Theres only one possible class left they can add to the game

[Wildberry]

When they were first introduced, absolutely! However, he was right about their adverse affect on the game itself.

Not really. There are plenty of things adversely affecting the game. Demon Hunters really aren't one of them. Regardless, that's entirely irrelevant here. He was proclaiming Demon Hunters would never happen, that they were impossible in modern Warcraft, etc. Yet somehow, I have a Demon Hunter and he's left out in the cold.

[rarhyx]

Again, Bards lack all the requirements to become a future WoW expansion class:

-No WC3 hero
-No possible expansion theme to fit them into
-No major lore figure to tie them to
-No established lore of any kind to make them appear as a group or an organization.

please show me where blizzard stated that this was a requirment

[Directionalk9]

please show me where blizzard stated that this was a requirment

He acts like a gate keeper on what classes potentially can come into the game. Ignore his comments, they tend to redirect the discussion into debates about the most minute, nitpicky, semantic details.

Real class creation probably doesn’t happen that way.

[Teriz]

So since you seem to be the expert on Tinkers, how would they work in your opinion? How would they be different than the profession?

I like the idea of Tinkers, but I don't see how they're different than Hunters.

I'm no expert on them, but it seems that many people have this idea in their head that a Tinker would be some Hunter clone with guns and bows, lobbing bombs and laying mines. If you look at the actual Tinker hero itself, the differences between a Hunter and a Tinker becomes very clear cut.

How *I* envision the class is a mech-based class that uses a wide variety of weaponry and high-tech gadgets to protect their allies and defeat their enemies. Here's how I see them working gameplay-wise:

1. The Mech

Both Tinker heroes had a mechanical device that they carried on their backs. Both of these devices at max level transformed into a rideable machine of death. This ability was called "Robo-Goblin". In WC3, the hero could transform in and out of Robo-Goblin at will, almost like how Druids could transform into animals. This gives credence to the theory that if introduced into WoW, the Tinker's mech form would operate similarly to a Druid form. So that alone is a pretty big difference from the Hunter class, since Hunters can't fight inside transformable mechs.

Mekkatorque and Gazlowe have also been portrayed in Legion fighting inside mechs, so this further lends credence to that theory. Especially since Gazlowe is the Tinker hero in HotS.

Finally, these mechs could also work as class mounts. So you leave combat while in mech form, and then (like the Druid class) you hit your travel form, and the mech transforms into land, sea, or air mode and allows you to travel without having to use a mount.

2. Abilities

The Tinker heroes and the mech-based WoW characters have used a wide variety of mech-based abilities. Here's a sampling of them (none of which is in the Hunter class):

Damage:
Cluster Rockets: Missiles that cause AoE damage and stuns. (WC3)
XPlodium Charge: Explosive bomb that causes AoE damage and stuns. (HotS)
Grav-O-Bomb 3000: Bomb that sucks targets towards its center and then explodes causing damage. (HotS)
Death Lazor: Chargeable laser that deals damage in a line. (HotS)
Rock-it Turrets: Upgradable turrets that deal damage at range. (HotS)
Flame Thrower: (channel) Deals fire damage to targets in a cone. (WoW: Gazlowe)
Machine Gun: (channel) Deals damage that ignores armor. (WoW: Crushcog)
Steam Blast: Deals fire damage that knock backs the enemy. (WoW: Thermaplugg)
Pocket Factory: Constructs a miniature factory that produces robots that attack nearby targets. (WC3)
Skyfall: Mech leaps to a targeted location, dealing damage on impact. (WoW: Gazlowe)


Utility:
Salvager: Your creations leave behind scrap that reduce the cooldowns of your abilities.(HotS)
Engineering Upgrade: Enhances your abilities and increases your movement speed. (WC3)
Protective Frenzy: Briefly increases your attack speed and movement speed when your creations are destroyed. (WoW: Blackfuse)
Gazlowe CD from HotS: Envelops caster in a shield that reduces damage, and increases movement speed for 4 seconds. (HotS)
Healing Beam: (channel) Repairs your creations. (WoW: Blackfuse)

So as you can see, you pretty much have a skeleton of a class already. How would it play? I'm not a developer, but if I had to guess, you'd probably be looking at a melee/ranged hybrid that could definitely tank and do DPS. Healing is up in the air unless Blizzard incorporates the Goblin Alchemist which is definitely possible since Healing Spray could work with the mech concept.

