Anyone else lose more respect for the Horde?

[Dagoth Ur]

She wouldn't but Sylvanas would. Genocide and destruction of life is her stick.

I assume somehing will happen in the book.

Right now it also doesn't make sense for Sylvanas either to burn down Teldrassil.

[Deleted]

I assume somehing will happen in the book.

Right now it also doesn't make sense for Sylvanas either to burn down Teldrassil.

She conquers the Night elves which is something most Orcs are wet for. It removes a thorn in her side and as arrogant as she is I think she underestimate the response from Anduin. She probably expected him to sit back at home and whisper to himself how nice peace is.

[bufferunderrun]

Can't really lose something you never had in the first place.
And I agree, the Alliance is clearly the better faction, but that's nothing new. They have been so since it was created.

Just look at the next expansion, The Horde burning down Teldrassil is what starts this whole war between the factions and the attack on Undercity. So once again, we have the Horde being the ones that starts a conflict. The Question is, how can anyone still justify playing Horde? And how can anyone claim the Horde is not the "evil" faction when they time and time again prove they are?

because the alternative is playing alliance, if blizzard introduce a third faction even with the same races i would instantly switch all my characters but this can't be done and we are stuck with this or switch to alliance (that on top of being stupid white knight also require to pay ton of money) or quit the game.

I think i will wait till the whole story is revealed but if blizzard has really used again the horde as villains i will quit wow for good this time.

[Deleted]

The alliance definitely are not all Mary Sue, Genn, Jaina, Vareesa, Varian, Tyrande, Muradin, Kurdran - the list goes on really. Anyway, what's wrong with being a Mary Sue? I feel like only angsty teens who hate authority and seem opposed to moral goodness are the ones who always screech about Mary Sue's.

Its the Horde trying to deflect from the fact that Sylvanas is a Dark Sue. At this point we could even call her Sylvanas Dark'néss Dementia Raven Nightrunner. Yeah, Anduin is a Mary Sue. But at least, he is no Sylvanas Dark'néss Dementia Raven Nightrunner. Nobody in the Alliance is a Sylvanas Dark'néss Dementia Raven Nightrunner.

[Minikin]

They're also Tauren and probably share a certain affection for other tauren
Both factions have elves in leadership. One faction has some affinity for trolls... but really it's odd looking back at other interactions with Zandalari trolls.
and?

totally agree about the highmountain stuff. but u have to see this void elf thing is wierd, especially that they go to alliance. if anything they should go to horde. if you look back into how warlocks were with horde and alliance. both horde and alliance had them but they were kind of "the embarassing secret" however still more horde than alliance given their oirgins.

it would made far more sense that alliance got vrykul instead of void elves.

[mickybrighteyes]

totally agree about the highmountain stuff. but u have to see this void elf thing is wierd, especially that they go to alliance. if anything they should go to horde. if you look back into how warlocks were with horde and alliance. both horde and alliance had them but they were kind of "the embarassing secret" however still more horde than alliance given their oirgins.

it would made far more sense that alliance got vrykul instead of void elves.

I think that has to do with Alleria's stance. Void elves threw in with Alleria and likely also gave off a vibe like Kael's Fel Elves. At least that's how I'm imagining it atm, Blood Elves prolly took a look at this and thought "not this shit again"

[bufferunderrun]

The alliance definitely are not all Mary Sue, Genn, Jaina, Vareesa, Varian, Tyrande, Muradin, Kurdran - the list goes on really. Anyway, what's wrong with being a Mary Sue? I feel like only angsty teens who hate authority and seem opposed to moral goodness are the ones who always screech about Mary Sue's.

it's wrong because it force the other side to be the dark sue one, peoples still blind and don't recognize that alliance and horde both have completely moved from both having shadow of gray (the alliance more light and horde more dark) into the two clique faction present in every other story; and don't tell me some small minor matter here and there change thing.

When an important event happen Alliance is always the white knight and Horde the evil beast and that wasn't the case before the insanity called garrosh.

I also want to point out that blizzard communication in the story department is seriously lacking and borderline nonexistent anyone remember a blue posting in the story section to at last discuss those thing?

[Tinary]

A world tree is utterly unnecessary for the well being of Azeroth,especially Teldrassil. They are simply used to empower the night elves or to seal/drain some kind of magic.

OT

I don't have respect for both factions, they are equally retarded.

I meant the other way around, Teldrassil is depending on Azeroth since it is a world tree and the world it depends on is dying.

