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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Yah and whenthe warrior gets a parry they’d do less damage with a dagger when their next auto-attack was sped up by 50%.

    One other thing, how good questing is now is really unsung here. Warlords, which I didn’t particularly care to raid in, had some unbelievable quest chains in cinematics in Taladar, Nagrand, and Terrokar or whatever they’re called. Legion...Val’sharah is amazing.

    Questing in original WoW was fun but IMO there’s no denying the in-game and rendered cinematics add so much more depth.

    And let’s not forget voice acting wasn’t a thing beyond the scripted few sentences until...Cata?

    Oh and I never mentioned phasing either.
    I don't think anything you mentioned really offers much in terms of story-telling in wow. I certainly am not a fan of cinematics, they quickly divorce you from the world as you lose control of your character and are no longer responsible for your actions. Phasing has been a fairly minor part of the story as areas are not changing because of the story, they just are changed. Phasing connects two end points without filling in the middle. And as far as the voice acting is concerned, I think that is subjective, personally I find the voice acting to be jarring. I'm not sure what has changed with it, perhaps it is something as silly as the fidelity, but often times the voice acting of late in blizzard games seems off.

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    hey you forgot that soulshards vanished 30 minutes after logging out.
    So horus of farming your bags full of soulshards could end with you getting dced and logging back in to find them all gone.
    /s look at signature
    Soul shards did not disappear. They were bound to you.

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by takeshiIsu View Post
    Typically those that say there was no grinding were people who joined later and want to appear cool by saying they were there from the beginning. its pretty sad, but if you want to do that because you think it matters how you look on here, thats your insecurities.

    No back pedaling at all, its the difference between being a realist and being a pillock, you chose the later.

    Sure you can say "if you do 100% of everything then there is enough quests", but if 99% of the playerbase dont, then thats a meaningless statement as it does not bear resemblance to reality and actual played experience.

    Also you can also say, there was a lot of grinding with quests in vanilla, killing many many many times as many mobs as the quest should need, but I'll not worry your simple little black and white mind with nuance like that.
    This is such a pathetic I’m trying to sound intelligent without a real argument statement.

    Also, there were enough quest. It was just more efficient to grind than to zone hop. Yes this is poor design, but that doesn’t mean there weren’t enough quest. The complaint should be there weren’t enough quest in each zone or the adjoining zones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Anastacy View Post
    Nostalgia is a heavy, heavy weight.
    For some it may be nostalgia, but the popularity of private servers show that for many it’s much more than that.

    I’m not going to lie, I’m excited for this but I think it’s due to nostalgia. I’m not a fan of the vanilla leveling experience so I don’t think I’ll even make it to 60...
    Last edited by DrStiglit; 2017-11-27 at 08:56 AM.

  4. #524
    what classic was like?? from a warrior prespective we had recklessness , retaliate and shield wall on a share 30min cd ! YEAH SHARED 30 MINUTES CD,slam had a cast time i cant wait for classic servers!!

  5. #525
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    There were advantages of fast weapons for warrior tanking - during classic, TBC, and possibly a bit beyond; or at least people told you there were advantages.

    However, as I recall at some point it was speed compared to default for the weapon type - so a fast axe worked fine - but not a dagger. I can't remember if that was classic or not.
    Weapon speed doesn't matter outside of white swings since 1.8 iirc, it's either "one-hander" speed, "two-hander" or "dagger" for your damaging abilities. Yes, you hit faster, yes, you get rage more often (thanks to one talent that later was nerfed to take weapon speed into account and wasn't relevant anymore), but in general you only make things worse for yourself when tanking a boss with a dagger in hands
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by Altarion View Post
    And despite all your negativity, Vanilla WoW was a massive success. Have you stopped to ask yourself why the game was so successful? Perhaps you should.
    Word of mouth? It was far more casual compared to any other MMO on the market? It played well compared to other mmos and had blizzards unique art style. Had great marketing as well.

    Have you ever heard of churn? You might want to read up on it. The games had well over 100 million players in its life time. Each expansion and the original game had players leaving constantly. It was simply masked through Vanilla, TBC and wrath by new players replacing them. In cata this changed less new players coming in to replace those lost.

    For it's time wow was fantastic, I enjoyed it so much. It had a lot of faults though a hell of a lot. Compared to the rest of the market it was still leaps and bounds ahead. I will also give classic wow a shot as my brother + irl friends are going to play it. Hopefully I can ignore the shit parts enough to enjoy it again.

  7. #527
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smellyflute View Post
    Soul shards did not disappear. They were bound to you.
    i...did you read the last line of my post?
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Remove combat, Mobs, PvP, and Difficult Content

  8. #528
    High Overlord salkz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    ...
    General Changes:

    There was (were) no:

    --...Monks...
    --...Pandaren...
    ...
    Good. I'm sold. Vanilla hype here I come!

