So Alliance lost the Nightborne beacuse Tyrande was a dick?

[Teri]

Alliance didn't lose anything.

The Nightborne have many things in common with the Blood Elves.

- Invaded by a greater power (Legion/Scourge)
- Magical Well of power (Nightwell/Sunwell)
- Magic addiction/withdrawal (Withered/Wretched)

[Justpassing]

Well that's the thing, Night Elves are either denying or ignorant of an ongoing addiction. Where as the Bloodelves are aware of and challenge their addictions. The Nightborne are well aware of their addictions and now a large portion of their population have just got done living enslaved to their addiction with no relief in sight. Blood Elves are extremely sympathetic to this situation, where as Night Elves have a history of casting out and excommunicating magic addicts, which considering they are likely still addicted is highly hypocritical.

Night elves as a faction have always been dicks, that's a given. But now they ain't in the charge of their whole coalition with other races, that's the issue I'm bringing up here. I know politics aren't really a thing in WoW but come on! Nightborne must be some of the most powerful spellcasters remaining on Azeroth and Tyrande blew it.

[Nefarious Tea]

"Dick". Telling the truth you mean.

But yes, thats what you get for telling the truth. No Nightborne for you!

And it was blizzard. Not Tyrande. They did an asspull of Void Elves, so they had to do another asspull so Horde got Nightborne.

No, Tyrande was just a straight up cunt. For several WQ in Suramar where she's the "npc," when you finish, she'll be like "good, now the Nightborne can die for themselves instead of Night Elves wasting their lives on them." And after you finish the arcan'dor, Tyrande takes every opportunity to be a bitch to Thalyssra for no good reason.

Whom, I might like to point out, is essentially the de facto leader of her people now.

[Doffen]

NE 10 000 years ago weren't addicted to magic. They were just over-reliant on it and used it in excess without really understanding it fully.

Nice wording there. Over-reliant. Addicted you mean. Lots of them were. Even though Tyrande wasn't. It was a reason why they turned away from the arcane addiction.

[Goobaman]

No, Tyrande was just a straight up cunt. For several WQ in Suramar where she's the "npc," when you finish, she'll be like "good, now the Nightborne can die for themselves instead of Night Elves wasting their lives on them." And after you finish the arcan'dor, Tyrande takes every opportunity to be a bitch to Thalyssra for no good reason.

Whom, I might like to point out, is essentially the de facto leader of her people now.

Yeah, this. Not until Legion did i realize how -haughty- and unpleasant the Nelves actually are. They're like the Blood Elves who weren't humbled by their challenges. They routinely look down on other races, it seems.

[Hellspawn]

The last Highborne/Mages that wanted to join the nightelfs were hunted by some crazy woman, also most night elfs were quite suspicious about them.

[Doffen]

No, Tyrande was just a straight up cunt. For several WQ in Suramar where she's the "npc," when you finish, she'll be like "good, now the Nightborne can die for themselves instead of Night Elves wasting their lives on them." And after you finish the arcan'dor, Tyrande takes every opportunity to be a bitch to Thalyssra for no good reason.

Whom, I might like to point out, is essentially the de facto leader of her people now.

Liadrin also says that you the player and the other Elves has to do the work before the Nightborne can help themself, because they were useless in battle. When they were ready, she implies that they needed to fight for themself. Is she also bad then? Thats what Tyrande also says during that one WQ.

And no good reason? They were cowards, they decided to stay in the bubble and not help the other Night Elves. You know, their people.

So why were Pandas added to both factions again? Garrosh was alot worse than Tyrande. At least she didn't kill any Nightborne. Suramar is also her hometown(and the Stormrage Brothers) Thats also part of the history. But that we can just ignore then right.

[AcidicSyn]

It's a big surprise they aren't neutral, because both faction were there, helping them, equally. Pandas still went both even though the Horde had Garrosh. Unconsistent storytelling, thats what it is. Alliance-players have a good reason to be a bit upset.

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Probably yes. So they all share same god damn history:P Lets have a fire-camp in Suramar all elves! Oh wait..

IIRC Blizz stated that no faction committed more resources to the Nightborne than the Blood Elves did.

[Darth Vowrawn]

It makes perfect sense that the Nightborne would tell Tyrande and her stuck-up Alliance to get bent after they treated the people of Suramar like meat shields.

And, yes, that was their first encounter with the Alliance. Players don't count because players weren't representing the Horde or the Alliance but neutral Order Halls and the (currently) neutral city of Dalaran. The Nightborne first truly met the "Alliance" through Tyrande, and she treated them like barely tolerated scum because they used magic and weren't a bunch of self-righteous hippies. The Blood Elves, and consequently the Horde, treated the Nightborne with genuine respect and sympathy, doing whatever they could to help the people and rebels against a tyrant, rather than just saving the "city" ("Like, because it's my hometown, gosh!") and making no promises not to attack the people after the Legion was pushed out like Tyrande did.

[Doffen]

IIRC Blizz stated that no faction committed more resources to the Nightborne than the Blood Elves did.