[Theodarzna]

I never respected the Horde, they've always been the evil faction due to the Orcs presence and role in it.

They've been that since War1 and 2.

[Tinary]

totally agree about the highmountain stuff. but u have to see this void elf thing is wierd, especially that they go to alliance. if anything they should go to horde. if you look back into how warlocks were with horde and alliance. both horde and alliance had them but they were kind of "the embarassing secret" however still more horde than alliance given their oirgins.

it would made far more sense that alliance got vrykul instead of void elves.

Aint void elves led by Alleria? Who hates horde? And if I recal right, the ones who tapped into the void were kicked out of silvermoon and then decided to join Alliance.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

it's wrong because it force the other side to be the dark sue one, peoples still blind and don't recognize that alliance and horde both have completely moved from both having shadow of gray (the alliance more light and horde more dark) into the two clique faction present in every other story; and don't tell me some small minor matter here and there change thing.

When an important event happen Alliance is always the white knight and Horde the evil beast and that wasn't the case before the insanity called garrosh.

I also want to point out that blizzard communication in the story department is seriously lacking and borderline nonexistent anyone remember a blue posting in the story section to at last discuss those thing?

I agree I like the game better when all my toons - Horde and Alliance - have leaders they can look up to. When they don't have to cringe when accepting a quest. My Horde toons looked up to Thrall, and to Vol'jin. Never respected Garrosh (too hot-headed with anger issues to make good war chief) and never trusted Sylvanas.

Varian saw his city sacked and father killed by Orcs calling themselves the Horde, was later captured and forced to fight as a slave gladiator by the Horde, so not surprisingly held a grudge for quite a while. Fortunately Jaina was a calmer head in those days and kept him in check. Eventually Anduin and their adventures in Pandaria helped him find peace and grow into a more mature/balanced leader. By the Siege of Orgrimmar, Varian shows both toughness and restraint.

Anduin... I feel like I know this boy better than any of our leaders on either side. We've watched him grow up! I understand him. I get why he makes the decisions he makes. I don't expect him to be perfect, but I have faith in him that he will always be trying to do the right thing as he sees it. Also that he will always be open to reason should someone show him a better way. He's not his father, but he is his father's son and is growing into someone special.

- - - Updated - - -

Now there was a King!



Varian Wrynn was the former King of Stormwind and former High King of the Grand Alliance.[7] During the First War when Varian was a young boy, his father King Llane was murdered and Stormwind was sacked by the Orcish Horde. His guardian and regent Anduin Lothar gathered the survivors and sailed to Lordaeron, where the Alliance of Lordaeron was formed. The Alliance defeated the Horde in the Second War and Stormwind was reclaimed, though at the cost of Lothar's life. Varian was crowned King of Stormwind and stood by King Terenas of Lordaeron as the Alliance began to fracture, but soon faced many internal problems. He was unable to reach a settlement between the Stonemasons who rebuilt Stormwind and the House of Nobles, which led to a riot in which his wife Queen Tiffin was killed. While on a diplomatic mission to Theramore, Varian was abducted by the Defias Brotherhood, formerly the Stonemasons, and went missing.

He had managed to escape from the Defias but was suffering from memory loss and soon after enslaved by the Horde and became a gladiator in the Crimson Ring, teamed with Broll Bearmantle and Valeera Sanguinar. The trio won the Crimson Ring tournament in Dire Maul, for which Varian was given the orcish moniker "Lo'Gosh" — meaning "Ghost Wolf". After escaping his slavers, Varian discovered he was the missing King of Stormwind and his advisor Lady Katrana Prestor was revealed to be the black dragonflight broodmother Onyxia in disguise, who had manipulated the Defias and Nobles dispute, was behind Varian's kidnapping, and created a duplicate of him using dark magic. With the help of his comrades, he was able to recover his true identity and finally defeat Onyxia.

Under his daring leadership, the humans of Stormwind led the Alliance to victory against the Lich King in Northrend. After the death of Highlord Bolvar Fordragon and Alliance forces at the Wrathgate, Varian declared war on the Horde and sought to bolster their strategic holdings against their perennial enemy.[8] Known for his tenacity and fierce will, King Varian Wrynn was committed to protecting the Alliance's interests and raising his son Anduin to follow in his place.[9] He has been referred to as scion of the wolf Ancient.[10] With the world plunged into chaos by the great Cataclysm, he earned the respect of the night elves, dwarves, and other Alliance races and took up military leadership of the Alliance as High King, vowing to forge a new destiny for Azeroth.[11] The war with the Horde was finally brought to an end following the victory in the Siege of Orgrimmar.