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

    The most important things if you did not play vanilla:


    --DPS was much lower relative to mob health than it is now. Most toons were wearing greens and only wanted to fight one mob at a time. It took about twenty seconds to kill a mob. A mage fighting one mob would probably use three-quarters of his mana, and a rogue would be near death at the end. Then the mage would have to drink or the rogue would have to bandage. Aggroing a second mob came with a significant risk of dying. And at max level you still had to fight a lot because there was no flight.
    - Actually this is bit of a legend because as people started learn their class well and accumulate more gear towards the end of vanilla, open world mobs became quite trivial. In raids, dps wasn't really that low in vanilla, it was just that gear-barrier to entry into raids were much lower and there was no hard enrage timer so raids with much lower overall dps could attempt and kill raid bosses (and people usually have more memories of those first raids they did). When people had current content gear, the raids were actually extremely fast similar to current content today. If people had on-par gear requirement to the LFG groups of today, all raids would last an hour or 2 with the exception of Naxx. Just to put it in perspective: the first time we raided MC as a 40 man group in all blues(I think we had literally zero epics except for a few random world drops and 1-2 end dungeon epics), it took us 3 hours to clear to lucifron and then magmadar, at the end of the raid, we were exhausted from clear trash and just downing 2 bosses and called it a day until tomorrow and started again on 3rd boss. Fast forward a year or so, we would go to do onxyia, get our 2 hour buffs from orgrimmar, speed through MC and then clear BWL (if we didn't mess up and wipe anywhere) in a single 5 hour long raid night.
    Fun fact, the one boss that my guild never, ever wiped in the entirely of vanilla content was golemagg, one shotted on the first time we attempted it and every time after.


    --Reputation grinds were absurd. They didn't reward much so it wasn't as big a deal, but even getting to honored with the Argent Dawn took many, many runs (bosses dropped an item that gave 50 rep...so one person in 10 would get 50 rep every time the group killed a boss).
    - Almost everyone in my guild who was in the naxx team already had revered or exalted level rep with argent dawn just because it was one of the most popular factions in the game with quite an iconic location and zone. It was also one of the easier factions to gain rep with compared to crazy reps like shendalar
    and the slow genocide kill grind of timber maw hold


    --Mobs in many places were much closer to together and many ran away from you at about 10% health. Pulling dungeons was like undoing a complicated knot with a ten-minute penalty for every failure.
    Devs were quite aware of how hard the mobs were to kill initially. Outside in the open world, mobs were actually quite spread from each other and usually never agreed anyone if you stayed on the main roads (especially in a zone for your level or below). During raids and dungeons, close packs were never a problem except for the beginning of the dungeon because experience groups always stayed waaaay back and let a hunter or a warrior and healer to bring back the mobs to a safe space.

    --There were some aspects of the game that were enormously fun if you were on the "winning" team and enormously annoying if you were on the "losing" team. Raids of capital cities was one of these things. They were fairly common despite not having an in-game reward, but in terms of server stability they were a mess. Orgrimmar / Ironforge were pretty laggy to begin with because of the solo Auction House, then 40-100 players of the opposing faction would suddenly crash the front door and all hell would break loose. It was iconic and a blast if you wanted to participate, but if you were just trying to do auctions / bank stuff / leave it was a nightmare. If the raid killed the flight master you had to walk to the next nearest city or wait for it to respawn. The opposing raid could kill the auctioneers, the bankers, the flight master. Players with bad internet connections had little chance of staying connected. Even players with decent ones were prone to being randomly DCed.

    Getting DCed on capital raids were a real problem for sure! But it was a lot less of a chaos and a lot more of a serious organization then you would think. People would organize 2 raids one for defense and one for killing the faction leader. One raid would defend the entrance to the boss room while the other one took out the boss. The longer you stayed in a faction capital, the riskier it got that the other faction would form a counter raid to crush you and it is a much bigger problem if you wiped in the opposing capital because of the long corpse run and being alone when you ressed and corpse camped. Usually people took the most direct route to the enemy faction leader, killed it, and bailed quickly. There were also "dishonorable" kills if anyone in your raid killed a non aggressive NPC which was a stain your your honorable kill record forever and could affect your ranking for the week which people tried to avoid especially hardcore PVPers.
    Another fun fact - SAURFANG was extremely OP in early vanilla and had a prominent position at the entrance of ORG. Unsuspecting ally raids wiped on him even before they could reach Thrall, he could cleave groups down in 1 hit, which gave birth to the Chuck Norris/Saurfang jokes back in the day.


