Own vs Renting

[Elim Garak]

At least where I live

Personal anecdotes do not matter.

Again: Huh?

You were redefining subscription as somethign that you pay to consume.

Yeas, and it's your money up to the point where you decide to give it away. For good.

Not for good, for the place to live in. It's a purchase.

I really can't wrap my head around this. Do people really think landlords rent out for the fun of it and willfully LOSE money by subsidizing services and repairs!? Please outline a business model where this works out for all parties.

No, only you think that people think that. You just cannot wrap your head that it's not your money anymore. And I CAN wrap my head around you being unable to.

it's quite obvious that landowner does it for money. But it doesn't mean that it's profitable to them. All one needs to do to wrap their head around this is to think.
A. They might be way beyond mortgage point and they earn pure profit by renting out - the rent amount is based on market value in the area (you understand this right?)
B. They are paying mortgage, but the market value in the area is LOWER than their payments, they still rent it out. Can you guess why?

The point is though, once you paid - it's not your money. It applies to every such transactions not just rent. You don't bitch about your local grocery store's usage of YOUR money, do you now?

[Hooked]

You can try to sell it. And even if you sell it - it won't be in an instant. It is also a hassle and taxable.

Why just a mortgage? How about property tax? Maintenance? All that is on you. While if you rented - all that would be on the landowner. Eventually you will waste more money on your property than if you rented, also you can easily rent something cheaper if money is an issue, you cannot as easily sell the house and buy a new cheaper one - which will suck even more money from you because of its condition at purchase (cheaper right?), most probably you will just sell at a loss and start renting until you can repeat your mistake again (to keep your wife with you).

Every Russian I have ever met doesn't own a home. I think its because they still have a communist programming. Communists cant own land and live pretty much rent free in an apartment over there. All ex communist and still communist countries have massive amounts of apartment high rise buildings, basically warehousing the masses into contained units.

[Ryme]

Own, renting is such an incredible waste of money but housing prices in certain areas of the UK necessitate it. I do not envy anyone caught in middle of this, our two bedroom flat cost just shy of £300k and my commute to the city is still an hour.

[Elim Garak]

Every Russian I have ever met doesn't own a home. I think its because they still have a communist programming. Communists cant own land and live pretty much rent free in an apartment over there. All ex communist and still communist countries have massive amounts of apartment high rise buildings, basically warehousing the masses into contained units.

Most Russians have a home (most had a home in USSR times as well - because that's what "communism" is all about, to provide), either a condo in a city or a house in suburbs. I don't know who you are meeting with but it'll not surprise me if they live in Moscow or St.Petersburg where "home" is expensive to own and most people rent, like in NY or LA. if you are living in US - well they don't have the same resources and opportunities as an American born would have.

[Skyforge1]

Well i'm not sure what its like outside of Australia, but with the price of land/houses skyrocketing by the year here you would be silly not to get yourself into the market.
Even the house you live in can be an investment, would much rather work towards my own future than pay for somebody elses.

[Hooked]

Most Russians have a home (most had a home in USSR times as well - because that's what "communism" is all about, to provide), either a condo in a city or a house in suburbs. I don't know who you are meeting with but it'll not surprise me if they live in Moscow or St.Petersburg where "home" is expensive to own and most people rent, like in NY or LA. if you are living in US - well they don't have the same resources and opportunities as an American born would have.

Look at the communist block housing, that's pretty much all it is in cities. Rural areas and villages are different I'm guessing.

[Flarelaine]

The only valid reason to own a house/apartment - is to rent it out. I.e. bees knees. Unless, and that's a big unless, you are filthy rich and want to have a personal mansion or two or three in different parts of the world. Committing your resources and precious time to outfit a single house for personal use - is such a waste, both of resources and time.

I think it really depends on the local real estate market. I own my flat and I'm glad because prices have skyrocketed since I've bought it and I wouldn't be able to afford renting a comparable one.

Oh, and there's no property tax.

[Elim Garak]

Look at the communist block housing, that's pretty much all it is in cities. Rural areas and villages are different I'm guessing.

Why do I have to look at it? Is it housing? yes. What else? It looks different compared to housing projects in US? Is it really an issue?
This is NY

This is Moscow

[kamuimac]

Do you Own or Rent and of the two which of the two do you prefer.