Leading the Alliance armies against the Burning Legion at the Broken Shore, Varian fell in battle at the gates of the Tomb of Sargeras, sacrificing himself to allow the Alliance forces to escape. Before staying behind to fight, Varian entrusted Genn Greymane with a letter to his son Anduin, advising him that one must be willing to fight in order to preserve peace. In the aftermath of the battle, he was succeeded by Anduin as King of Stormwind and High King of the Alliance.

[Theodarzna]

I see alot of people mindlessly screaming "For the Horde".

But I'm starting to get huge respect for the Alliance, Anduin is not just handsome, but how he gets tears while he fights is just shows how fucking pure and good he is.

You can say whatever you want about the Alliance, but they always stayed real, be it Varian, Anduin or even Arthas and Jaina. Always beated the Horde but kept them around. The faction was honourable.. sure sometimes they get cocky, but always stayed real.

Just few things that makes me ashamed about the Horde's lore:

1. I've played Highmountain, those Tauren have huge respect for the Night Elves, so what made them join the Horde?

2. Zandalari, who saw the Elves as ancient arch enemies, are now joinin the faction led by many Elves?

3. Orcs still live in capital city that's named of the murdered of Sylvana's mother and brother.

The Alliance never had to deal with this... they get High Elves, Dwarves, Draeneis.. all of them hate Orcs, Trolls. While the Horde getting bunch of races with identity crisis.

Screaming "For the Horde" feels more like an old PVP meme, instead of something serious and something to be proud of.

The Horde has been a faction that is largely evil because of the Orcs since its inception. The Orcs are pretty much the genesis of its bad elements and the Orcs unresolved role in War1 and War2 cause the Orcs to be one of the most unforgivably evil races in the game.

And the Orcs largely founded and lead the Horde directly most of the time or indirectly through shear numbers.

[bufferunderrun]

The Horde has been a faction that is largely evil because of the Orcs since its inception. The Orcs are pretty much the genesis of its bad elements and the Orcs unresolved role in War1 and War2 cause the Orcs to be one of the most unforgivably evil races in the game.

And the Orcs largely founded and lead the Horde directly most of the time or indirectly through shear numbers.

this is absolutely nonsensical, the orcs, trolls and tauren are all races based on a tribal way of life it's normal that to us who live in a world where a murderer is threatened with white gloves their way look barbaric at the same time the alliance is based on a medieval theme that have no less fault point.

The orcs under thrall retained that point but also had a decent sense of measure and restrain, i reiterate the fact that before blizzard forced the change both faction were more similar and the differences were more subtle than now, even the change of the leader is emblematic; while the horde move away from a charismatic, pragmatic and levelheaded leader like thrall toward a borderline evil one (sylvanas) the alliance move away from a more "human" leader like varian who had it's good and bad side toward the absolute clique of the white knight mary sue Anduin who act only when forced to the extreme.

[Theodarzna]

this is absolutely nonsensical, the orcs, trolls and tauren are all races based on a tribal way of life it's normal that to us who live in a world where a murderer is threatened with white gloves their way look barbaric at the same time the alliance is based on a medieval theme that have no less fault point.

The orcs under thrall retained that point but also had a decent sense of measure and restrain, i reiterate the fact that before blizzard forced the change both faction were more similar and the differences were more subtle than now, even the change of the leader is emblematic; while the horde move away from a charismatic, pragmatic and levelheaded leader like thrall toward a borderline evil one (sylvanas) the alliance move away from a more "human" leader like varian who had it's good and bad side toward the absolute clique of the white knight mary sue Anduin who act only when forced to the extreme.

Orc's are hardly "noble savages" but in reality the Orcs are the must evil race in the game.

After the first and the second war they not only never reconciled with the Humans they wronged, they got angry at humans for sparing their race from arguably the only just genocide that could ever exist, and then have declared perpetual war against a race of people who not only showed them mercy after an attempted the Orcs attempted genocide against them and as agents of the Legion all life on Azeroth but also as of WoD we learn the Orcs wouldn't have done a single thing different even if Demon blood was out of the equation. Hell if the Horde ever won the faction war, every non-Horde race would be utterly annihilated.

