Raider.IO Development Updates - Raids and Mythic Plus

[ID811717]

- We are planning to provide a short grace period within the addon where we continue to show 7.3 scores while players accumulate their new score for 7.3.2, so as to smooth out the season transition. Currently, we're thinking to do this for a week, but would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the topic.

I suggested this right above your post, but let me just highlight it as a solution to the problem you mentioned above. Instead of resetting everyone's scores, you can just freeze the current season, and start the new season by copying this season's track record.

This means that all runs done in "Season 7.3.0" will also appear as done in "Season 7.3.2". All runs done after release of Antorus will appear only in "Season 7.3.2". Players that worked to push the hardest possible keys prior to the release of Antorus will not get punished by gear reset; they will be on top of leaderboards for "Season 7.3.0". Whereas casual players and hardcore raiders (both having limited time to play M+ in next weeks) will not get punished by resetting their score back to 0 because their runs from "Season 7.3.0" will automaticallly appear in "Season 7.3.2".

[Aspir]

I suggested this right above your post, but let me just highlight it as a solution to the problem you mentioned above. Instead of resetting everyone's scores, you can just freeze the current season, and start the new season by copying this season's track record.

We discusses this very thing, but there are complications due to how we treat the data for the seasons. We don't want to duplicate the data for consistency reasons, and this is exactly how we would need to implement something like you mention due to how we've structured our database.

General response to the above posters wondering about season change:

We think the season change is essential right now, because everyone's item level is going to take a sharp increase over the next couple of weeks, which will make the significance of a +24 completed before Antorus notably higher than a +24 completed after Antorus. We want to respect the previous accomplishments by players.

The site and addon already show a user's Current and Previous season scores. So even if we had no "grace period" as Ulsoga mentioned, there would be a clear indicator of what a given character's previous score was. But, we know that this isn't as descriptive as seeing the current season data when you're talking about the addon, since the addon will not show a previous season's top M+ level.

Having a 1 week grace period is really just the simplest approach to help mitigate some of the season change blues. We agree that 1 week is likely a little too short, but I don't think it could be any longer than 2 weeks. This "grace period" really only applies to the addon as well.

Here's where we want to take things: We think it would be cool to have a real "end of season" experience... something along the lines of what Hearthstone does, where players are awarded some little perks for attaining a certain rank, and that players actually carry over some amount of their previous season rank as they start a new season. We hope to explore some of these things in upcoming seasons, but we didn't have the development bandwidth to develop it this time around.

[Bhorin]

No one gives two shits about who got what score in a previous season. No one looks at that ever. This is just a straight up hassle to scramble to get new scores because you arbitrarily decided to reset it for no actual good reason. I could understand the previous resets due to scaling, but this one is just arbitrary and completely counterproductive.

[Deleted]

Well, wowprogress didnt reset, so i guess some of us will use that now until we farm our score back... but with antorus open will be some time.

[Deleted]

No one gives two shits about who got what score in a previous season. No one looks at that ever. This is just a straight up hassle to scramble to get new scores because you arbitrarily decided to reset it for no actual good reason. I could understand the previous resets due to scaling, but this one is just arbitrary and completely counterproductive.

You can decide for yourself if you want to use the tools given to you or not. You are however not the voice of everyone. Not even close.

Also if you consider hitting up the same score again with next tier gear a "hassle", then my best guess is you are probably not the beneficiary of this tool. On the contrary. AmIRight?

All of you whiners: stop being negative about tools other people give to you completely for free even though it costs them their time and effort which you guys did NOT put into it. The score reset doesn't invalidate anyone's work or effort but gives players an even more accurate tool.

[Bhorin]

You can decide for yourself if you want to use the tools given to you or not. You are however not the voice of everyone. Not even close.

Also if you consider hitting up the same score again with next tier gear a "hassle", then my best guess is you are probably not the beneficiary of this tool. On the contrary. AmIRight?

All of you whiners: stop being negative about tools other people give to you completely for free even though it costs them their time and effort which you guys did NOT put into it. The score reset doesn't invalidate anyone's work or effort but gives players an even more accurate tool.

"You are however not the voice of everyone. Not even close." Neither are you, so why bring it up. You're stating an opinion. I am stating an opinion. No need to be an ass about it.

Nah, I generally do one max level mythic a week, so my score is never very interesting.. though in 7.3 I did go ahead and attempt to level up a mythic score, which is now gone. It is a hassle to do every single dungeon when you've already done every single dungeon on this exact same difficulty (if not less difficult due to gearing), meaning the ones I did before are even more substantial than they are now (their words not mine), but those are wiped.

How is the tool "more accurate"? lol. Dungeons are getting easier as time goes by, not harder. So anyone capable of doing a +15 in "7.3" season should easily do it in this season--if anything they are less accurate because a lot of people who are capable will be at 0 instead of their 1500-3500 score they had. They've actually given up accuracy to make a prestige leader board that no one cares about.

[Deleted]

"No one gives two shits" / "no need to be an ass about it" ... right
Can't help you if you don't understand how looking at multiple points over time is more accurate than at a single point in time especially when conditions changed over said time.

[Bhorin]

The conditions haven't changed between the multiple points so even claiming there are multiple points is both arbitrary and not productive.

By your logic reseting each week is more accurate even though it obviously wouldn't be.

[ItsTiddles]

You're score isn't gone. They will shift it to "last season score" like they were doing before the grace week. People will still easily see that you do m+. If you don't like it, it's not mandatory. Personally, I don't find anything wrong with new scores coming along with new power spikes.

