Classic must be tuned higher than it was in 2004

[Daffan]

No it doesn't. It's still the same numbers for bosses and gear, as you progress through the patches. You just use the 1.12 talents.

Which make you more powerful, and nobody knows if they are doing progressive, if they aren't - it's even worse.

[Redecle]

you never experienced the bottle neck in vanilla nothing else compares to it you should stop talking maybe

it was so bad people dumped their characters and moved to other servers

And you don't now how the classic launch will be, cause no one does. Cause it's not fucking here ýet.
You don't know how many realms there will be, how many players, you don't know how many will be picking what race to play, what faction are they going to be playing.
You don't know if bugs are fixed for it, or if more new bugs appear with the developing.
Classic launch =/= vanilla launch. Not down to every single detail, like it was in 2004, cause that's impossible to replicate.
Only thing you've said there will be is the bottleneck, that's one variable in the situation.
What if people dump their characters and move to other servers now? What if there's one realm where some famous youtuber/streamer chooses to play and a lot of people start on that realm, just because of that, less strain on other realms. What if there's only one classic realm and everyone has to play there? Everyone is totally fucked cause it's likely going to crash. You're acting high and mighty cause you experienced vanilla wow launch bottleneck, like after that you know every single fucking detail about this game, get off your high horse dude.

[Slashnox]

If we agree it has to be tuned higher then they're gonna start thinking about adding Mythic modes or whatever and that will just ruin it so just leave it unchanged

[WinningOne]

Hmm, I wonder if anyone remembers how difficult it was for players to understand the concept of CC'ing mobs before pulling the group. With that mechanic alone I think you're going to find the difficulty level of the PvE content will be far more difficult than current content.

[Easo]

I love how some people want the original 8 debuff slots only, to "get that classic feeling".
Ok then, remove BG's, most of raids and a lot of other content cause those weren't in at launch. I guess all bugfixes which came in later patches are also a no no.
In fact, Alpha was the real vanilla!

[Deleted]

To me it seems like people want it to stay as it was, which is easy familiar and fully explored. There is this myth about how vanilla is the toughest and most hardcore of games and people want at the same time to not have a challenge but say they have overcame one.

[Redecle]

they already said there will be no cross servers or phasing

WHAT? Where did I say cross realms or phasing? Nowhere!
I have said cross realms or phasing will be in vanilla 0 TIMES. 0! Cause they will NOT be. Get that through your thick skull.
Why are you repeating that?

BTW.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Timeli...d_of_Warcraft)
November 23 - World of Warcraft launches in North America, Australia and New Zealand. In 2004.
So the game launched 23. November 2004 in the US.

Here's a forum post from 03. Of December 2004.
http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/arch...?t-346145.html
Where it states that the player who reached WORLD FIRST level 60 character in vanilla WoW, was on that date level 58.

It took him 10 days to level to 58 in vanilla wow. The first who reached level 60, Troll rogue named Xenif on Stormreaver US. Look it up.
10 DAYS plus whatever the last 2 levels took him to reach 60.
BUT it DID NOT take months like you claimed. 10 days is not the same 4 days obviously, but it's not 2 months either.
He speed leveled in vanilla when game was launched.

Makes me think that you actually didn't even level in vanilla or maybe you did, but you were one of those who rage quit or dumped their first character and switched realms and took months to level.

[evogsr]

I know my guild had some power players who were only working part time and not going to school. It had taken them maybe 2 or so months to get to 60. No one person in my guild focused strictly on leveling up and nothing else. There were distractions all around.

That was on a PvP server, where any time even a small fight broke out, it'd turn into a much larger fight that would last a couple of hours. Messages would go world wide, people would drop whatever it was they were doing and fly out to join the fray. It was great.

[Deleted]

4 days of /played (which is definitely not 4 days where you were playing) is a pretty mad dash for 60. That's speedleveling of the highest order.

I think Joana got his time just below 5 days /played at some point. This is probably the best known speed runner in vanilla.

[Redecle]

your comparing the most retarded grinder type of player to normal players

this is where your problem is

there is a big difference between possible and probable

i dont know if english is your first language but learn the difference between those two words it is very important

Says the person, who so far hasn't shown the capability to even read and comprehend basic English sentences.
Someone who keeps arguing about sharding and cross servers, when those things have never even been part of this conversation.
Who doesn't use punctuation to make sentences make sense half the time, but since we are on a forum, i'll give you that much wiggling room.
Looking the way you write i wouldn't even try to smite someone about proper English.

But to the point, all this time i have been speaking of those your mentioned "retarded grinder" type of players, not normal players.
I'm one of those grinders, in case you still haven't figured that out, it's how i play this game, it's how i've played this game for a decade now, it's how my friends and a lot of guild mates play this game. I told you at the start, i play this game 12-16 hours every day of the week and i have done so for quite a long time now. By your definition that's a "retarded grinder".
Call them retarded all you want, that's how some of us play this game.

I'm not comparing them to normal people, I have not been arguing that an average player coming to classic will level up in 4 days, week or even a month. Or that an average player will have a bunch of alts, cause they won't. An average player doesn't even have a bunch of alts in Legion.
Let me ask you how many characters you have?