In terms of melee/ranged hybrid play: Gelbin's mech in Legion had the ability to hit in melee, and then have the claw flip to a gun for ranged damage. Don't see why that couldn't be incorporated into the class itself. You can see the gun/claw combo in the image of the mech itself:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ci7SP6QWYAE1vus.jpg

Hope this helps.

- - - Updated - - -

please show me where blizzard stated that this was a requirment

Never stated, but certainly implied.

[CaptainV]

Necromancer - far too close to warlock and dk, would heavily struggle to find any form of uniqueness without stepping into the other classes
Dark Ranger - far too close to a hunter. horde specific as well
Dragonsworn - would need to include an actual dragonkin race to make this happen
Blademaster - is a warrior
Rune Master - interesting, but would have to remove runes from DH's
Timewalker - is an acrane mage
Bard - what would it even do
Vindicator - is a ret paladin
Warden - far too similar to rogue
Shadow Hunter - is essentially a hunter/shaman hybrid

So all in all, no you probably shouldn't go on

Same argument ive heard 3 times so ill reply to this one specifically.

Necromancer is easy to find unqieuness with you simply have more pets to use and less damage from each one, there are many ways, one I have even concepted myself that necro could be entirley distinct from Warlock.

Dark Ranger is not close to a hunter at all, and also Horde specific is subjective, its not impossible that during the time the Gilneans were fighting gurrelia wars in Silverpine that they havent taken Banshee captives and tortured them for information on their arts, there are still ARugal worgen that could easily fit the feel of a Dark Ranger.

Blademaster is indeed an arms warrior but they are basically more specific than that, lighter armor, use of mirror images and illusionary magic/haste magic, they're like a shaman meets an illusionist with a use of a melee weapon.

Timewalker is literally its own thing, not just hypothetically but literally, time walkers have mutliple spec types blatantly teased in timeless isles and powers suited to their own needs, its entirley plausable if not LIKELY theyre the next hero class.

Warden? Rogue? No, not at all, more like an arcane demon hunter if you *must* draw a comparison. But then again Shadow Hunters are also very similar to hunters with shadow priest arts and yet both could interestingly be used as some kind of mirror class that could easily dinstinct itself from the others.

Vindicator is not a ret paladin, Vindicators are actually meant to be quite logicial thinking, Maraad is not the only Vindicator out there, hes just a template for others.

Bard's have been teased many time in the lore, using magic infused with song/arcane and also being able to bedazzle/control enemies.

Rune Master is admittingly one im not too fond of as its mostly a tauren/dwarf thing and honestly is very simlar to shamanism but it does exist, it could easily be made into a thing, hell we see rune casters in Vrykul culture all the time.

Dragonsworn dont need a dragonkin race, they are literally any race serving a dragon, thats the entire point of a Dragonsworn, they are mortals in service to the aspects.

Kiting the boss and keeping aggro while never letting it hit you. Only works for melee bosses though.

It's an interesting idea but pretty tricky to implement correctly

Its downright impossible to implament directly, which is why Tinkers if they existed would need mech suits that have tanking abilities.

Melee dps would be pointless with a ranged tank.

[Illidari]

/snip

How would a mech class work though? Like would the class always be inside a mech? Would the pilot exit the vehicle and run around while his vehicle just sits there? Would we have that shitty hud that pops up whenever you pilot a vehicle?

I just don't see how a vehicle-based class would work in this game.

Thanks for your previous post though, it was a good read.

[Challenge]

Same argument ive heard 3 times so ill reply to this one specifically.

Necromancer is easy to find unqieuness with you simply have more pets to use and less damage from each one, there are many ways, one I have even concepted myself that necro could be entirley distinct from Warlock.

.

Youre talking about a gameplay point of view. No one is aruging that. Anyone can create a different rotation of the same flavor. I can create a totally different unholy deaht knight rotation if I wanted but its still a fucking unholy death knight. Thematically, its the same fucking shit we already have. How can you not get this through your head already. A dark spellcaster who summons undead and uses plague/poison/disease/whatever the fuck you want which is the same mix of warlock and death knight. STOP ASKING FOR NECROMANCER.