I prefer to Own, and I prefer to be where others own also. I started early so my house is paid for, but honestly, I am glad I did, saying up and putting my first 10% into the biggest purchase I have ever made in my life, growing up poor as fuck.

Owning something seem to give me more of an appreciation for not just where I lived but everything else around where I live.

only - and i mean really - only owning a property .

even if mortgage would be 2x higher then rent its worth it in long run as by renting you are only letting someone else make cash.

if you cant afford to take a loan just live with parents - its not a shame really if you are poor.

but people are dumb and have stupid false sense of "pride" and would rather throw away $$ instead invest them - because owning a property is always investment into yourself and your family

[Elim Garak]

Since when are the factual circumstances of a country "personal anecdotes"?

Since it's jsut "there I live" not entire country mate.

What else is it?

Paying for something in recurring fashion, no consumption required.

Yes, and instead of buying the service of a place to live at AND the actual tangible value (the house), you only buy the first part. The part that has no value to anyone else at a later point, unable to be turned back into money for you. And since when you buy a house, you usually ONLY pay for the thing itself. The "service" part is implicit.

Only if you buy full-price. If you go mortgage you will pay more money than the house is worth. While a renter will pay less for the same time and since a renter is very mobile they will land better jobs and change locations - that will allow them to not even be concerned with rent amount. And you still will have 10 years of mortgage to go, unless you sell it and start anew somewhere else, because jobs, right?

I say I can't imagine how people think something, and you understand I am the one thinking that? Do you read/comprehend what you write?

I said people don't think what you think they think. hence why you cannot imagine it. You invented the whole thing. Is that simpler to understand?

What difference does it make if it's my $1000 or the $1000 I gave to someone else that gets spent? The result is all the same: I have $1000 less in my pocket. And that is all that matters to me, ultimately.

Sure, but your argument was about how it gets spent. So...
It doesn't matter if you paid it for rent or mortgage and maintenance, you've lost 1k.

A. if you're beyond mortgage yourself, you live for whatever recurring costs remain, which will ALWAYS be less than the rent for a similarly sized and situated house. Otherwise the landlord would pay you to live there. Why would anyone do that?

I don't understand what yo uare arguing here. It was a case of landowner earning profit with no mortgage. Of course there are maintanence bills to pay - that's beside the point.

B. To lessen the losses in the hopes of eventually raising prices would be my best guess. But your rent there will STILL cover at minimum all the recurring costs you would also have as an owner AND chances are that you're at least paying a small premium for rent.

it's irrelvenat what my rent will cover. The landowner has no profit. Only losses. But he rents out to reduce the losses.

You try to make a case for rent as generally the better option.

The only case I didn't cover is the case in which landower still pays mortgage and has a profit from rent. So there. 3 cases total. does it make any difference?

I would "bitch" about prices at the grocery store if we want to make a valid comparison.

That's not a valid comparison. You were not bitching about rent, but how it's being spent by the landowner. So the valid comparison is the one I used.

[Independent voter]

In the US you can right off your mortgage payments on your taxes. You have to make enough money to be taxed enough so that it makes it worth it.

That's why home ownership is really high in the US. There some talk the new tax bill will remove this tax deduction for some and people are going to be pissed.

[Rasulis]

I own a home in the California bay area, the problem is the property taxes are like 10k a year and at the same time they are moving tons of illegals and refugees into my city. Property taxes should decrease if they are destroying my property value in my opinion.

Your property tax is 10k in the Bay Area, so that meant you paid around 800k - 900k for your house? I sincerely doubt that they would be moving illegals and refugees into that a neighborhood of that price range. The cost of housing them would be astronomical.

[Faroth]

In the US you can right off your mortgage payments on your taxes. You have to make enough money to be taxed enough so that it makes it worth it.

That's why home ownership is really high in the US. There some talk the new tax bill will remove this tax deduction for some and people are going to be pissed.

Not the mortgage payment, no.

You can write off the mortgage interest, which for the majority of people does a lot of nothing to their tax return. I want to say my mortgage interest bumped my tax return by about $50 at the most. I just remember it was pretty laughable when I saw the difference after entering it. Now, people with $500,000 homes? They probably see a sizeable difference writing off mortgage interest.