I have 14x max level 110 characters currently on retail, on top of that I had 3x max level 60 characters on Nostalrius + 1 other level 60 character on other vanilla private server and 1x level 70 character on tbc private server.
Does that sound like a normal average wow player?
And that's not for bragging or showing off, if you ask any normal person, that sounds like someone has wasted a lot of their life playing video games. I'm just wondering if to you that sounds like something an average wow player does?

This whole time i have been talking about realm first level 60 characters, trying to get to level 60 as fast as possible, realm first raid kills, players who race and speed level trying to reach that, guilds that race to complete raid tiers first, people who try to do that stuff, whether they fail or succeed. NONE of that is what average normal wow players do.
There will be people who will never reach level 60.

By saying 4 days, it means the current record which is /played 4 days 20 hours something, that's 4 full days not 5.
Although I said it might be more, cause that was indeed one of the fastest time.
But along those markers, if that's 4, 5, 6 days in played, that's something i could have specified, a week or my assumed maximum which was 2 weeks in real life. But you don't need bots or turnshifts to even do that in a week in real life, with solid 7-8 hours of sleep you can still do that in under a week.
General point was people doing nothing else but leveling as fast as they can, they will reach level 60 in that time period. As fast as possible.
If the bottleneck is that bad, that it causes hell of Earth to break loose, fine it won't be 4 days. But there will be players level 60 in the coming first 2 weeks of launch, i would still say the first week, but for your comfort let's stick with 2 weeks, happy now?
If 4 days is impossible because of bottlenecks or server crashes, then it simply will be impossible. Then it's the next probable time, but the "retarded grinders" will not be taking 2 months to level up.
That's all i'm saying, when you've said no one will be racing to level 60. I'm saying yes there will be. They have been doing that over a decade now.
Whether and which ones of them will be successful, remains to be seen.

After that it will be a race who can clear raids first, just like it has been every expansion and even vanilla. Guilds competed of world first back then. It took months of time, but the problem was the game was new, getting 40 players to raid, first the guilds had to recruit those players, and then all of them had to learn what do on each boss.
Computers were shitty in performance, that's why there's a joke going around that hardest vanilla boss was 3 fps computers, 13 year old game relaunched will be running 100 fps minimum on every current generation pc, no more lagging. People used shitty internet connections and disconnected constantly, broadbands were expensive.
Coming classic launch, how to kill the bosses are known, there's guides, what spec you should be, there's guides. What's BIS pre-raid gear for said specs and where to get it is known. You farm it out, instead of doing math which is better this or that piece of gear.
In vanilla people where figuring that out as they progressed. Now the math is already done. Nobody needs to theorycraft anything, unless they absolutely want to. For god's sake we have guilds on private servers speed clearing all the vanilla raids, cause it's the only thing left that's even remotely challenging for them.
The first part is getting 40 people again. For that we have private server players, retail server raiders, veteran vanilla wow raiders, gloating that classic is coming back and they want to get back in there.
Classic was announced at Blizzcon it doesn't even have a dev team, but I for example have guild already. I have currently a 43 member raiding guild going to raid classic when it launches, which might even be 5 years in the future. That's how psyched people are about it. And those people want to raid.
We are talking about people who during progression raid 5-7 nights a week and are motivated to do that.
Any "normal" player probably won't be, but again this was never about the normal average wow player.
This was about the players who would probably sell their 2nd kidney for a world first kill, if that would help them to achieve it.

[barrsftw]

it'd defeat the purpose of the project.

The purpose of the project is to give players who've been asking for Vanilla what they want. The purpose isn't for it to be some super challenging end game.

[OrcsRLame]

you never experienced the bottle neck in vanilla nothing else compares to it you should stop talking maybe

it was so bad people dumped their characters and moved to other servers

If the bottleneck was that bad, modern players competing for realm firsts will just do dungeons. That's how I got realm first 85 warrior in Cata. Skipped Mount Hyjal by zerging through BRC.

In a lot of ways, it's a lot like a new Diablo 3 season. You'll have that small minority of groups that stays up for 3 days straight at the start and then after that sleeps for only 4-6 hours a night.

[Eapoe]

WHAT? Where did I say cross realms or phasing? Nowhere!
I have said cross realms or phasing will be in vanilla 0 TIMES. 0! Cause they will NOT be. Get that through your thick skull.
Why are you repeating that?

BTW.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Timeli...d_of_Warcraft)
November 23 - World of Warcraft launches in North America, Australia and New Zealand. In 2004.
So the game launched 23. November 2004 in the US.

Here's a forum post from 03. Of December 2004.
http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/arch...?t-346145.html
Where it states that the player who reached WORLD FIRST level 60 character in vanilla WoW, was on that date level 58.

It took him 10 days to level to 58 in vanilla wow. The first who reached level 60, Troll rogue named Xenif on Stormreaver US. Look it up.
10 DAYS plus whatever the last 2 levels took him to reach 60.
BUT it DID NOT take months like you claimed. 10 days is not the same 4 days obviously, but it's not 2 months either.
He speed leveled in vanilla when game was launched.