[Teriz]

How would a mech class work though?

They could work just like Druid forms.

Like would the class always be inside a mech?

In combat? Yes. However, if they're in a city or hub, they could simply run around in pilot mode, which would be just a Goblin or Gnome in their gear. I'd personally give them a few abilities in pilot mode just to make those first few levels of leveling bearable. The class should get is first mech around level 5, and its spec-based mech at 10.

Would the pilot exit the vehicle and run around while his vehicle just sits there?

Of course not. Again, it could operate just like Druid forms: You hit a button, and poof! You're inside a mech. Hit the button again and "poof!" you're a Goblin or Gnome running around as normal. It's pretty simple really.

Would we have that shitty hud that pops up whenever you pilot a vehicle?

I doubt it. It would probably the the exact same HUD as any other class.

I just don't see how a vehicle-based class would work in this game.

Hopefully this helps you.

Thanks for your previous post though, it was a good read.

You're welcome.

- - - Updated - - -

Youre talking about a gameplay point of view. No one is aruging that. Anyone can create a different rotation of the same flavor. I can create a totally different unholy deaht knight rotation if I wanted but its still a fucking unholy death knight. Thematically, its the same fucking shit we already have. How can you not get this through your head already. A dark spellcaster who summons undead and uses plague/poison/disease/whatever the fuck you want which is the same mix of warlock and death knight. STOP ASKING FOR NECROMANCER.

Given the problems of the Demonology summoning spec, the Necromancer has become even less likely to appear.

[Dormie]

Ranged tank just isn't a possibility with how WoW works.

[Rurin]

Melee dps would be pointless with a ranged tank.

Not really, you'd just have to run with the boss

The only problem is bosses with ranged attacks. If every boss in the game happened to be melee for some reason, ranged tanks could work.

- - - Updated - - -

Ranged tank just isn't a possibility with how WoW works.

Yeah, that's true. It's still an interesting thought however.

[Teriz]

Ranged tank just isn't a possibility with how WoW works.

It's certainly possible, but after what happened with Mistweavers, Blizzard seems content with sticking with what works instead of novelty concepts.

If there's going to be another tanking spec, its almost assuredly going to be melee.

- - - Updated - - -

Same argument ive heard 3 times so ill reply to this one specifically.

Necromancer is easy to find unqieuness with you simply have more pets to use and less damage from each one, there are many ways, one I have even concepted myself that necro could be entirley distinct from Warlock.

If you look at what happened with the Demonology spec in Legion, its quite clear that the community isn't really into a spec or class that summons weak minions that eventually build up to more powerful minions. They just want to summon big and powerful minions period, which is exactly what UH does right now.

In all seriousness, what is the more likely scenario here? Blizzard to remove multiple abilities from one of the most popular classes in the game and shove it into another (more than likely) 2-spec class with little design space, or simply add more Necromancer abilities to the UH spec?

Dark Ranger is not close to a hunter at all, and also Horde specific is subjective, its not impossible that during the time the Gilneans were fighting gurrelia wars in Silverpine that they havent taken Banshee captives and tortured them for information on their arts, there are still ARugal worgen that could easily fit the feel of a Dark Ranger.

Hunters currently have Black Arrow, which raises an undead minion when it kills a target. That's really their only defining trait beyond possessing people, which is Shadow Priest territory. Additionally, a Dark Ranger is going to have shots just like the Hunter class. Survival Hunter went melee because it felt too similar to other Hunter specs because of shots being a feature of the class. Now they're supposedly going to make another class with multiple specs that feature MORE shots?

Finally, it doesn't help that BfA is looking to be the expansion that focuses on Sylvannas, and is a new race expansion, not a new class expansion.

As with the Necromancer, a better option would be to simply reintroduce the Dark Ranger MM Hunter talent, and give it a few DR-style abilities.

[Challenge]

It's certainly possible, but after what happened with Mistweavers, Blizzard seems content with sticking with what works instead of novelty concepts.

If there's going to be another tanking spec, its almost assuredly going to be melee.

Nah, they are still doing it with things like disc. Ranged tank just seems clunky from a design pov since tanks are about boss positioning too. Best way I can think of a ranged tank is like Rexxar in heroes of the storm where you have a pet actually tanking the boss and you micromanage your pet.