However, you do get to write off property taxes and THAT is a nice big boost.

[loadedaxe]

Only thing that makes money in renting is vacation rentals. What you guys pay in rent for a month i make that in a week. I average about 1100$ a week for a 4 bedroom 3 bath home with a pool on the water close to the beach. The house stays rented out almost all yr round and the renters have money and respect so maint and upkeep is minimal. The other way of making good money on rentals is to be a slum lord who owns apt buildings or duplexes. Just renting houses is low profit and usually not worth the haggle and youd be better of to just sell the house and take the cash.

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What city do you live in i would like to check zillow and the local market there because either your getting the best deal ever on rent or you could own the same house for the same payment or less. Home owners insurance and appliance insurance pays for alot of my stuff when it breaks i just pay a measly 500$ deductible. You can homestead your house and taxes are slashed and you can deduct the mortgage on your taxes at the end of the yr.

yeah, you guys pay way to much for homes. The average new home here is 175-225k for 3 bedroom homes and... Zillow is a joke.

I could buy a house for the same amount of monthly payment, yes. But I dont like being tied down or forced to pay 14-20k for a new roof every 7-10 years, or new AC every 5 years. Down here its hot and ACs run 22 out of 24 hours, heater, nah we dont need those.

So I guess it depends on where you live.

[Rasulis]

You can try to sell it. And even if you sell it - it won't be in an instant. It is also a hassle and taxable.

Why just a mortgage? How about property tax? Maintenance? All that is on you. While if you rented - all that would be on the landowner. Eventually you will waste more money on your property than if you rented, also you can easily rent something cheaper if money is an issue, you cannot as easily sell the house and buy a new cheaper one - which will suck even more money from you because of its condition at purchase (cheaper right?), most probably you will just sell at a loss and start renting until you can repeat your mistake again (to keep your wife with you).

I don’t know about Russia, but in US, for the most part, the cost of owning is less than renting of a comparable property.

I’ll use San Diego, which is still behind SF and NY in term of living/real estate cost, as an example. The cost of renting a 3 bedroom/3bath unit is around $3,500 (low end). We bought our one-acre property about 40 miles from the coast for 160k in 2012, and spent around 300k to build the house (4 bedrooms/3s bath). We actually have 5 bedrooms/4 baths if you include the barn that we remodeled into a granny flat. Full solar, outdoor fire suppressant system, water well and fully landscaped. We still owe around 330k, and our monthly mortgage is $ 1,521 (30-year fixed). Insurance is around $ 1,300 a year (home owner + earthquake insurance + home warranty). Property tax is $ 3,600 a year. It will go down to $2,400 in 2019 because when my wife turned 65 we can get exemption on the County’s fire and sewer charges. We do have municipal water for drinking (we only use the well for irrigation and fire suppressant system) which comes around $500 per year. Electricity is $180 per year. Gas is around $300 + $ 60 for tank lease per year. HoA is $103 per month. Trash is $144 per year. Total comes to $2,139 per month. Which is way less than $3,500. Hell, for $3,500 a month, you can get a 3 bedrooms condo next to Mission Bay.

Surprisingly, rental rates in the US don’t seem to differ very much state to state. My son lives in a small town in Illinois. His 4 bedrooms/3 baths Victorian house is all hardwood floors, and completely upgraded with energy efficient heating and cooling, new insulation, doors and windows, electrical wiring and plumbing. Still, I doubt that he could get 80k for the house. On the other hand, one-bedroom rental in the adjacent town (no rental in his town) is about $900.

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yeah, you guys pay way to much for homes. The average new home here is 175-225k for 3 bedroom homes and... Zillow is a joke.

I could buy a house for the same amount of monthly payment, yes. But I dont like being tied down or forced to pay 14-20k for a new roof every 7-10 years, or new AC every 5 years. Down here its hot and ACs run 22 out of 24 hours, heater, nah we dont need those.

So I guess it depends on where you live.

We only used our AC in October this year for about 2 - 3 weeks. We have not had to turn on the heater yet. If you live in the Bay Area, you get to use your AC probably once every 10 years. Most houses in San Diego and San Francisco don't even bother with A.C.