    --Epics simply weren't available outside of raiding. The end bosses of the 10/15-man dungeons each had a 1% chance to drop a weapon, making them extremely rare. Also due to their rarity you'd have to roll against everyone else in the group because no one else had them either. Nexus Crystals, the enchanting material from disenchanting epics, were nearly priceless. Because epics were so hard to get and also because 20 or 40 people in a raid had to pass on them to be disenchanted, I think the 1% chance from disenchanting a blue was the primary source of them. There were a few craftable epics that required tons of materials that were on a multi-day cooldown to make, such as mooncloth, cured rugged hides, and arcanite.
    - This is a "lone wolf" mentality which didn't really exist back in vanilla. You would either be in a large guild or be left behind just because of how hard it was to collect necessary materials for literally everything + quests and attunements that required the help of the group. I remember running BRD and BRS almost everyday helping newbies in the guild to get attuned to raids and key runs for people who didnt have keys to certain dungeons. We would disenchant unwanted raid gear and distribute it among the raid or sell BOEs and mats and spread to gold among the group. The community play really wasn't optional back then, would be extremely hard to get things done alone.


    --I saw from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-vthkgMT-8 that I think in the very very beginning that a 40-man raid boss dropped ONE epic item. By the time I killed Lucifron, though, I'm pretty sure it was up to 2 tier pieces and 1 non-tier piece, as in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rSNIxos60U -

    I don't remember ever having only 1 piece per boss, the lowest I remember is 2 but I could be mistaken. I do remember MC bosses having both tier 1 and tier 2 gear in their loot tables and the tier 2 gear being butt ugly before it was updated and put in BWL. Early raiding in MC gave a big head start to some guilds because they had a bunch of tier 2 gear before BWL

    --Not all items had stamina, and if they did it counted against their stat budget for other stats
    - As far as I remember, all raid epics had stamina, and pvp epics had a higher stamina in the budget portion as well. One reason Warriors were so shit dps in the beginning was that their raid sets had no dps bonus + secondary stats designed around avoidance as well a higher % of budget on their set pieces going to stamina cause it was designed for tanks.


    --Because the stats were so different back then many specs had gear specifically for them. Tank gear was completely different from DPS gear. Healing gear was completely different from DPS gear. Prot warrior basically had its own gear, all healing specs basically had their own gear, rogues had their gear but hunters could also use it. Enhancement and Elemental had their own gear. There were at least 29 different kinds of weapons: Caster DPS 1H Swords, caster DPS off-hands & shields, Caster healing 1H maces, Caster healing off-hands and shields, Caster staves, 1H strength swords/maces/axes, 2H strength swords/maces/axes/polearms, 1H agility swords/maces/axes/daggers, 2H agility maces/axes/polearms/staves, prot shields, strength bows/crossbows/guns (warriors used them as stat sticks), agility bows/crossbows/guns (hunters main weapon, stat sticks for rogues). For certain classes (combat rogue, arms warrior) it mattered if a weapon was a sword or mace because the talents for different weapon types were completely different. (I'm hamming this up a bit, but it was kind of a mess.)
    - I was a shaman main in vanilla, so speaking from the "Hybrid" perspective, actually for the most part we didn't need to carry multiple sets of gear for different specs but we had to carry multiple tiers on us for different roles. Tier 1 was perfect for healing but some of the budget in tier 2 went to healing so experienced raiders preferred some tier 1 pieces instead through out BWL as well. Tier 2.5 from AQ was an extremely hybrid mess with STR/Agi/Int all over the pieces so it was prefered choice of both elemental and enhancement hybrid dpsers.

    --People couldn't judge a player's gear (the way they can now) because itemization was so wonky. If someone had a dungeon or tier set you could tell they were experienced, but it was much harder to tell from gear if someone was bad.
    We didn't judge people's gear because to be able to raid you needed a guild, so if people was applying to the guild early in vanilla, you couldn't expect them to have gear. It was the paradoxical job ads for asking 5 year experience on entry level position but we judged people's commitment such as which attunements they had, their professions, consumables, and later on, a few specific things such as if they were exalted with AV? back then AV exalted rewards were extremely strong because it was the only way to access epic weapons outside raids and really costly crafted items (or high warlord) such as an offhand that had the highest mp5 on it until Vael in BWL so most healers would spam AV until they had it.

    --5/10/15 man dungeons dropped "dungeon tier" items, however there was no guarantee that they would drop items for a class actually in the party. So there was a pretty reasonable chance that a group could spend 75-180 minutes clearing a dungeon and then loot that could only be worn by a specific class that they didn't have would drop. (There were no tokens.) This also made PUGging a nightmare because people didn't want to join a group that already had people of their class because they really didn't want to have to roll against anyone should the items they need drop.
    - This gave birth to the "class runs" in my server and some others in which there was only 1 or 2 of each class allowed on each run and usually ran over and over with the same group.