Orcs have never sought contrition or forgiveness for their terrible actions in War1 and 2. They have never sacrificed anything to make it up to those they had wronged. Once more WoD proved that the old "Legion made us, that wasn't us, we were corrupted!" excuse is complete BS. All Orcs need for a good genocidal warmongering vicious rampage is a good speech.

The Horde has goodness in it, especially Tauran whom never wronged anyone. And Darkspear trolls for the same reason. Even the Undead can be forgiven since they are literally corrupted and twisted by evil magic. Their sins aren't their own doing to some extent. But Orcs? Orcs chose to be evil, they chose it freely and with a happy heart and outright enjoy it. Hell, Orcs are proud of it and long for the glory days of it.

They're a walking cancer, a pest. A problem that the Alliance took pity on after righteously stopping a Demon worshiping murder race from annihilating all life on the planet. And the thanks they are showed is a perpetual warmongering enemy that should have been justly put down after Warcraft 2.

[bufferunderrun]

Orc's are hardly "noble savages" but in reality the Orcs are the must evil race in the game.

After the first and the second war they not only never reconciled with the Humans they wronged, they got angry at humans for sparing their race from arguably the only just genocide that could ever exist, and then have declared perpetual war against a race of people who not only showed them mercy after an attempted the Orcs attempted genocide against them and as agents of the Legion all life on Azeroth but also as of WoD we learn the Orcs wouldn't have done a single thing different even if Demon blood was out of the equation. Hell if the Horde ever won the faction war, every non-Horde race would be utterly annihilated.

Orcs have never sought contrition or forgiveness for their terrible actions in War1 and 2. They have never sacrificed anything to make it up to those they had wronged. Once more WoD proved that the old "Legion made us, that wasn't us, we were corrupted!" excuse is complete BS. All Orcs need for a good genocidal warmongering vicious rampage is a good speech.

The Horde has goodness in it, especially Tauran whom never wronged anyone. And Darkspear trolls for the same reason. Even the Undead can be forgiven since they are literally corrupted and twisted by evil magic. Their sins aren't their own doing to some extent. But Orcs? Orcs chose to be evil, they chose it freely and with a happy heart and outright enjoy it. Hell, Orcs are proud of it and long for the glory days of it.

They're a walking cancer, a pest. A problem that the Alliance took pity on after righteously stopping a Demon worshiping murder race from annihilating all life on the planet. And the thanks they are showed is a perpetual warmongering enemy that should have been justly put down after Warcraft 2.

what are you talking about the orc do what blizzard write them to do, at the end of first and second war the orcs were freed from internment camps and led by thrall on the other side of the planet far away from any human settlement, only because blizzard has enforced the alliance vs horde bs and always use the horde as the aggressor there is a conflict.
One proof of it was the split of many hardcore evil orcs clans who later we player are tasked to kill especially the blackrock clan during vanilla.

[Sign]

Lets stop for a moment and talk about alliance,this whole thread is spinning around justifying or accusing horde.What about knights in shining armors-it seems to me that alliance it self don't have any whatsoever bad moments in history no bad decisions or anything like that.I mean its just retarded and sincerely i don't care-writers wrote what they want(but golden shiny alliance good and dark not shiny horde bad is dull and empty storytelling).Personally i like horde more(gnomes and worgen chars in game makes me wanna throw up).Ps Anduin looks like Brad Pit while getting rdy to cum all over the screen(his fallen warriors) with his shiny glowing almighty spell he is such a good boy-king-leader.

[Trassk]

I never respected the Horde, they've always been the evil faction due to the Orcs presence and role in it.

They've been that since War1 and 2.

urh no, they Were that in 1 and 2, but by warcraft 3 they weren't that anymore, and you didn't seem to figure that out.

[Terongor]

Orc's are hardly "noble savages" but in reality the Orcs are the must evil race in the game.

After the first and the second war they not only never reconciled with the Humans they wronged, they got angry at humans for sparing their race from arguably the only just genocide that could ever exist, and then have declared perpetual war against a race of people who not only showed them mercy after an attempted the Orcs attempted genocide against them and as agents of the Legion all life on Azeroth but also as of WoD we learn the Orcs wouldn't have done a single thing different even if Demon blood was out of the equation. Hell if the Horde ever won the faction war, every non-Horde race would be utterly annihilated.