Makes me think that you actually didn't even level in vanilla or maybe you did, but you were one of those who rage quit or dumped their first character and switched realms and took months to level.

What you need to look at is /played, not days spent. There's 240 hours on a day, and if he spent ALL time available, that means he botted or took turns rotating in and out of playing with others.
Now, I've power leveled at a launch date, and for 10 levels it takes me roughly 18-24 hours depending on the xpac and how many bugs or bottlenecks occur. That's 10 levels! Let's say, just for arguement, Classic was the same time frame (we know it's not), and for 60 levels it would take me at least 108 hours of playtime. An average gamer devotes anywhere from 2-8 hours a day to video games. At the high end of that average, that's something around 14 days of playtime to hit max level. For the low end, that's 54 days played. So, for average players (read: people not botting or swapping in and out with others), to reach max level you are talking 2 weeks to almost 2 months of play.
It's easy to see why people state it took months, as people always remember the grind and how the leveling grind took much longer back in 04 than it does now.

[superhumanj]

Classic must be tuned exactly like it was in 2004. I want to have access to Classic WoW, not some new, interesting experience. ACTUAL CLASSIC.

It's like my copy of Super Mario 64. So many outdated concepts in that game, but I want it that way.

you take that back about mario that game was perfect

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taDfDfWyKWQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbqFQNeWLTU this is what vanilla wow raiding looks like today, but it's fine leave it it's what people want.

[epLe]

you take that back about mario that game was perfect

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taDfDfWyKWQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbqFQNeWLTU this is what vanilla wow raiding looks like today, but it's fine leave it it's what people want.

Nah, none progressed in MC, BWL, AQ or Naxx in 1.12. Only pirate servers, and some deluded people think that's something close to Vanilla.

[Nitros14]

you take that back about mario that game was perfect

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taDfDfWyKWQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbqFQNeWLTU this is what vanilla wow raiding looks like today, but it's fine leave it it's what people want.

Let's be honest no one got a million world buffs or flasked to do molten core and blackwing lair in vanilla. Or had 1.12 talents when it was current. Or stacked 12 rogues and 12 warriors in AQ gear.

[Essem]

Raiding in vanilla aint gonna be like people remember it to be. If uve been raiding mythic, going to vanilla is like going to Normal raiding, thats tuned high but with NO mechanics. On Kronos for example, Naxx was cleared 3 or 4 days after it was released there i think.

If everything was unlocked from the start. Id give it a month after people start in MC until all raiding content is done. And thats just because you need a certain amount of gear, not because people need to learn anything. Vanilla raiding was great for its time, but dont think its just going to be another WoW expansion in terms of raiding theese days.

[Nitros14]

Raiding in vanilla aint gonna be like people remember it to be. If uve been raiding mythic, going to vanilla is like going to Normal raiding, thats tuned high but with NO mechanics. On Kronos for example, Naxx was cleared 3 or 4 days after it was released there i think.

If everything was unlocked from the start. Id give it a month after people start in MC until all raiding content is done. And thats just because you need a certain amount of gear, not because people need to learn anything. Vanilla raiding was great for its time, but dont think its just going to be another WoW expansion in terms of raiding theese days.

Even if it had mechanics like today it would be cleared fast because people have already done it.

If you re-released mythic Nighthold or Siege of Orgrimmar or Hellfire Citadel today they'd all be cleared instantly by someone because tons of people have already learned how to do those fights and remember them.

[epLe]

Pirate servers are not comparable to Vanilla.
Not even close in any way but "Vanilla lookalike".

Yes the experienced people will clear it abit faster.
Public tactics is also a pretty huge nerf to the raiding experience.
But these are not main factors when it comes to raiding in Vanilla.

If they don't do stupid stuff like start at 1.12 or release every raid from start.
And also get the numbers right :

Handling the raidsquad, roster, gearing alone will make it go almost as slow as it as it did in Vanilla.
Yes we blasted through MC and BWL on one night, but never speedrun in AQ or Naxx.

Just clearing the trash there took a decent amount time, on pirate servers the little trash thats left has been stripped of abilities.

Getting the people who depend on all the modern handhelding, to accept how vanilla raiding is will be taking its toll.
And probably cause more time lost progressing, than gained from XP and such for most guilds.

[Lasombria]

Class changes was so dramatic in 1.12 that those few weeks was very different, than what most refer to as Vanilla.

When people remember how their class played in MC, BWL, AQ and naxx - it was all prior to 1.12.

I went and looked at the patch notes, and found this one: "A soul shard will be refunded to the caster any time a summoned pet despawns rather than dies."

I'd forgotten all about that, but now the memories come back...as soon as you had a mount, and up until 1.12, you could - and warlocks and hunters did - spend a lot of time re-summoning pets, because it was Very Easy <tm> to outpace them when riding. For a busy warlock, that could easily add up to a bag's worth of shards in the hours before a raid. It was a noticeable gift of free time.

It's not a huge thing, but it did affect play, and it's the kind of thing you miss out on with a static rules set. The earlier behavior wasn't a bug, it's just something that turned out to be more of a problem than the devs realized once a lot of us were riding, particularly once a lot of us were riding the faster mounts.