    --There were only eight max-level dungeons for the two years and three months that vanilla lasted. (UBRS, LBRS, Strat Live, Strat Dead, Scholo, DM East, North, and West) BRD was a level 58-59 dungeon, but didn't drop the dungeon tier sets everyone wanted. - Attunements, preparation, filling the groups in /2 chat, the whole 1-2 hours it would take to clear actually made it feel like there was always something to do. I never felt like there wasn't enough of a variety in dungeons. Also, this wasn't like an expansion with a "theme", there were undead dungeons, human dungeons, beast dungeons, orc/dragon dungeons etc..



    Changes to Raids and their Design:
    --Because there were no difficulty levels, Molten Core and Onyxia were normal, Blackwing Lair was heroic, and Temple of Ahn'Qiraj (AQ40) and Naxxramas were mythic. The two 20-man raids were Zul'Gurub and Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj (AQ20), and they were roughly heroic level. Casual guilds were stuck running MC, ZG, AQ20, and Onyxia for two years.

    - I feel like by the end of vanilla, almost every guild that raids were clearing BWL as well but AQ40 and naxx were serious business. The only "raid" I ever pugged in 3 years was AQ20

    A 40-man raid team required a 50-60 man roster. It was common for us to have 50-100 people online at night times in the guild and there would be ton of people waiting at Kargath to be called into raid. It wasn't safe to wait outside the dungeon/raid cause pvp..



    --Once you started raiding, the following were de facto rules:

    As a mitigating factor talents and spec weren't as important as they are now. Many abilities were baseline and it was completely possible for shadow priests, ret pallies, balance druids, etc. to heal or tank a dungeon without respeccing. (Especially if you overgeared/were slightly higher level for it). The fact that hybrids had so many heals though changed PvP, although I personally don't know much about that.

    - For current content raids, some things were quite important like getting the tide totem in shaman resto tree. but we had good coordination among the shamans in the guild as well, some had stronger totems from enhance tree, and some head strong healing totems etc.. There wasn't 1 spec fits it all for the role builds like today.
    Hybrids were quite strong in pvp for sure, especially as an enhancement shaman, I could dip into both elemental and resto talent tree without sacrificing any damage and have strong shock/lighting bolt for the distance, healing spells, slows, interrupts, totems and gamebreaking WF proc. In theory, an enhancement shaman could 1 shot a raid boss in vanilla because WF proc had a chance to proc from the free instant hit you got from the proc (sorry for the riddle). So you could get into a continuous loop of WFing until the boss was dead.. I think I 1 would 1 shot every class at least once in a night of spamming BGs.



    --Coming prepared was much more of a chore. - People don't realize when they say that the raid mechanics in vanilla were sooo easy compared to today that he "raids" were not the afternoon you spent inside a long. Preparation mattered a LOT. Attunements, recipes, patterns, gearing up the tank, getting resistance gear, at the end of the weeks/months of work when you finally killed a boss and got it on farm, it felt like a real achievement.


    --Having a balanced healing makeup in raids was crucial because only certain classes could dispel certain things and if a raid was lop-sided one boss might be trivial while another would be impossible.

    - Not just healer composition, some bosses would be impossible without enough hunters/druids, some without locks, some with mages etc.. You needed a good amount of everything but you had 40 slots to fill so usually it wasn't a problem. Lucifron, Magmadar, Garr, majordomo, razor gore, trap room are just some examples of bosses that needed one class or another.

    --The hunter ability “Tranquilizing Shot”, which was needed for the second boss of Molten Core, Magmadar, could only be learned from a drop off the first boss of Molten Core, Lucifron. Although hardcore guilds could go without, more casual guilds needed several of these to kill Magmadar the first time, which works out to a month of killing the first boss before bagging the second. (And don't forget, during that month you would earn 9 epics divided between 40 people.) Skipping Magmadar wasn't realistic because the third boss, Gehennas, was standing in the middle of the patrol routes of two core hounds that were on a seventeen-minute respawn timer until Magmadar was killed.
    Keep in mind you also needed to kill him to dose the flame behind him to be able to summon raggy(which actually needed someone with necessary rep and item) + he was one of the easier bosses to kill that dropped raid tier so skipping him would be insane even if it didn't stop the core hound spawns. + skinning him was important but I wasn't the guild skinner/crafter and I can't remember why