Orcs have never sought contrition or forgiveness for their terrible actions in War1 and 2. They have never sacrificed anything to make it up to those they had wronged. Once more WoD proved that the old "Legion made us, that wasn't us, we were corrupted!" excuse is complete BS. All Orcs need for a good genocidal warmongering vicious rampage is a good speech.

The Horde has goodness in it, especially Tauran whom never wronged anyone. And Darkspear trolls for the same reason. Even the Undead can be forgiven since they are literally corrupted and twisted by evil magic. Their sins aren't their own doing to some extent. But Orcs? Orcs chose to be evil, they chose it freely and with a happy heart and outright enjoy it. Hell, Orcs are proud of it and long for the glory days of it.

They're a walking cancer, a pest. A problem that the Alliance took pity on after righteously stopping a Demon worshiping murder race from annihilating all life on the planet. And the thanks they are showed is a perpetual warmongering enemy that should have been justly put down after Warcraft 2.

Also most clans that are reponsible for first and second wars are wiped out. Blackrock- gone bleeding hollow-gone (expect the mag'ars) twilights hammer- multirace cult, dragonmaw they are like the smallest part of the horde and they where mostly an ally to garrosh. Blacktoothgrind-gone. Stormreaver-gone. Why should clans which where not a part of those things do anything? There is few blackrock remnants in the horde yes but they are not that numerous. Orchiss part of the horde is madely most of frostwolf, warsong, some shattered hand, few blackrock, dragonmaw remnants.

Most of those clans came to azeroth first time on BtDP on which only bonechewer, lightnings blade an DK actually invaded some parts to steal artifacts. Warsong defended the darl portal. Most of orcs in the horde didn't even partake in w1 and w2.

So why they should be sorry on what they didn't do. Also most blackrocks sided with Garrosh so they are even smaller portion. Its the same thing as to blame whole humanity on what blackmoore tried to do or what Garithos did to Kael by trying to have him killed. On second note Alliance blamed clans who remained on Draenor what other clans did how that is not racist? They look the same kill them like the rest ������

They just took few items scepter of sargeras which didn't evrn belong to them, Alterac stole book of medivh (which alliance stole from medivh) and after that they sold it to DK's which is not hordes fault that it was stolen and eye of dalaran was stolen by horde but Alliance got it pack and they stole skull of gul'dan from the horde. Even the same alliance member stole the skull who stole a book from medivh. So because of few robberies alliance tryis to kill clans who didn't try to kill them.

By the way Alliance hunted frostwolf and warsong for years which didn't try to wipe them out or conquer the planet. They just aimed to live in peace and they had done nothing to them still where hunted, humans showed how they all are like Garithos in racism.

[Zeraiya]

I preferred Anduin in the cinematic over Sylvanas, her "For the Horde" was a little cringe, especially since she's never given two shits about anyone other than her own people (On a good day)

True, I can understand your opinion. Personally, I found her moment in the cinematic - with the moment of inflection, more like a realisation of understanding her place in the Horde. Understanding what the Horde is, particularly what it means to the Orcs, Trolls and Taurens, and shouting their war cry, almost like understanding where she needs to fit with them now. If she wants to be their leader, and get their respect, she needs to shout a warcry just like the rest of them. I loved it, but can get why others would see it as a weird show.

[DeicideUH]

Also most clans that are reponsible for first and second wars are wiped out.

Yeah, but their legacy leaves on. Orcs named their cities and places in homage to the old warmongers: Orgrimmar, Bladefist Bay, a city named Kargath, their intelligence service is the Shattered Hand.

I liked Thrall, I thought the Horde was going the right direction in Warcraft 3. But comes WoW, it stopped evolving. The first few years, yes, we saw Thrall trying, but he made the new orc culture revolve around revering the orcs that warred against the humans and blaming humans for all their problems. Thrall may have been diplomatic and level-headed, but he didn't foster those qualities on his people. He avoids the mistakes of the old Horde while making the leaders of the old Horde great heroes. He chose to settle in a rugged land like Durotar for penance for the old crimes, but to the orcs they were just being punished because their heroes lost a war.

I thought Vol'jin's ascension as Warchief would bring the Horde back to a good path, but then Blizzard just killed him and put the worst person possible as Warchief. Sylvanas has the potential to be far worst than Garrosh, because, unlike him, she's manipulative and knows how to make people do her bidding without forcing them.

I really really hope the Thrall/Vol'jin storyline in BfA leads to something good. But, before that plot bears results, the Horde will probably sink to a very dark place first.