe]

Neither of the four main categories of items discussed in this thread is particularly an "achievement":

- The original epic mounts
- ZG mounts
- Naxx gear
- Assorted items from all over the place,

Yet you want them so badly, and are obviously envious of the very few people who do have them (as am I, I'd like to add). You think getting those items that long ago, still playing the game, and keeping that stuff all these years isn't an achievement?

You're wrong.

[Chipperbane]

I just really want them to bring back Misplaced Servo Arm.

[Kralljin]

Quite honestly, i wouldn't mind it.

While i can understand some people arguing that some of these items will lose it's status, it's a bit exaggeration, they're already available via the BMAH.

It's not like Classic Servers will hit and everyone will have full T3 on every character and a ZG Tiger to boot.

Even after ~13 years, it will take a lot of time to get these things (Unless you have "friends in high places" that drag you through all this).

Due the fact that solo'ing isn't exactly a thing in Vanilla, you need some people to kill Thekal / Mandokir, that alone will already raise the bar for a lot of people attempt it.

Doing Naxx isn't something to sneeze at either, you still need a lot of other people to do it, being the final tier of Vanilla also means that you need to have gear from previous raids, which isn't farmed in one or two weeks as well.


The amount of people that will get T3 or the ZG Mounts due Classic Servers will be very small, because time and RNG remain a massive blockade for most people to even think about farming it.


Aside from that, i think it's fair to offer some option to get removed stuff, as long as the "difficulty" / effort keeps it rare enough, i think this is especially true for T3 gear, this was removed way before Transmog even became a thing, so a lot of people didn't even had the chance to farm it or even thought about it, because up until the introduction of transmog, old gear was just wasting bank space at it's core.


Also, helps Vanilla servers to have some longtime incentive to play on them, especially since you have to progress through a lot of stuff to get a shot to farm these items.

[ComputerNerd]

Yet you want them so badly, and are obviously envious of the very few people who do have them (as am I, I'd like to add). You think getting those items that long ago, still playing the game, and keeping that stuff all these years isn't an achievement?

You're wrong.

This sums up the problem with their argument
Constantly telling us how they are both unimportant, and something that should be carried over to live because they are important for customisation.
They can't be both at once.
Constantly lying about motivations does not change what they are.

They want the mounts that are otherwise now very exclusive, because they see them as special.
That is their motivation for this argument.
And that is what vanilla does not need, skewed motivations which as correctly pointed out does not apply just to mounts, but transmogs too from removed items.

If you want vanilla, it should absolutely be because of what it offers on its own.

[Coconut]

Yet you want them so badly, and are obviously envious of the very few people who do have them (as am I, I'd like to add). You think getting those items that long ago, still playing the game, and keeping that stuff all these years isn't an achievement?

You're wrong.

This sums up the problem with their argument
Constantly telling us how they are both unimportant, and something that should be carried over to live because they are important for customisation.
They can't be both at once.

Just because you two appraise the world through envy doesn't mean everyone does. Believe it or not, people want these mounts because of what they look like, not how rare they are. That's why people predominantly mention the Sabers, Raptors and Horses but nobody ever says "Oh, I wish I had a Red Wolf or an Icy Blue Mechanostrider Mod A!" (see the post where I linked the images to understand why).

You keep making the nonsensical argument that because people think it would be cool to have, say, a white horse in WoW, white horses are super valuable and they should be kept unavailable... Or maybe people just want a fairly traditional mount-color combination to be available in game? Because, if you think about it, it's kind of absurd that WoW doesn't cover this fantasy?

Constantly lying about motivations does not change what they are.

They want the mounts that are otherwise now very exclusive, because they see them as special.
That is their motivation for this argument.
And that is what vanilla does not need, skewed motivations which as correctly pointed out does not apply just to mounts, but transmogs too from removed items.

If you want vanilla, it should absolutely be because of what it offers on its own.

And this sums up the attitude of the dark side of the Classic fanboys (I'm not going to claim they are all like you). You disagree with me, so I must be a liar. So kind of you to explain what my motivation is, as if you know it better than I do All just to proudly hoist the flag of "Everything for me, nothing for you" the supremely entitled "Classicists" like to fly.

Well, guess what, you can't ignore reality. Up until now, these mounts were only seen when veterans showed them off, which happened almost never. Most people didn't even know about them, and even if they did, they didn't have solid footing to ask Blizzard to bring them back when there was no content for them. Blizzard wasn't going to simply add them to the vendor just for the sake of having them in game. On top of that, starting Cata the models were showing their age, people largely lost interest in them, so it felt more worthwhile to let them be unique.

But now they will be visible on Classic servers. Now they are getting updated models. And sooner or later the issue of merged collections will be brought up, if not in Classic then in Legacy TBC or Wrath, when the infrastructure for mount collecting existed. It's one thing to tell people the mounts shouldn't be added back, and completely another to tell them they can't carry them over after they earn them in Classic 2.0! Adding them back to Standard somehow is merely an alternative to avoid an invasion of mount collector tourists on Classic servers (that, and I do think Classic timewalking has to be in the works).

Answer that if you can, but no more BS arguments about exclusivity please. Classic fans can't have their cake and eat it too. You can't have a Classic server for nostalgic veterans and at the same time let all their Vanilla items stay exclusive so they can make newer players "envious" in Standard. Playing WoW in 2004-2005 doesn't make you the all-deserving bellybutton of the world. If you're going to dig up old content, do it for everyone.