    --Because the difference in ilvl from one tier to another wasn't as great, farming of the old raids never really stopped. Especially because Thunderfury, one of two legendaries from Molten Core, was BiS for rogues all the way to the end of Naxx. This was one of several reasons hardcore guilds had extremely lengthy raid schedules.
    Ahhh, you were fooled by the greedy rogues in your guild my friend!! Thunderfury was a strictly warrior/tank weapon, and there were a multiple reasons for it:
    - It was extremely fast weapon that helped with rage generation and threat.
    - It had a special proc that had a big aoe threat modifier attached to it and it also didn't stack and took the slot of thunder clap. Warriors in vanilla couldn't even use thunder clap in defensive spec so they had to switch spec to cast it to slow the boss. It was a massive relief and ease on rotation if a warrior was tanking with thunder fury that applied the debuff.
    - The aoe threat was so strong that if a dps was using it in raids, it could pull anything that the main tank wasn't focusing on to itself which was a big problem. Many rogues who fooled their guild into giving them the bindings were restricted from using it in raids the problem is.. the aoe threat was so strong and it broke CCs so they couldn't use it in dungeons either.. Rogues and hunters only walked around with it for bragging rights in capital cities or for PVP which was a massive waste compared to a tank with it. + There were better dps weapons as early as BWL so it was basically wasted on even if they managed to use it in raids.
    - The aoe threat and tanking support was so strong that warriors who had it, used it all the way up in next expansions raids at lvl 70 up into BT when more viable options came up and the aoe threat was nerfed in the previous patch.





    PvP Changes


    --Alterac Valley matches could take over twelve hours; there were no “reinforcements”. https://i.redd.it/cl2k95o1ulwz.png
    - We had one legendary AV run that took all weekend and wasn't finished by the time server reset. I wish I had SSes still


    --I didn't PvP much, but I think it's worth summarizing a thread I read entitled, “How to Get High Warlord/Grand Marshal”. The basic idea was that a month before a player wanted the top PvP title (and with it the right to buy the gear for gold), they would come home from work every day and do battlegrounds continuously from the time they got home until 2 a.m., as well as play as much as possible on the weekends. Then after three weeks of this they'd be close enough to take a week's vacation off work and play continuously for the entire week in hopes that they would be the top player of the faction in honor that week, earning the title. These titles were among the most difficult things to ever acquire in Warcraft and its why Blizzard has never re-released them.
    - Actually I did pvp grind in my servers premade for many many months and only made it as far as rank 11 My server was medium to high pop so it was probably even worse in some others. It took the high warlord friend of mine 3 weeks of NONSTOP grinding to just go from warlord to high warlord. So I would say its a bit longer then your estimate .. You needed to share account to have others farm for you at night, it was a group effort to get to high warlord.

    --I've heard that there was more of a rock / paper / scissors relationship between classes. I think rogues in particular could stun lock casters until death, and mages might have been able to kite warriors forever.
    - It was more the lack of diminishing returns, rogues if they were good/lucky could stunlock anyone to death, mage could kite forever in 1v1, locks could spam fear forever etc. The problem was everyone was a lot more squishy and there wasn't much of any self healing for pure dps classes so you only need to close the gap for a few secs to kill mage/rogue, especially a warrior with overpower against a rogue was brutal.


    --Certain specs were completely capable of one-shotting players, particularly enhancement shaman and fire mage
    - As an enhancement shaman, I can confirm, the one shots in pvp were brutal, especially with sulfuras or the 2h from aq40.





    Druid:

    Resto did have battle rez on a 30-minute cooldown, the only class that did
    - Fun fact, druids were actually not going to have any resurrection spell what so ever, and the BR was originally designed for shamans. It was quickly moved over to druids last minute before launch because they realized it would be too unbalanced to not give to alliance as well. Sorry can't find the dev interview that said it right now


    Melee:
    --Had to be incredibly careful to be behind the boss, because when an attack was parried it reduced the time to the next auto-attack by 50%.
    This remained a problem through Burning Crusade, where I believe melee could pretty easily cause Archimonde to gib the tank by having their attacks parried.

    -it was actually a lot worse then that, almost every boss had frontal cleave, or frontal aoe such as flame breath so anyone standing in front of the boss was toast. Many bosses had knock back so tanks learned to turn the boss and put their back to a wall. A lot of the raid positioning is learnt the hard way for newbie RPGers.. Dragons were even worse, they had a aoe breath, cleave, tail swipe, and possibly wing buffet! so no where was safe. You had to stand in the back corner between the wing and the tail as the only safe dps spot.




    --Some specs were really wonky. Ret paladins had almost no buttons to press and basically just AFK'd while auto-attacking mobs to death. - there was a famous paladins are for porn video on youtube about this in vanilla and it was really a big hit.