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Not the mortgage payment, no.

You can write off the mortgage interest, which for the majority of people does a lot of nothing to their tax return. I want to say my mortgage interest bumped my tax return by about $50 at the most. I just remember it was pretty laughable when I saw the difference after entering it. Now, people with $500,000 homes? They probably see a sizeable difference writing off mortgage interest.

However, you do get to write off property taxes and THAT is a nice big boost.

That's because interest rate is so insanely low now. You get a lot more deduction from your mortgage interest rate when it was in the double digit range. Right now ours is 2.7%. The deduction is peanuts.

[Z-Man]

Now, people with $500,000 homes? They probably see a sizeable difference writing off mortgage interest.

However, you do get to write off property taxes and THAT is a nice big boost.

Our average house price is $789K, so the deduction for mortgage interest and taxes puts about a grand a month back into your pocket. On an annual basis, it's cheaper to buy the McMansion than it is to rent anything bigger than a shoebox around here. (Housing market is in full silly mode here. It's pay-to-play on a big scale.)

[Witchblade77]

I prefer to own, for several reasons. i'm a homebody. i don't like to move around, i don't like to travel. I like to stay in one comfortable for me place. i also hate it when I have to ask permission to make any changes to my living space. (which is also why I will never, EVER buy anything that has HOA) and given some of the issues we had with landlord provided repairs. I would rather pay out of pocket, but make sure that its done right. and last but not least, where i live, its actualy cheaper to own than to rent (and I know becasue before we bought, we rented a place in the area to make sure we actualy like living there - and yes when calculating costs I included property taxes, utilities and maintenance)

that said, for some people renting is better. and biggest though not the only reason to rent is mobility. so, to each their own. pun intended :P

[loadedaxe]

I don’t know about Russia, but in US, for the most part, the cost of owning is less than renting of a comparable property.

I’ll use San Diego, which is still behind SF and NY in term of living/real estate cost, as an example. The cost of renting a 3 bedroom/3bath unit is around $3,500 (low end). We bought our one-acre property about 40 miles from the coast for 160k in 2012, and spent around 300k to build the house (4 bedrooms/3s bath). We actually have 5 bedrooms/4 baths if you include the barn that we remodeled into a granny flat. Full solar, outdoor fire suppressant system, water well and fully landscaped. We still owe around 330k, and our monthly mortgage is $ 1,521 (30-year fixed). Insurance is around $ 1,300 a year (home owner + earthquake insurance + home warranty). Property tax is $ 3,600 a year. It will go down to $2,400 in 2019 because when my wife turned 65 we can get exemption on the County’s fire and sewer charges. We do have municipal water for drinking (we only use the well for irrigation and fire suppressant system) which comes around $500 per year. Electricity is $180 per year. Gas is around $300 + $ 60 for tank lease per year. HoA is $103 per month. Trash is $144 per year. Total comes to $2,139 per month. Which is way less than $3,500. Hell, for $3,500 a month, you can get a 3 bedrooms condo next to Mission Bay.

Surprisingly, rental rates in the US don’t seem to differ very much state to state. My son lives in a small town in Illinois. His 4 bedrooms/3 baths Victorian house is all hardwood floors, and completely upgraded with energy efficient heating and cooling, new insulation, doors and windows, electrical wiring and plumbing. Still, I doubt that he could get 80k for the house. On the other hand, one-bedroom rental in the adjacent town (no rental in his town) is about $900.

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We only used our AC in October this year for about 2 - 3 weeks. We have not had to turn on the heater yet. If you live in the Bay Area, you get to use your AC probably once every 10 years. Most houses in San Diego and San Francisco don't even bother with A.C.

Florida FTW!

heres an example of the neighborhood where I live. Using your Zillow, these homes rent for $750-850 mo, mines a little bigger and nicer:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5...?fullpage=true

[Deleted]

Rented for almost 10 years because of fluctuating income and eventually got where I wanted to be and purchased land and build a house.

[Paperplates]

I rent because it allows me to move around, I get bored in a city easily and I am quite flexible for work. Maybe one day I'll buy something but only when I am looking to finally settle down.