Yet another kick in the groin for the Alliance-players then. Heck why were the alliance-players even needed? The Blood Elves did it all themself it sounds like. Why didn't the alliance just skip Suramar all together and start on Argus at once. Why should they waste their time with the Suramar questline just so blizz could hand them over to the Horde? Now, thats something to think about. (I know I am getting silly here in the last sentence, but come on)

[Sky High]

Night Elves are likely still addicted. Everywhere they go they have to bring moonwells with them.

ahh, thank you, just want I needed, another reason to bag on the tree fuckers. yeah guys lets give those elves shit for being mana addicts while we got these miniature reasons why Sargaras even came to Azeroth in the first place laying around EVERYWHERE.

[Hctaz]

To be fair Garithos pulled a Garrosh, and Tyrande has always been a dick but goddammit someone teach these stuck-up nelves some diplomacy...

Also "Garithos" and "Garrosh", both starting with "Gar" and they even rhime somewhat...

Well, the Night Elves also ruined the Blood Elves rejoining the Alliance in TBC as well. They were doing some diplomacy with this Dwarf and they ended up finding out he was working with Night Elven spies who were sabotaging the Blood Elves... so they killed him and the spies and spit on the Alliance. Would have ended up factionless if Sylvanas hadn't sent her forces to the Ghostlands seeking to end the scourge.

Night Elves are magicist as fuck. I mean, they banished Illidan multiple times for doing the right thing. He saved them countless times, but that wasn't good enough since he did it through "evil" ways. Now, they just hate on elves who wield magic for some reason.

[therealbowser]

Night elves and nightborne were never going to get along with each other. This was never going to work out. Tyrande changed nothing.

[Darth Vowrawn]

Yeah, this. Not until Legion did i realize how -haughty- and unpleasant the Nelves actually are. They're like the Blood Elves who weren't humbled by their challenges. They routinely look down on other races, it seems.

It's kind of ironic that the "nobles" of Elven society are more kind and tolerant than their "lowborn" brethren, even though said "lowborn" hated the Highborne for being classist and elitist in the first place. Now, it's the Highborne who are more tolerant and accepting, while the sententious sticks in the mud of the Night Elves and High Elves are a bunch of racists and snobs. I guess that's why the Nightborne and Blood Elves are "nobles".

[Shibito]

It's a big surprise they aren't neutral, because both faction were there, helping them, equally. Pandas still went both even though the Horde had Garrosh. Unconsistent storytelling, thats what it is. Alliance-players have a good reason to be a bit upset.

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Probably yes. So they all share same god damn history:P Lets have a fire-camp in Suramar all elves! Oh wait..

same with army of the light and alleria but what ever

[Doffen]

It makes perfect sense that the Nightborne would tell Tyrande and her stuck-up Alliance to get bent after they treated the people of Suramar like meat shields.

And, yes, that was their first encounter with the Alliance. Players don't count because players weren't representing the Horde or the Alliance but neutral Order Halls and the (currently) neutral city of Dalaran. The Nightborne first truly met the "Alliance" through Tyrande, and she treated them like barely tolerated scum because they used magic and weren't a bunch of self-righteous hippies. The Blood Elves, and consequently the Horde, treated the Nightborne with genuine respect and sympathy, doing whatever they could to help the people and rebels against a tyrant, rather than just saving the "city" ("Like, because it's my hometown, gosh!") and making no promises not to attack the people after the Legion was pushed out like Tyrande did.

The player is the one that get Khadgar to send the factions to Suramar. And Tyrande use them at meat-shield? Thats just biased. No, you were the god damn meatshield :P

"oh the nice blood elves are here, we get their sympathy oh the joy" Another: "oh the horrible familiar Night Elves are here, they are just saving us from total annihilation, scumbags!"

[Aeula]

No shit, sherlock.

Evidently the Alliance need reminding.

[Razion]

If the Alliance got Nightborne they would be getting Night Elves again. Why would you want that?
You already have Night Elf mages now. Maybe ask for Night Elf Warlocks instead.

[Doffen]

same with army of the light and alleria but what ever

Same as Highmountain Taurens. You see, Draeneis are still Draeneis. Taurens are still Tauren. But Nightborne is elves, and there is 2 very familiar Elven races. But whatever.

Thats a very weak point since you also got Highmountain Taurens. So Horde got two that both factions actually helped, they were severely outnumbered. The joint forces with AotL, alliance gets one.

[AcidicSyn]

Yet another kick in the groin for the Alliance-players then. Heck why were the alliance-players even needed? The Blood Elves did it all themself it sounds like. Why didn't the alliance just skip Suramar all together and start on Argus at once. Why should they waste their time with the Suramar questline just so blizz could hand them over to the Horde? Now, thats something to think about. (I know I am getting silly here in the last sentence, but come on)

I hear you, but it does just make more sense for the Nightborne to join the Horde considering current events and treatment.

With that said though, despite the Horde rebelling against Garrosh in the end, I think it is pretty weird that any Pandas would have chosen to remain with the Horde after those events. If for no other reason than stability. This was their first encounter with the Horde, they had no prior interaction and no reason to believe that this wasn't normal for them. Not to mention that Horde generals aren't exactly the most pleasant folks to the Pandas in their holdings in Pandaria. (Seriously, if you haven't already, play through just Jade Forest on a horde toon; holy crap are we pricks to these poor bastards)

Just as it makes perfect sense for the Nightborne to join the Horde now; it would also have made perfect sense for Aysa to carry the wounded Ji Firepaw back to stormwind and for the Houjin to flee Orgrimmar in the chaos, joining their kin and pledging to the Alliance.