    --When the game shipped raid bosses didn't put everyone in combat on pull. This meant there were healers whose job it was to stand 80 yards back and rez people that died. Eventually a zone-wide pulse went out every two seconds, but it was still possible for engineer rogues to vanish and shock a player back to life mid-combat. Anything else that could be done out of combat, like switch gear, was also possible.
    - I shamefully admit that I had to do my part as OOC ressers for a week or two as well :P




    --Tier 1 shoulders looking so ridiculous (hunter = lampshades, paladin = bananas, druid = tree)
    --Everyone wearing a tier 2 helmet from Onyxia because they weren't that hard to get but they were impossible to replace.
    --Random legendary drops from MC that could make a big difference in progression
    - there were two legs in there, one was only aimed at the tank and required a ton of mats to make + usually took months to even have the 2 bindings on the same guy to make and other one was a drop from ragnaros + a weapon which required at least 8 near full clears to even have enough mats to make it. Don't think those 2 made a big difference in progression. Since no "pure" dps spec actually was able to use sulfuras, usually shamans got it and owned pvp with it.




    --What were the 16 debuffs that were preferred on the boss?
    1. Sunder Armor
    2. Thunderclap
    3. Improved Demoralizing Shout
    4. Hunter's Mark
    5. Thunderfury
    6. Alliance: Judgement of Wisdom
    7. Curse of Elements
    Hemorrhage?, Shadow priest +shadow damage?, Curse of Elements? Curse of Weakness/Tongues? The tank's deep wounds?
    - I agree with most on the list, except for deep wounds. Tanks that wasted a debuff slot with deep wounds were actually extremely ridiculed cause it did like no damage and very little threat.





    Things I personally liked:


    --The AQ40 gong-ringing was the most epic time ever. They never did anything like it since because it caused so many server crashes, however. -

    I loved the whole preparation for AQ40 as well, but the reason they didn't do a similar event against wasn't the crashes. It was because an extremely high population of players felt robbed of the glory. It was weeks/months of preparation and server wide effort to open the gates but, it was a limited time event that lasted like 12 hours if I remember right, and if you didnt log during that time, you missed everything. So a large population of players complained that they worked for months to not even be able to attend the actual opening of the gates which was a major letdown.



    --The number one thing I couldn't wait for BC for was so I could stop looking at Tier 2 helmets EVERYWHERE. I swear 75% of level 60 players were wearing a Tier 2 helmet all the time.
    - whats with the tier 2 helm hate :P I was one of the first shamans on the server to have the helm and after the revamp, people were drooling over it. I even got random /whisper congrats and cheers when I was in org with it. Sure towards the end of vanilla it was very common but it was extremely popular in both stats and looks.






    --If anyone could write up what Southshore / Tarren Mill was like I'd appreciate it. -

    southshore/tarren mill was basically an open world BG. When wow was first launched, there were NO BGs!! So people who hit 60 and wanted to pvp had nothing to do except world pvp. Horde players had a direct flight to tarren mill from UC and south shore had a flight from stormwind if I remember correctly so it was an extremely popular spot for 60s to meet up and dish it out in open world. It became more famous through forum talks and bragging.
    Alternative to this on Kalimdor was horde raiding ashenvale and allies raiding barrens. Ton of 60s clashed between ashen vale and barrens continuously.



    --I didn't raid hardcore back at the time, but is it safe to say Naxx guilds had a 16-hour-a-week raid schedule, and that every hour of raiding was roughly 1-2 hours of farming for prep? Note that the current requirements on private servers full of people that have been practicing Naxx for years and years are significantly different than they used to be when everything was new.
    - It depended on how organized your guild was, I never had to do any preparation before raids as a shaman, we had dedicated people farming consumables and distributing them. Also, as we got more things on farm, we got access to more things to sell on AH and the guild bank grew large enough to support our repairs and consumables.



    Things to add:
    --Onyxia Scale Cloaks - this was basically a recipe you got as a lw after killing onxyia if I remember correctly. The cloak itself was really easy to make, it required a green cloak pattern + a scale of onxyia to make and every kill usually gave around 3. You really REALLY needed this cloak on everyone for Nefarian but you could avoid it for the most part on dragons in BWL on your dps and needed it for tanks and healers.
    --Links to Leeroy video, geddon bomb, hakkar plague, moar dots
    --Explanation of reckoning bomb - Reckoning was a pally ability that gave himself a stacking buff that increased damage on the next hit every time it was critically hit. Originally this buff was stacking indefinitely so basically you could have an extremely high stack of reckoning and one shot anything. And of course people abused it and went on 1 shooting raid bosses and posting videos of it. It was quickly nerfed after that.
    --Zone flow / quests requiring transcontinental travel
    --An explanation of how the raid bosses themselves were so much easier but the logistics of a 40-man raid were so much harder
    --Links to ads for computers in 2004
    --A list of other games popular in 2004
    --Write up the attunement quests for onyxia - There is actually a detailed explanation of this quest on wowhead right now.
    --Green dragon organization
    Hey OP! thanks for the post, I read through the whole thing basically for my own nostalgia since I played from launch till the end of vanilla religiously I added some comments, and my own experiences on your quote. Considering how much work you put into the text hopefully you will read/like some of them!