Which could possibly work if you and your pet had some sort of link that caused you to share health pools and buffs/debuffs so healers can still interact with the player. Youd just have to actually use move pet a lot to get bosses in positions you need. Its not entirely unreasonable but if any spec gets it, it really should be survival hunters not a brand new class.

[Teriz]

Nah, they are still doing it with things like disc. Ranged tank just seems clunky from a design pov since tanks are about boss positioning too. Best way I can think of a ranged tank is like Rexxar in heroes of the storm where you have a pet actually tanking the boss and you micromanage your pet.

Which could possibly work if you and your pet had some sort of link that caused you to share health pools and buffs/debuffs so healers can still interact with the player. Youd just have to actually use move pet a lot to get bosses in positions you need. Its not entirely unreasonable but if any spec gets it, it really should be survival hunters not a brand new class.

Hmm, I'd actually be down for Survival to become a tanking spec (ranged or otherwise). I was hoping they would make the spec DW so that it would better match Rexxar, so yeah that would be pretty cool if the spec resembled the HotS version of Rexxar.

[Challenge]

I mean the spec is called survival, kinda has a tanky overtone to it

Mail
Pet main tanking
Potential axe thrower?

could cover a lot of new bases and be more popular than it current is. I think its the least played spec in the game atm?

[Rhamses]

Very interesting. I had no idea that Blizzard intended to create an Undermine continent (or that there was one in Beta), or that Blizzard wants players to return to Kezan (happening in the next expansion) and to eventually open up Undermine in future content.

For a long time I had no idea how they would make a Tinker-based expansion. An expansion based around the Undermine would definitely fit the bill.

Yeah, that really solves one big piece of the puzzle, since all of us were struggling to figure out a proper expansion that could fit a Goblin/Gnome expansion. Heck, an Undermine expansion with Gazlowe on the cover in a mech suit would work perfectly!

This development really puts Tinker exactly where the other expansion classes were at before their introduction. I really hope Blizzard does it. It would be something new and interesting, add one of the most original class concepts in Warcraft, and finally give Goblins and Gnomes some much needed lore.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

[Gwiez]

Tinker is still not a good idea for a class, for all the same reasons. A tinker is a kind of engineer that creates novel and innovative inventions. Hundreds of tinkers plopping out identical devices does not fit the idea of a tinker. And there's just not enough to it to make it into a class.
You can RP a tinker if you want, with mounts, engineering items, and xmog.

Demon Hunter was never a long shot.

[frogger237]

Nah, they are still doing it with things like disc. Ranged tank just seems clunky from a design pov since tanks are about boss positioning too. Best way I can think of a ranged tank is like Rexxar in heroes of the storm where you have a pet actually tanking the boss and you micromanage your pet.

Which could possibly work if you and your pet had some sort of link that caused you to share health pools and buffs/debuffs so healers can still interact with the player. Youd just have to actually use move pet a lot to get bosses in positions you need. Its not entirely unreasonable but if any spec gets it, it really should be survival hunters not a brand new class.

Yeah positioning would prob be the hardest thing to deal with when trying to make a ranged tank.

Like for example lets say blizzard makes a blood mage tank, you can't have it kiting all the time because its going to fuck up all the melee who now need to follow the boss and watch out for mechanics so its going to need something in melee range of the boss that the boss can hit.

In order to keep the bosses in the places you want you could have them use a blood simulacrum that tanks the boss while the mage deals damage from range/drains blood from the boss in order to maintain the clone as well as keep the bosses focus on it. But even then when you need to move the boss you will need some type of way to move the simulacrum either with you swapping places with it then moving to a position you want, keeping the player model in place while any movement you use works on the simulacrum as long as its active, or just letting you move it to a position with a skill.

[Teriz]

Tinker is still not a good idea for a class, for all the same reasons. A tinker is a kind of engineer that creates novel and innovative inventions. Hundreds of tinkers plopping out identical devices does not fit the idea of a tinker. And there's just not enough to it to make it into a class.