[silverstarzs]

just as a note about raider.io

I ran a lair +14 today. It was the only one I had not yet done this 'new' season. And it did not show up on my .io score after several hours and updating. I asked why and the explanation was that they can only capture the top 100 runs on the server weekly leader board, and on Illidan server the bottom score of the top 100 was a +17. So, for anyone doing less than a +17 they get no 'credit' at all. And a zero score on a dungeon craters your total score

I had just server transferred from a less active server where all my runs were always captured so had not run into this issue before.

It creates a bit of a catch 22 on servers like this - can't get score up unless in good groups but can't get into good groups without score up.

[Lahis]

just as a note about raider.io

I ran a lair +14 today. It was the only one I had not yet done this 'new' season. And it did not show up on my .io score after several hours and updating. I asked why and the explanation was that they can only capture the top 100 runs on the server weekly leader board, and on Illidan server the bottom score of the top 100 was a +17. So, for anyone doing less than a +17 they get no 'credit' at all. And a zero score on a dungeon craters your total score

I had just server transferred from a less active server where all my runs were always captured so had not run into this issue before.

It creates a bit of a catch 22 on servers like this - can't get score up unless in good groups but can't get into good groups without score up.

Nah, prople who don't get good scores are just bads and casuals who want to get carried. Atleast according to people who look at these scores.

[ItsTiddles]

just as a note about raider.io

I ran a lair +14 today. It was the only one I had not yet done this 'new' season. And it did not show up on my .io score after several hours and updating. I asked why and the explanation was that they can only capture the top 100 runs on the server weekly leader board, and on Illidan server the bottom score of the top 100 was a +17. So, for anyone doing less than a +17 they get no 'credit' at all. And a zero score on a dungeon craters your total score

I had just server transferred from a less active server where all my runs were always captured so had not run into this issue before.

It creates a bit of a catch 22 on servers like this - can't get score up unless in good groups but can't get into good groups without score up.

Just a note, it's top 100 runs at any given time for each dungeon for everyone's server involved. You do a +3 on reset day and it shows up. If anyone in your group is on a lower-pop server then it's more likely to show up. There's nothing about this that has to do with raider.io, it has to do with Blizzard's API. They're doing what they can with the information they're able to get. It's similar to finding good raid pugs. It's usually more effective towards the beginning of the week than just before reset.

[Grindfactor]

This whole raider.io score has become such a plague... ive seen people with heroic argus get declined for a +7 yet they are more than capable of doing a +15... this is just as bad as item level when it was released..

[Cracked]

Complete reset on season transition is the worst idea anyone could come up with. Why isn't the score weighted by how long ago you got the dungeon? Or decayed over time? With that in mind you wouldn't even need seasons thanks to how m+ are rebalanced. Also, why isn't there an account-wide score shown? Good intentions, but terrible execution.

[Deleted]

What exactly is stopping all you whiners from developing a better tool and making it available to everyone instead of MPH, raider, wowprog, etc.? Guess it would be productive and that doesn't fit your attitude ...

[Emancptr]

What exactly is stopping all you whiners from developing a better tool and making it available to everyone instead of MPH, raider, wowprog, etc.? Guess it would be productive and that doesn't fit your attitude ...

Mostly because everyone's problem with the tools (outside of a few minor complaints) is based upon the player base and how they apply it (too demanding requirements for x content). It's not a problem with the tools, but what PuG Joe X does with the tools (which literally no one can fix).

[Deleted]

Mostly because everyone's problem with the tools (outside of a few minor complaints) is based upon the player base and how they apply it (too demanding requirements for x content). It's not a problem with the tools, but what PuG Joe X does with the tools (which literally no one can fix).

The hate is directed at the tools though which is quite illogical to me.

[Caprix]

What exactly is stopping all you whiners from developing a better tool and making it available to everyone instead of MPH, raider, wowprog, etc.? Guess it would be productive and that doesn't fit your attitude ...

I'd better guess only a very small fraction of the crowd perfectly capable of judging the tool or its uses has the capability to developp such a tool? That's not a problem, so why your question? Are you mad at negative feedback?
IF (i accentuate the IF) a tool is widely used in a way it was not designed for, it's good to know. And it's not like anyone in the last messages requested the tools to be banned or what.

[Cracked]

The hate is directed at the tools though which is quite illogical to me.

My hate was directed at the authors for making several design decisions that just boil these tools down to "pile of shit everyone uses for some reason". I have no problem with the existence of a shitty tool, but if everyone is going to use it (and they seem to), it better be good. Some points have been raised since the literal start of its lifespan, why isn't a single 19 in time valued higher than a bunch of 10s? Why does score reset on season instead of being multiplied by a factor or decayed? The authors have been lazy to update the tools, hance the hate.

Here, so you don't say I'm not being constructive:

score calculation formula that I think would work well =
dungeons sorted by level done

sum_{i = 1}^{13} (((level + (1 - timer%))^3 ) * (1/i))

The highest levels are valued highest by the discount factor of 1/i, ie get full score from highest dungeon, half from 2nd highest.. up to ~7% from the lowest. The level you do is brought to its third power, ensuring hard steps between levels, eg a 16 is 4 times better than a 10. Throw in a division by 10 at the end so that numbers stay comprehendable to masses.

[Emancptr]

wowprogress is already tracking season 7.3.2, why are you starting to track it 1 week later?

Have you actually used Raider.io or are you just bashing them without actual knowledge?

Raider.io is already tracking season 7.3.2 (if you'd actually gone to the site you could easily verify this). The quoted statement is stating that their will be a 1 week grace period where Raider.io's mythic+ addon will continue to show 7.3 scores (to ease the transition to the new 7.3.2 scoring).