  10. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    .
    Classic max level enchants = 11 (with way more choices) Live max level enchants = 8 (and shoulders/gloves aren't even dps-related anymore)

    Classic Talent Trees = 3 Individual trees with the ability to progress however you want, gaining 1 point per level Live Talent Options = Pigeon-holed into one spec abilities only, gaining 1 new ability or passive per 15 levels

    Classic attributes/secondary stats = ~22 > Live attributes/tertiary stats = 12

    Classic Racial-only Class Abilities? Yes > Live Racial-only Class Abilities? No

    Buffs/Potions/Elixirs/Flasks/Oils, etc. of Classic (too many to count but it's obvious) > Live

    Profession diversity that also affected combat Classic > Live

    Gear versions (of the Bear, Eagle, etc., +Specific Spell type, +Specific Resistance, etc., etc.) Classic > Live

    The list goes on

    Classic Classes were more unique, Factions were more unique, Racial abilities were more unique, there were almost twice as many attributes/secondary stats that you could min/max, talent tree permutations of Classic put Live to SHAME, Classic had way more enchants and more combat-related enchants, Classic professions were far superior to Live in both use and combat-relevance, and on and on and on.

  11. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    There is no advantage of fast weapon, you are literally baiting for parry-counterattack in the case of using daggers, which results in more damage taken
    Yes there is. Heroic Strike was on next melee it. In cases you didnt need the rage from auto attacks you would spam HS (on every hard hitting boss). Faster weapons = more HS = more threat. You still used swords and axes with a 31/5/15 spec and after devastate was added because of the AP normalization.

  12. #532
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vluffyvlaush View Post
    Yes there is. Heroic Strike was on next melee it. In cases you didnt need the rage from auto attacks you would spam HS (on every hard hitting boss). Faster weapons = more HS = more threat. You still used swords and axes with a 31/5/15 spec and after devastate was added because of the AP normalization.
    HS spam between dagger or proper one-hander wasn't that profiting since it wasn't normalized (aka,
    BWD + (equipped dagger speed * AP /3,5) + HS damage + HS threat
    So, in case of Shadowsong's Sorrow:
    A: 68-127 + (1,7 * (2000+9)/3,5) + 138 + 200 = 1381,8 - 1440,8 threat per HS; i've grabbed 2k AP from the ceiling, +9 from dagger str, 138 is HS damage, 200 imagine that it's HS threat

    in case of Ravencrest's Legacy:
    B: 84-157 + (2,1 * (2000+13)/3,5)+ 138 + 200 = 1629,8 - 1702,8 threat per HS

    in case of Chromatically Tempered Sword:
    C: 106-198 + (2,6 * (2000+14)/3,5)+138+200 = 1940,1 - 2032,1)

    In case of dumping 100 rage without gaining any rage back
    A: 1381,8 - 1440,8 * 6 threat over 1,7*6 seconds = 8290,8 - 8644,8 over 10,2 seconds (813 - 848 TPS)

    B: = 9778,8 - 10216,8 over 12,6 seconds (776 - 811 TPS)

    C: = 11640,6 - 12192,6 over 15,6 seconds (746 - 782 TPS)

    Yeah, you are right there that if you are dumping rage at incredible speed you are going to make more TPS, but i'm too lazy to factor in loss of threat from white attacks + sunder spam

    White attack threat would be:
    in case of Shadowsong's Sorrow:
    A: 68-127 + (1,7 * (2000+9)/3,5) = 1043,8 - 1102,8 (614 - 649 TPS)

    B: 84-157 + (2,1 * (2000+13)/3,5) = 1291,8 - 1364,8 (615,1 - 650 TPS)

    in case of Chromatically Tempered Sword:
    C: 106-198 + (2,6 * (2000+14)/3,5) = 1602,1 - 1694,1 (616,2 - 652 TPS)

    Virtually same TPS
    Yeah, i can see how dagger can outpace one-handers threat-wise in case of unlimited rage, no extra swing from sword mastery, etc. But to be fair, having unlimited rage isn't always the case
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    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  13. #533
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Virtually same TPS
    Yeah, i can see how dagger can outpace one-handers threat-wise in case of unlimited rage, no extra swing from sword mastery, etc. But to be fair, having unlimited rage isn't always the case
    Please read again:
    You still used swords and axes with a 31/5/15 spec and after devastate was added because of the AP normalization.

    It was not Dagger vs swords, it was general fast tank weapons.
    So the Dagger gets 975 Damage from AP, while the sword you choose gets 1496 Damage from HS. But if you take a fast sword (TF with 1,9 or Quel wit 2.0) instead of CTS (with 2,6) you still get 1496 damage from AP but can can spam HS faster. You also get the AP Bonusdamage for Devaste. And rage didnt matter on certain bosses. You still had a full bar after spamming Sunders and HS.