Except the lore behind your character in WoW is that you're one of a kind, or a hero among everyone else. This was shown clear as day in Legion where you became the leader of whatever group you belonged to. Among the Death Knights you became a "Deathlord", among Shaman you became The Farseer, etc. There's not hundreds of thousands of Deathlords running around, just like there isn't hundreds of thousands of Tinkers running around doing what you're supposedly doing as the "hero". It stands to reason that the player Tinker would be considered something above and beyond your common everyday Tinker.

As for there not being enough to make into a class, that's pretty laughable. Considering that the mechanical theme is almost completely absent within the class system of WoW you could make a pretty wide variety of specs for the Tinker;

Melee/Tanking: Tinkers in Heavy armored suits using melee weapons, Saw-blades, short-range canons and shields.
Demolition/Siegecrafter: Tinkers Specializing in explosives, flame throwers, and canons.
Arsenal: Tinkers specializing in using a wide variety of weaponry, from turrets to lasers to missiles, to gravity weapons.
Chemist: Tinkers that utilize chemicals as weapons or to heal others.
Robotics: Tinkers that specialize in constructing robots who assist them in combat or healing
Experimental Tech: Tinkers who specialize in non-Azerothian technology like Titan, Legion, and Naaru technology.

What's that, like six specs? And I'm sure that Blizzard could come up with loads more.

You can RP a tinker if you want, with mounts, engineering items, and xmog.

You can RP anything if you want. Saying that you can just RP "X" is not a good reason to exclude a class from the game.

[Drilnos]

How would a mech class work though? Like would the class always be inside a mech? Would the pilot exit the vehicle and run around while his vehicle just sits there? Would we have that shitty hud that pops up whenever you pilot a vehicle?

I just don't see how a vehicle-based class would work in this game.

Thanks for your previous post though, it was a good read.

One way I could see a mech-based tank work that wouldn't duplicate a druid's mechanics would be this. You have a spell which summons a vehicle. Out of combat, it requires a short cast time. In combat, it requires a long cast time. It has a separate health bar from the tinker, and has all of the damage mitigation. It tracks how much health it has when dismissed, so you can't just resummon it for a full heal. If the mech is dead, resummoning it restores a bit of health. When dismissed, it disappears, rather than leaving it on the battlefield to jump back into at the same spot. When in it, instead of a vehicle hud it simply has its own toolbar, like a form, or stealth. The tinker would have access to all his baseline abilities, because he's in an open cockpit. However, he'd also have access to the mech's abilities.

In this implementation, the tinker himself would be very squishy. The object would be to not let the mech die, but if it did, it wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world - this would be a riff on a self-rez, like a shaman ankh, but requiring the skill and/or teamwork to avoid death long enough to repair the mech. One possible cooldown could be a self-destruct, where if the mech is close to death the tinker can eject out like a disengage and cause the mech to explode behind him, stunning/slowing surrounding enemies and buying time for repairs.

Another possible gameplay aspect this opens up is purposefully abandoning the mech. Say if a boss is winding up a mega attack that other tanks would be expected to live through, a tinker might not be given any cooldown to do that, but could instead respond to this situation by setting the mech on decoy mode and jumping out, sacrificing the mech to the hit as it covers his retreat. Without another tank to take over after the mech dies, the tinker would probably be killed before he could repair it, but this would otherwise be a safer than normal way of dealing with massive hits, and a tanking niche the tinker could climb into.

[Darktbs]

Except the lore behind your character in WoW is that you're one of a kind, or a hero among everyone else. This was shown clear as day in Legion where you became the leader of whatever group you belonged to. Among the Death Knights you became a "Deathlord", among Shaman you became The Farseer, etc. There's not hundreds of thousands of Deathlords running around, just like there isn't hundreds of thousands of Tinkers running around doing what you're supposedly doing as the "hero". It stands to reason that the player Tinker would be considered something above and beyond your common everyday Tinker..

Yes and No.

At the same time the player is unique in the aspect that he is more powerfull then the rest, he is the strongest of a bunch.

An example:
The Player Dk is the strongest among the Dks but there is a large group of Dks of where the player came from.

There is one snowflake Night elf paladin but there isn't a group of Night elf paladins from where the PLayer can be created.

The player is not born a special snowflake, he rise among the common and become a snowflake.

You can RP anything if you want. Saying that you can just RP "X" is not a good reason to exclude a class from the game.

How rich of you, considering you told people to play a Dk, go range and pretend to be a Necromancer.