  14. #534
    Ah right, heroic strike spam.

    Also, one mechanic they never brought back that I thought was always possible to do again was class calls.

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by Gramb View Post
    no no pscht i cant even hold back to smile, just wait and i bet after the classic servers go online you will see threads like, "Nerf Mount with level 40" or "My "insert class here" cant hit a mob and misses all the time. At release i need alot of Popcorn to enjoy the show of whine threads.

    It will be hugely popular at launch, and even a few months in you will see a ton of people randomly leveling up a character or two... and realistically, if Blizz only makes a few classic servers, that might be fine to justify it. What I don´t think you will see is hardly anyone making it their main server. I think you will have one or two ´world first´ type guilds, and then you will see a ton of people with a level 17 alt that they play an hour a month.

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    So, in case of Shadowsong's Sorrow:
    A: 68-127 + (1,7 * (2000+9)/3,5) + 138 + 200 = 1381,8 - 1440,8 threat per HS; i've grabbed 2k AP from the ceiling, +9 from dagger str, 138 is HS damage, 200 imagine that it's HS threat
    2000 AP on a prot warrior in Vanilla ? Or did I read that wrong ?
    (and how can you get an odd number of AP from Str ?)

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    There's a couple of things that could take the sting out of that a bit, both lifted from TBC. Firstly a non-automated match-making tool that lets you simply advertise who you are and what you're doing and more importantly adds you to a global LFG channel so anyone who fancies a dungeon run can use the channel instead of being tethered to a city and spamming up /2.

    The other thing would be making the meeting stones into summoning stones. On the one hand it isn't Vanilla, which seems to be enough reason for people to reject an idea no matter its merits. On the other hand it's only offering the functionality we get anyway, a summoning stone would only have the same effect as a friendly warlock hanging around the dungeon 24/7. This means that warlocks feel a bit less special, but to be honest having the privilege of always having to go to a dungeon to waste our shards on lazy people was never that amazing.
    Not to pick on you, but you exactly made my point. Every player is going to have ´if only these two things were added...´ I personally think meeting stones/LFG will be one of the biggest reasons people give up on a classic server. Mounts and tedius travel will be another. But that is my opinion, there are hundreds if not thousands of QOL decisions and additions that Blizzard made that each player my say is the deal-breaker for them. You cannot put the genie back in the lamp, once players have played with a major QOL improvement for 8 years, you cannot just take it away for the sake of some random timestamp of when it was added. I also think people are going to go insane if Blizzard reverts the AH to it´s vanilla state.

  18. #538
    Keyboard Turner Newlyn's Avatar
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    Everyone should just stop with the whole nostalgia and future telling posts. It's simple as this; those who want to play will, and those who don't won't. I want to play because I simply find it more enjoyable than retail even if it's a million years fucking old. I want to play wow in my spare time because I love the game, if I'm going to pay for a sub and I have the choice, it's vanilla. Open a blizz MoP server and bang, I'm fucking there.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Didn't hunters run OOM though? Their pool didn't go up from Agility
    There were a ton of specs that in 5-man or raids a large chunk of their dps came from white damage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by takeshiIsu View Post
    An awful lot of people seem to disagree with you, it was a common complaint back then, as you'd know if you played....which clearly you did not.
    Yes, a lot of people didn´t want to switch continents and didn´t follow breadcrumb quests to zones like STV. There were a ton of people in vanilla that thought Tauren, Orcs and Trolls were meant to quest only on Kal and that ´the other continent´ was for Undead and Alliance. If I remember correctly, the biggest ´gap´ for horde was in the 28-40 range because they were meant to go to STV but many players ignored the breadcrumb quests and instead tried to just use 100k and Desolace.

    I cannot speak about Alliance because I only played horde in Vanilla, but for horde, there were two complete pathways to level 60 and you could level two characters to 60 without ever doing the same zone twice. You could do the Kal pathway ( which included STV) and you could do the undead pathway which was NE EK.

    When citing the leveling guides, it is also important to remember that those guides were written to either be ´fastest way´ or ´easiest way´.... and so for those types of guides, maybe it was faster to grind trolls for a level rather than questing in STV. STV was a pretty bad zone as far as questing effeciency. Lots of traveling and ´collectión´ quests..

  20. #540
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    2000 AP on a prot warrior in Vanilla ? Or did I read that wrong ?
    (and how can you get an odd number of AP from Str ?)
    i just took a random number from the ceiling, i do remember epic pvp geared warriors having ~3k AP, so... there is that. it doesn't really matter because i just wanted to see difference between damage and threat between different kinds of weapon
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

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